WW XXXIII - Other Minds and Hands

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

yeiks! !! Good thing I got my brake moved. . .otherwise I would not have been here before the deadline.

this is a weird keyboard so there might be som odd mistakes in this post.

--Mac

++Boro

[Brinniel]

Okay, though I do suspect Legate still, I really do feel better about him today than I did before. I would like him to stick around for one day, and I'd hate to be the one to seal his fate just when I'm starting to have second-thoughts about him.

Boromir I still don't think is guilty, so I won't vote him.

And looking at his posts, Rune has most recently been the one to alarm me.

And I certainly won't pick up any new candidates.

++Rune

It may end up being a random lynch, but at least it won't be a double...

[Macalaure]

I don't see what you're finding suspicious about Boromir.

Fools.

[Volo]

Should we try a Dubble Lynch?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Shasta: ++Legate (Legate-1)
SpM: ++Legate (Legate-2)
Boro: ++Legate (Legate-3)
Lommy: ++xyzzy (Legate-3; xyzzy-1)
Volo: ++Boro (Legate-3; xyzzy-1; Boro-1)
Anguirel: ++Brinniel (Legate-3; xyzzy-1; Boro-1; Brinniel-1)
Rune son of Bjarne: ++Macalaure (Legate-3; xyzzy-1; Boro-1; Brinniel-1; Mac-1)
Kath: ++Rune (Legate-3; xyzzy-1; Boro-1; Brinniel-1; Mac-1; Rune-1)
Legate of Amon Lanc: ++Boro (Legate-3; Boro-2; xyzzy-1; Brinniel-1; Mac-1; Rune-1)
Macalaure: ++Rune (Legate-3; Boro-2; Rune-2; xyzzy-1; Brinniel-1; Mac-1)
Aganzir: ++Boro (Legate-3; Boro-3; Rune-2; xyzzy-1; Brinniel-1; Mac-1)
Di: ++Boro (Boro-4; Legate-3; Rune-2; xyzzy-1; Brinniel-1; Mac-1)
Rune: --Mac; ++Boro (Boro-5; Legate-3; Rune-2; xyzzy-1; Brinniel-1)
Brinniel: ++Rune (Boro-5; Legate-3; Rune-3; xyzzy-1; Brinniel-1)

[Brinniel]

Oh...well I just crossed over a bunch of posts...

I guess it won't make a difference now.

I could retract and vote Legate, but I think he's up by two now.

EDIT: and by "he" I meant Boromir, sorry if that confused anyone...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

the deadline is now right_

[Rikae]

On Day 2 of filming, the mood among the cast and crew was grim. Suspicion was cast on almost everyone; but in the end, Saruman was the least trusted; and the Downers gathered round him where he stood on the studio roof, hatred and fear in their eyes.

“Will you have peace with me, and all the aid that my knowledge, founded in long years, can bring? Shall we make our councils together against evil days?” asked Legate, in a last desperate attempt to save himself.

“So would the trapped wolf speak to the hounds, if he could! What aid can he give you, forsooth? All he desires is to escape from his plight!” retorted Boromir.

But Saruman's voice worked its magic on the others. The mob suddenly turned on Boromir. Durelin doused him in gasoline and set him alight...

...Boromir turned and ran 1000 yards down the length of the studio roof, then turned and raced back again, by now completely clothed in flame. He turned a third time and sprinted back again, showing no signs of slowing. Some of the Downers could not refrain from cheering as he completed a final lap, and set the record for the first mile run in under three minutes while in flames. Finally, he plummeted off the end of the roof.

The Downers shuffled reluctantly to the edge and peered over...

....to find that Boromir88's charred and smoldering corpse was still quite human.

Day 2 is over. Everyone mourn in silence. Wolves may PM. Send your picks by an hour before deadline tomorrow, please.

The Cast and Crew

Pushing up daisies:

Rikae(Mod)–CG Animator, Rendered and Lighted on Night1
The Sixth Wizard(Ordo)–Protester against Dwarven Comic Relief, Buried in Skulls on Day1
Mithalwen(Ordo)–Galadriel, Illuminated...(Electrocuted) on Night2
Boromir88 (Ordo)-Denethor, Burnt alive on Day2

Not pushing up daises:

Volo - Gollum
Legate of Amon Lanc - Sound Master/Saruman
Macalaure - The 7th orc in the 3rd row
Shastanis Althreduin - Legolas' stunt double
Durelin - Special Effects Pyrotechnician
The Saucepan Man- Set Catering Manager
Xyzzy - Young Fanboy
Brinniel- Wacky Foley Artist
Thinlómien- Non-Winged Balrog
Anguirel- Celeborn
Kath - Make-up Artist
Gil-Galad - Zombie-Gil-Galad
Aganzir - Smeagol
Rune -Tolkien geek who is estatic about being an Elf extra
Diamond18 - Lady in charge of Wigs and all other False Hairpieces

[Rikae]

Durelin was out of fireworks for the party scene. In desperation, she broke into the local Pyrotechnics-R-Us after closing time and "borrowed" the requisite supplies. Sadly, she hadn't kept informed about the latest recalls...

...an hour later, the Downers were greeted by a spectacular sight.

"It's a bird!"

"It's a dragon!"

....Durelin circled over the heads of the prostrate cast and crew three times, then turned a somersault and burst over "Bywater" with a deafening explosion.

"That's the signal for supper!" quipped SPM.

Later that night, Lommy prepared to leaver for her night job. She put on her attractive ill-fitting polyester uniform, but left her knife in the trailer. Some other night perhaps she would use it, but tonight she would protect, not kill, one of her fellow downers. The security guard punched in and took up her post in front of one of the trailers...but ere long, she heard a rustling in the bushes behind her.

