WW XXXIII - Other Minds and Hands

[Rikae]

And to think I feared the game was unbalanced in favor of the ordos!
Both sides put up a valient fight; it could have gone either way today. Very exciting to watch as a mod!
I'm happy to answer any questions now.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I'm happy to answer any questions now.

Did you make SpM the spirit of Peter Jackson on purpose?

[Rikae]

I had been planning to make a cobbler/seer that was Peter Jackson before SPaM posted his role, actually.

When he did, I thought - hey, why not hide the cobbler in plain sight...

[Volo]

I knew I knew I knew I knew!! Damn.

You were the best wolves I've ever seen! Congrats!

Not to mention that this was my favourite game! Thanks Rikae!

A bit of cheating here and there, for which I myself too have to appologise. Sorry.

[Volo]

Oh, and if the riddle was about Di, it was wrong. Diamonds don't glitter, they shine! Make-up glitters.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

But Diamond was in charge of wigs and hairpieces, not makeup...

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Volo

Oh, and if the riddle was about Di, it was wrong. Diamonds don't glitter, they shine! Make-up glitters.

I associated the false hairpieces with the riddle - the riddle was, after all, about some kind of falseness.
...only after I had died, of course.

[Anguirel]

God I feel thick...well done Diamond and Shasta.

My worst performance since XIII, surely! Ah, I should have quit while I was ahead. Don't mix werewolf and exams, kiddies...

[Brinniel]

Yay, we won! *high-fives (or is it...high-paws) fellow wolves*

Okay, I'm going to find some good quotes from our PMs because I know whenever I'm an ordinary, I enjoy reading the wolves' discussions...

[Macalaure]

Where is Volo, that young rascal who tricked me! Let justice be done upon him!

This was a great game. The plotting, the sneakiness at Day, the desperate last stand with Saucepan... hilarious! Gúthwinë for the Wolves! Andúril for the cobblers!

What were your dreams, Saucepan? Whom did you figure out to be a wolf and when?

It's a little disappointing that the game turned out to be so silent on the last Day. Too many noisy players lynched or killed, too much RL-interference... bad luck.

I wonder why nobody ever analysed my posts after my death?


Oh, and: Won! Won! Wohoooooown!

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I wonder why nobody ever analysed my posts after my death?

I wondered that too, but decided not to look a gift horse in the mouth.

Oh, and: Won! Won! Wohoooooown!

[Diamond18]

I erased all of the Wolf PM's from when Mac and Brinn were alive, but I still have the ones between Shasta and I.

Night... er, whatever. Just after Mac died.

Originally Posted by Shasta

Well, we lost Mac, but Volo was bluffing about his second life, so we don't have to worry about a Seer.

Hmm... I'm thinking we should definately go after Aganzir or Legate tonight, preferably the latter as he's louder. I'll wait a while to see if you say anything, xD

Originally Posted by Diamond

I was positively giddy with joy to see Volo dead. I could have saved Mac had I shown up in time to retract my vote and switch it to Volo at the last minute, but I had a very bad morning and couldn't get to the library in time. But maybe that's for the best, as that action would surely have marked me a wolf in everyone's eyes.

I'm also thinking Agnazir or Legate, but I want to read over the thread first to see what's wot. SPM was making Legate into a bit of a scapegoat so it might be nice to keep him... however I believe SPM's argument was somewhat reliant on Volo's guilt. Anyway, probably yes to Legate but I'll see what I think once I've read the thread.

*drinks a toast to Volo's blood... possibly consisting of Volo's blood*

~ Diamond ~

Originally Posted by Diamond

Let's kill Legate.

I'm a little disheartened at how many people we still have to kill, considering how much suspicion we're under (you most especially!) but we'll see how toMorrow goes. Luckily Gil and Ang look pretty guilty what with their voting. Maybe we can work a double lynch in our favor, who knows.

I kinda wish I'd saved Mac, even if it would have made me look very guilty.

I'll be online for another hour and then I won't be back till after the next Day starts, so unless I hear from you if the next hour I'll send Rikae the death pick before I leave.

And so I sent this to Rikae:

Originally Posted by Diamond

We have decided to drink the blood of Legate tonight. May his screams be legendary and his dying pains the stuff of nightmares.

[Brinniel]

My last Night was the best one...

