WW XXXIII - Other Minds and Hands

[Anguirel]

Boro is now on his usual form, which is good, though I don't think he was ever that much off it (despite Gil-Galad's damning verdict...)

There seems to be a lot of viciousness in this game. I know that sounds deeply feeble, but really, rarely have I encountered a village where the vibes are so dark.

Much of the tension permeates from Saruman. Sauce observed he seemed to know too much about Sixth, but this need not necessarily point to guilt. I have a tendency myself to be pessimistic whenever most lynchs, but especially compromise-lynchs like that one, are enacted. So far as that goes, I don't suspect Saruman particularly. But his forceful voice and obsessive opinions is creating almost as much division as an extra werewolf. It is also true that I could readily see him doing in my wife, who he had various spats with but also fought shy of confronting directly (unlike his approach vis-a-vis me).

So, yes...could still go either way on that one.

Lommy is keeping her nose very clean, but that could be a time issue.

A few candidates are attracting most of the attention today...we should really try casting the net wider. Say, Durelin, for instance. I haven't thought about her once yet, and that's not a good sign...

A lot of you have been sniffing around Mac, but no votes materialised. Is he suspicious, or the victim of a tentative and indecisive wolf intrigue, I wonder? I'll look at his posting when I next have the time.

[Brinniel]

Alright, I'm not going to stay up terribly late trying to analyze everyone right now. I think I'd rather go to bed early (ha, like 3am is early) and get up early when this thread is more active. Curse these time zones, they can be such a nuisance at times...

Back to the subject, I will take a closer look at others in the morning, but for now, I would like to take a look at yesterDay's prime suspects (other than Sixth, of course): Anguirel and Legate

So far toDay, my suspicions of Legate have not changed:

One thing I've noticed is that he's been a bit jumpy and overly-defensive towards those who have accused him. Partly I get this feeling from words, but mostly from tone. Of course, tone can be read quite differently when it's in writing, so perhaps I'm just reading the signals wrong and he is not actually as upset as he seems to be, but nevertheless, it's the feeling I have.

Though, Boromir has brought one thing to attention that does raise some alarms for me:

Originally Posted by Boromir

Legate made a strange comment at the end of voting yesterday that didn't sit right with me:

And in the same post:

I mean we all know that a double-lynch only helps the wolves, and it's good to be reminded 'hey lets avoid a double-lynch, this might happen if we mess up.' But this just seems too forced and and quite frankly fake. It's like Legate is trying to look innocent by reminding us all we don't want a double-lynch (duh ), but the manner he does it (the all caps and twice in the same post) looks fake and like he's trying too hard to look innocent.

Now, the mentioning of the double-lynch itself doesn't alarm me, I mean it is something I admit I said myself, although it was in a bit of a different manner. But then Legate goes about accusing me of being wolfish for saying something he said himself first. I'm not sure what exactly to think on this, but it certainly makes me uneasy...

On Anguirel:

I honestly have to say I'm confused on what to think of him. I don't see anything strange about his vote for Sixth. He did it to save himself from a lynch, as he explains in post #99, which is something anyone would do, wolf or innocent. The main thing that catches my attention is that he gained so much suspicion yesterDay, and perhaps in the morning I will better examine this. I've never played with Ang until now, so I'm not terribly aware of his style, but I've heard that he can be quite dangerous as a wolf, so while he doesn't raise any huge alarms for me yet, indeed I will be careful not to disregard him.

If there is a wolf among these two players, I do think it would be only one. Ang and Legate have been at each other since Day 1, which is too risky to be wolf-on-wolf, in my opinion.

Okay, it's getting late. I'm off to bed now. I'll try to be back around three hours before the deadline.

[Boromir88]

Well, I'm afraid like yesterday, all the action today will take place after I have to vote. Hmm...two posts, and none of my opinions have changed. Brinniel is still innocent and Ang I have no clue...could be anything.