I don't have Di's PM, but I remember she was pretty happy over lynching Boro.

Originally Posted by Brinn

I admit that once the deadline hit, I burst out laughing. It just worked so wonderfully!

Anyways, I think we've managed to confuse the village quite a bit, which makes me happy, of course.

Originally Posted by Mac

They lynched Boromir!!

They - lynched - Boromir!!!!


...and almost without any effort from our side!


I love this village!


Brilliant timing, Diamond!

I still am.
I think we're having a legitimate shot at winning with little casualties now.

So...we celebrated.

And then to business:

Originally Posted by Shasta

As to who we kill, how about Rune or Anguirel?

Originally Posted by Di

I'm a little loathe to kill Ang because he's so entertaining and suspicious AND he strongly suspects Brinniel.

On the other hand, I got the sneaky feeling that he is, if not the Seer, perhaps a Gifted of some sort. Which would make him tasty eats.... Also, the village may consider killing him too bold a move for Brinniel. A little bluffing is nice.

Still... I would miss him in the game. Hrmmm. Let's not kill Ang unless no one else seems a better candidate.

I'm not sure about Rune. I'll have to do a little more reading of the thread.

Originally Posted by Di

I am in favor of killing Lommy. She suspects Mac vaguely but not anything I think to be worried about... mainly she's not one to have garnered much suspicion herself so like Mith is a fairly safe kill. I believe that Kath is also a good one to consider.

Originally Posted by Brinn

Okay, I would really like to catch a Gifted toNight, but that may be really difficult. We don't know how many unknown Gifteds are out there or even whether they are the traditional roles we know about or not.

Anyways, here's some thought on our Innocents:

xyzzy: If he doesn't show up tomorrow, he'll be mod-killed as well, so I think we should definitely leave him alone.

Legate: Hard to say...could be a Gifted, but I think he's capturing too much attention to be one. I wouldn't kill him toNight for various reasons.

Gil-Galad: Back to his old style, I see. I doubt he's a Gifted and I definitely don't think he would be a Seer. He has had made little effect in the game considering he hasn't even voted yet.

Aganzir: I don't get a Gifted vibe from her either, but I could be wrong. Anyways, I'm hoping some pressure will be placed on her by the village after her vote yesterDay. I don't think it's a good idea to kill her toNight.

Lommy: Hard to say since she hasn't been around much. I don't know if she's a Gifted, but I doubt she's a Seer. She would be a good kill toNight if we don't want to leave tracks again, but not if we want to kill a Gifted.

Kath: I really have no idea about her...could go either way.

Anguirel: I think there's a chance he could be a Gifted, but he's really tough to figure out. He could be dangerous to have stick around and I would like to see him die soon, but toNight...I'm not so sure. And yes, it's mostly because he suspects me and I would like to save my neck and for once make it past Day 3, thank you very much. I'm too scared to kill him...could cause a lot of problems.

Rune: I've been thinking a lot about this, and have come to the idea that he could quite possibly be our Seer. He has suspected Mac since Day 1 and was big on voting for him, before retracting to save his own neck. He has gotten a lot of suspicion, which is typical for a Seer. Also, I know he has been frustrated for some time for not ever having a Gifted roled, and perhaps Rikae decided it would be nice to give it to him...I don't know. But the problem is, if we decide to kill him and he turns out to be an ordo, that could gain a lot of suspicion towards Mac and me considering he did suspect us and us him. But then, if he is the Seer and we don't kill him, considering he was under a lot pressure yesterDay and if that pressure continues, he could end up revealing his role. And if he did reveal himself as the Seer toMorrow, there's a good chance I think he's already dreamt of Mac, and if not, he will, and if he has, there's a good chance he would dream of me toNight, and if that happens, we'd be completely screwed. Oh boy...I'm really stuck here.

Originally Posted by Mac

Whom to kill, whom to kill? I mainly agree with what Brinniel already said.

Legate of Amon Lanc ~ too wacky theories to be seer, suspected by many, creates distraction, SPM's favourite toy => let him live

Xyzzy ~ leaves no tracks, but sooner or later people will have to deal with him, I can hardly imagine him as a gifted => let him live

Thinlómien ~ not suspected by others, not seriously suspicious of us => good opportunity to kill a dangerous player

Anguirel ~ gifted maybe, but I don't see him as a seer, threat to Brinniel, but I'm not sure how persevering he will be with this suspicion => we should only kill him if we find no one better

Kath ~ not suspected a lot, not suspicious of us => good opportunity to get rid of a truly excellent player

Gil-Galad ~ no intelligent opinion => if we can't find someone better we can kill him

Aganzir ~ regarded suspicious by some, no immediate threat to us, nothing giftedlike in my view => let her live

Rune ~

What Brinniel said.

He might be a seer who has dreamt of me. Also keep in mind that we all are quite inexperienced wolves, so it's possible Rikae made him (never been gifted) into a seer.
If he isn't the seer, then killing him will look like the wolves were afraid of him and that will put a lot of pressure on Brinn and me.
He is also suspected by quite a few

=> Let him live.
I think we will fare better by trying to lynch him than by killing him. This will also be much more fun! The problem is, that he will get a chance to dream of Brinniel.
We are in a good position to put pressure on him tomorrow, maybe forcing him to reveal whether he is the seer.
If that happens, he must have dreamt of me and will declare me a wolf. I will then make a counter-claim of being the seer myself and having dreamt of Rune (saying that was the reason I've been putting the pressure on him). We'll see if I can get through with that. If we kill him and he's the seer, I will be dead anyway.

Risks of this plan:
What if we can't manage to get him into serious trouble?
What if he dreamt of Brinniel tonight?

But then again:
What if he's protected tonight? It's quite possible the ranger is as smart as we are.
A few will interpret the situation exactly the right way, and then we're really screwed because we can't even lynch Rune anymore.

Originally Posted by Brinn

I didn't think of this earlier, but it is true. All suspicion would turn to you. Of course, Rune did suspect me as well, so I could become suspicious as well, though I wouldn't be at as much risk as you.

Hmm...if we do have to resort to this, indeed it could help buy us time, that is, if the village chooses to lynch Rune. Then they would discover he was telling the truth, we would have a night to kill someone before the village killed off Mac. Now if I am dreamt of and revealed by Rune along with Mac, I don't think they could lynch us both in one Day (I mean, they could attempt a double lynch, but we would be able to do everything in our power to prevent that, even if it meant a self-vote). Then there would be another night and another kill before I would be lynched. And even with two wolves gone, we could still have a shot of winning.

Anyways, I'm thinking that whether he is an ordo or a Seer, killing Rune will have bad results. And as Mac mentioned, there's a chance a Ranger could protect him, and then the results would just prove disasterous. Leaving him alive is risky as well, but at least we would have a shot. I'm just really hoping we're very wrong in these thoughts, and Rune is just an ordinary...

Yeah, we were pretty sure that Rune was the Seer. I must admit, I really wanted to kill him, but either way, we knew it'd be dangerous.

Next:

Originally Posted by Brinn

So, if not Rune, who do we kill? I'm thinking Kath or Lommy are our best candidates. Neither would leave tracks, and I'm hoping one might be Gifted, though perhaps that doesn't even matter anymore. Once again, we're not even sure what kind of Gifteds we have to watch out for.

Kath: Rune has been her main suspect for the entire game. In fact, I think she helped start the bandwagon against him. By killing her, suspicion could be increased on Rune. She thinks Shasta is innocent, though I can't recall if she's mentioned anything about Mac, Di, and me.

Lommy: While she pointed out some suspicions of Mac, she ended up voting for xyzzy. Killing her may lead some tracks back to Mac, but it probably wouldn't be anything obvious enough to get him lynched on that alone.

At this point, I think I would rather kill Kath of the two.

Originally Posted by Mac

Two more thoughts on them:

Kath was very suspicious of Rune. If she keeps this suspicion up, she will be quite valuable to us.

Lommy is a little strange. She's extremely passive. It's almost like she's holding up a sign saying: "Kill me! I will leave no tracks!". Does she actually want to be killed by us? A hunter?

Given the potential helpfulness of Kath, I would rather take the risk of Lommy.

Originally Posted by Brinn

Do you really think she could be a hunter? If so, killing her could be quite dangerous. I remember Lommy the last time she was a hunter, and she was spot on almost everyday. If she is the hunter, there's a good chance it would mean sacrificing one of us, and we can't afford to lose one of us toNight with the whole Rune situation that could possibly come toMorrow.