It's difficult to pull the platform on Legate. He has said a lot of strange and odd things, but it doesn't seem very wolfish-Legate like. If you know what I mean. Legate was more careful and friendly the one time I knew he was a wolf. Maybe since that didn't work too well for him he wanted to try a different strategy? I don't know, but it just seems like Legate is too careless (in not monitoring what he says) to be a wolf.

Bah, I really have no clue, it must be done:

++Legate

[Boromir88]

Oh and a note about Durelin, Ang, if Durelin doesn't show up to post or vote today...my understanding is she mysteriously disappears for good. Quite a shame really, as if I ever suddenly get some strong urge to burn myself (ya like that will ever happen ) I can't. You think I'm going to trust some untrained orc to handle the burning of my noble arse? Pah, ya right. Hey orc, fetch me some cherries.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I stated I didn't want a double-lynch, because I honestly didn't want one...and I'm sure everyone (except for the wolves, I suppose) was thinking this as well, I guess I just had to be the stupid one to state it aloud.

Well, the point was, that you said you didn't want a double-lynch and at the same time performed an action that could cause a double-lynch. I understand if you wanted to vote for me, but voting for Six (even though it wasn't right) would have been much better, safer in the meaning of safer for the community. On that I now feel okay because of your explanation in the rest of your post:

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Also, I was there until the deadline with one retraction at hand...I was ready to change my vote to Sixth if it looked like a double lynch might occur. But that didn't happen, therefore I didn't change my vote.

Originally Posted by SpM

but your continuing attempts to re-write the opening skirmishes makes you look far worse in my eyes.

(sarcastic tone) No, SpM, it's not me bringing it back. It's you, because everyone asks me about it five million times and I five million times answer the same thing.

Also, when you mention it, the "nothing-saying" of Ang's posts is not the main point of my suspicions of him, there's quite much more of it. I'm going to re-investigate Ang's case, because he seems more "normal" at the later time, though I am still very aware of that might be a retreating move from a wolf, which I would really not like to experience and thus letting a wolf slip out of the spotlight.

Now something on Boro. That he appeared here and spoke in a more active way, as I thought his behavior is, is nice. But. There is something fishy and now I am actually thinking of a connection between SpM and Boro. When someone says "these three are most vocal, and Ang seems most suspicious, where Legate does this and this and SpM does this and this but I think he's actually innocent" (or that is, from my point, the message of it), then such a statement has several impacts: a) someone who reads it might get the feeling that Ang is suspicious, b) someone who reads it might get the feeling that I am suspicious, but what if Boro does not pay enough attention to me, putting me on the second place? Result: the person focuses either on Ang or me. Of course not on SpM. Boro also mentions him, but says that it's not an important matter, and when the person looks at it, he might say "Well, Boromir speaks reasonable, of course he does, so let's leave SpM for now."

Originally Posted by Anguirel

A few candidates are attracting most of the attention today...we should really try casting the net wider. Say, Durelin, for instance. I haven't thought about her once yet, and that's not a good sign...

Seriously, while there is the possibility that the wolves might be hiding among the quiet ones (cf. what I said about it earlier), waiting for us vocal ones to kill each other, I don't think there wouldn't be at least one among the vocal ones. Even if it were not, these are just shots in the dark until we know for sure that all of us "vocal" are innocent. Evidence from the quiet ones' posts (if any) is quite feeble evidence. Realizing this, I think it's best to drop this until something happens that brings some more light on the innocents, or shows the "vocal" into being innocent.

EDIT: x-ed with these after Anguirel (Brinn, Boro...)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Brinniel about my "do not double-lynch": well, now you hopefully can understand it (my post above). Also, as you can guess from the capital letters, it was pretty much a post written in affect - I just learned then that deadline is upon us and I saw the ghost of double-lynch upon us, so I was "shouting" the (in my opinion, important, as I know these "last-time votes") warning of checking if you are not x-voting with someone. Which is another important thing to bear in mind even for the next days, I think.

Boromir: Now this is really rising alarms. Again, cf. above: He thinks Ang the most suspicious of all three of us, and now he votes for me. Also, the end of his post where he said this, he says Ang looks the most wolvish, but then at the end says he doesn't know.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

And of those 3 Ang looks the most wolvish and Sauce looks the most innocent.

The same post:

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Ang, I really can't get a hold on, and I know as long as we are both around that isn't going to change. I have a funny feeling about him...as I really always do actually. Ang is one of the toughest players, that I know I will never figure out because he is the exact same as an innocent or a wolf.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I have done a little Anguirelysis and I am announcing hereby that I am dropping all my earlier accuses. Should I checked him yesterday (or over the Night), this might have saved some confusion, but what happened, happened. There were not his toDay's posts at that time yet, anyway, and they add their own, quite a large bit, to cause me drop my suspicions.

Now when I already was in it, for peace of mind I started checking other people:

Mac. His two first posts are quite harsh, but we got past it before. In his third post, he even explains it, and I feel it quite innocentish. The post itself looks very good.

Then he does say some things on me, which could be from an innocent's point of view, because he doesn't seem to be attempting to raise things against me, rather he's (if I exaggerate it, of course he is not actually) defending me, or calming it down. Of course, there was pretty much suspicion on me at that time already, so if I ended lynched innocent, then this would serve Mac as good cover "this innocent's blood is not on my hands". But again, that's probably overcombinating it.

Then he voted for Six, which I sort of didn't like, as I said earlier. Beside SpM's, as I mentioned somewhere before (and Volo's, but he is innocent, or so I believe), this was another not much nice vote for Six. He also tied him with Ang in the lead (which was not a problem at that time yet, and also he later said he could change his vote to me if necessary). Today, he just posted that analysis about Mithalwen. Hey, I didn't catch the moment where he said he suspected her? The only moment he mentioned her was in the first post where he mentioned her at the same point as me, and then he was responding to her. Or did I forget anything?
If any of Mac's post, this would be giving bad feeling to me, but that's just because, as some people who played with me already know, I don't like and a priori am suspicious on people who post summaries of any kind, because it's an easy job a wolf has to do anyway, and then he can just post it, adding some imagined stuff concerning him and his comrades... But that's in no way point for accusing, and you can't actually get much from it unless it contradicts anything.

So in general: Mac seems more or less okay. Others coming shortly. Maybe.

[Volo]

It might be evil to say, but a lot of the stuff happening is (or can be thought of) happening around Aganzir.

I'll continue going through toDay's Aganzir talk:

#121 Aganzir, first post to the subject. Even three things that raise alarms. (Either Aganzir's style is after mine, or then she's a wolf.) We'll come back to them later.

#128 Anguirel. Mentions Aganzir's post's first alarm raising part. Gloating is something very easily done, and often noticed. Says "he" of Aganzir, which could be a trick.

#132 Aganzir The most alarming post so far.

#133 Legate Pretty much just mentions Aganzir and leaves it at that. Though the way he put it is a bit suspicious: A slight defence and some undescribably suspicion.

#135 Volo Return to post #132. I point out the two things that are a usual newbie-wolf mistake (As I very well know. Fenris Wolf, grrau.) in a joking manner.

#137 Aganzir What's so bad here is that she takes the on the in-character manner I set for her.

#147 SPM Says, like I did before, that Aganzir makes the usual mistakes, but wants to wait. This too makes a wolf-wolf connection between the two.

So: Aganzir has made close to none sense in her posts, except for self-defence of which there is plenty. Many posts: only self-defence and joking. The only part of her that doesn't make me want to lynch her is that she's who she is.

In her preveous game she was very calm, very very suprisingly calm. Where's the calmness now? Ok, she's still calm in her words, but not in the meaning.

At first I found her more like a Gifted, then like a Cobbler, now like a Wolf, what next?

I'll vote for her if nothing suprising happens.


EDIT: Xd with Legate and Mac.