In the end, we decided to kill Lommy. I admit, I was half expecting that one of us would be dead when Day 3 arrived. Boy, was I relieved to find out she was a Ranger/Assassin...and we weren't dead.

Killing Lommy and not Rune meant my neck, but I have a feeling that if we had killed Rune instead, it would've been Mac's neck. Either way, there would've been a sacrifice. And in the end, I suppose Lommy was the best choice.

When it comes to surviving WW, I'm doomed. Will I ever break this 3 Day curse?

Honestly, I expected to get lynched sometime in the game...I predicted if we won, it would be because of Di and Shasta. I just hate that I never get to defend myself...if I go down, I want to go down with a fight. And if I had been there, I would've probably claimed myself as the Hunter or Hunter/Seer. I'm not sure that would've worked, but at least I would've had a fighting chance... Oh well, that's just how things are, and I accept it.

Twice I've been lynched and both times it is because of you, Rune. Seriously...first you decapitate me, then you shoot me. If you want me to like you, you better stop killing me.

[Volo]

I seem to have avoided your kill-lists alltogether

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

We already know two roles: Volo's and SPM's. Rikae said there would probably be three hidden Gifted roles, but I'm almost certain there are more than that. Do you guys think we have a Seer, Ranger, and Hunter hidden among the Innocents? Five Gifted is a lot, but possible. Also, seeing the uniqueness of the other two roles we know about, I think there's a good chance that there won't be just any traditional Seer, Ranger, or Hunter...

Originally Posted by Mac

I have to admit that I was unable to make out any gifted-ish hints by anybody (except Volo, of course). There could be anything, I'm afraid.

So we decided quickly not to go after Gifteds. Volo, you really fooled us wolves!

Originally Posted by Mac

I agree that there is no point in killing Durelin or Volo.

I think there is little sense in killing Boro, Gil or xyzzy. I'm not in the mood for such an un-bold kill.

This leaves me with: Legate, Mith, Lommy, Ang, Kath, Aganzir, Rune

Legate: was widely suspected today, but given Six's innocence, he will be safer tomorrow. He said he is a little suspicious of Kath, so I'm optimistic he will give her a closer look tomorrow. He's suspicious of Brinn and me, and I fear that he is going to increase his pressure on Brinn in the mid-distant future.
I would let him live, for the moment.

Mithalwen: was somewhat suspicious of me, but not too much. Hard to predict whether she will in- or decrease it tomorrow. Mith managed to survive in all of her last three games, so we can kill her with a very good conscience.
She's a good option for me.

Lommy: suspects me a little and will increase it out of sheer habit. Did I read somewhere that she will be away for Day Two?
I'm not too fond of killing her.

Anguirel: is suspected by some, while his own suspicions are off. He will hopefully mix things up and keep a few people from looking for wolves elsewhere.
I would let him live.

Kath: is suspicious of me and will probably be persistent in it. She was one of very few who saw through me in the only game I was a real baddie once. I'm scared of her, but I fear people might look towards me if we kill her.
I'm not too fond of killing her.

Aganzir: thinks Brinn innocent. She's off the track so far, but this might change.
I don't feel good about killing her right now.

Rune: is suspicious of me, but I think this might decrease once he has other things to look at.
I think it's a bad idea to lynch him.

Originally Posted by Brinn

Right now, I'm going to say Durelin, Volo, xyzzy, Gil, Boromir, Legate, Rune, and Ang should definitely be out of the picture for ToNight.

I agree that Kath and Lommy probably should be left alone as well.

Aganzir could be a good kill, but then again, I'm not sure if I want to kill off someone who is (for now) mistakenly on my side...it could work to our advantage.

I'm all for killing Mithalwen- She appears to be quite innocent to most of the others, and I think by killing her, no obvious tracks will be led back to us. (I'm also secretly hoping she's a Gifted, but I have no idea). Anyways, I do agree she's our best choice, but let us see what Di and Shasta have to say..

Yeah, sorry Mithalwen...

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Where is Volo, that young rascal who tricked me! Let justice be done upon him!

And we wants to sstrange you! How did you manage that! Just how did you manage that!

Originally Posted by Shasta

Hmm... I'm thinking we should definately go after Aganzir or Legate tonight, preferably the latter as he's louder. I'll wait a while to see if you say anything, xD

That's exactly what I hoped for!