One balrog may be a match for four Peter Jackson style wargs, but one security guard isn't. While two held her down, the others stitched a pair of tattered batlike wings to her back. Ignoring her shrieks and curses, they dragged the newly winged Lommy to the cliff behind the studio and cast her over the edge.

The wings, though quite lovely, were not terribly effective.

When the 13 remaining members of the cast and crew discovered the wolves' handiwork in the morning, all of them wept openly...but five were gloating in their hearts.

Night 3 is over. Day 3 has begun! Wolves, stop PMing. Everybody talk.

Good luck!

The Cast and Crew

Bought a pine condo:

Rikae(Mod)–CG Animator, Rendered and Lighted on Night1
The Sixth Wizard(Ordo)–Protester against Dwarven Comic Relief, Buried in Skulls on Day1
Mithalwen(Ordo)–Galadriel, Illuminated...(Electrocuted) on Night2
Boromir88 (Ordo)-Denethor, Burnt alive on Day2
Durelin(Ordo)-Special Effects Pyrotechnician - Burst over Bywater on Night3
Thinlómien(Ranger/Assassin)- Non-Winged Balrog - Took a tumble off the cliff on Night3

Didn't:

Volo - Gollum
Legate of Amon Lanc - Sound Master/Saruman
Macalaure - The 7th orc in the 3rd row
Shastanis Althreduin - Legolas' stunt double
The Saucepan Man- Set Catering Manager
Xyzzy - Young Fanboy
Brinniel- Wacky Foley Artist
Anguirel- Celeborn
Kath - Make-up Artist
Gil-Galad - Zombie-Gil-Galad
Aganzir - Smeagol
Rune -Tolkien geek who is estatic about being an Elf extra
Diamond18 - Lady in charge of Wigs and all other False Hairpieces

[Volo]

Damn and double damn!

Sure looks bad. I hope we have a Seer or something, because we really need one!

Though I have some thoughts that are clear at this moment:

Shasta: ++Legate (Legate-1)
SpM: ++Legate (Legate-2)
Boro: ++Legate (Legate-3)
Lommy: ++xyzzy (Legate-3; xyzzy-1)
Volo: ++Boro (Legate-3; xyzzy-1; Boro-1)
Anguirel: ++Brinniel (Legate-3; xyzzy-1; Boro-1; Brinniel-1)
Rune: ++Mac (Legate-3; xyzzy-1; Boro-1; Brinniel-1; Mac-1)
Kath: ++Rune (Legate-3; xyzzy-1; Boro-1; Brinniel-1; Mac-1; Rune-1)
Legate: ++Boro (Legate-3; Boro-2; xyzzy-1; Brinniel-1; Mac-1; Rune-1)
Mac: ++Rune (Legate-3; Boro-2; Rune-2; xyzzy-1; Brinniel-1; Mac-1)
Aganzir: ++Boro (Legate-3; Boro-3; Rune-2; xyzzy-1; Brinniel-1; Mac-1)
Di: ++Boro (Boro-4; Legate-3; Rune-2; xyzzy-1; Brinniel-1; Mac-1)
Rune: --Mac; ++Boro (Boro-5; Legate-3; Rune-2; xyzzy-1; Brinniel-1)
Brinniel: ++Rune (Boro-5; Legate-3; Rune-3; xyzzy-1; Brinniel-1)

I now regret that I didn't have the guts to change my vote from Boro to Rune as I now pretty strongly suspect him.

If I'd have to toss a few names to call wolves, I'd toss Rune, Brinniel, Diamond and Shasta.

If I'd have to toss a few names to call innocent, I'd toss Legate, Aganzir, Anguirel and Gil-Galad.

Explaining: I found it strange that nobody used the chance to cause a double lynch, especially after I suggested it and the suspicions were so balanced. The wolves would have had much use of doing so, but they didn't. A reason could be a fellow wolf.

Of the two I'd go for Rune. And that brings a whole new figure into the field.

Brinniel's vote was a moderately safe vote for a friend. Looking at her earlier thoughts about Rune you'll probably see what I mean. I'm not 100% about this figure, but it looks the most probable.

The third one is harder, but I think it's Diamond. I've found her the suspiciously innocentish person here and her vote looks wierd. Though not wierd enough to say for sure. If she had suspected Rune she would have been far more suspicious with this figure. Because she just couldn't have voted Rune and caused a double lynch. And now that she didn't vote for Legate but even saved him, does speak for her. But I'm not lowering my guard!

The fourth one is pretty much a guess, but Shasta fits well into the overall figure with his vote for Legate.


I'm still thinking over and over.

Now to the innocent list:

Gil-Galad looks so much like the good ol' good Galad boy that I'm very sure that he's innocent.

I think I have misjudged Anguirel for now I see him innocent.

Just as Aganzir. I've gone through and decided I was much too rash there.

Legate's answer to my analysis of him pretty much convinced me of his innocense. I don't want to have him lynched!


:/

[Volo]

As we see from the narration, we have a cobbler or something nasty here. I'd put poor Mac into that part, again.

EDIT: Explaining:

Mac looks too confused for a wolf, but too confusing for the innocent Mac I know.

[The Saucepan Man]

Alas, it would appear that our Ranger/Assassin's apparent innocence was her downfall. I can’t see (and wouldn’t expect to see) any suggestion in her posts that she might be the Ranger, so I guess the Wolves just got lucky. She was unsuspected by most and her votes (for Sixth and Xyzzy) leave little trail. Other than these two, she outlined no firm suspicions, although she was slightly suspicious of Legate and Day 1 and Mac on Day 2.

It’s easy for me to say now, I suppose, but I cannot believe that you lot lynched Boro on such meagre evidence. He was, admittedly, acting slightly strange on Day 1, but he explained that and seemed far more engaged on Day 2.

Indeed, I cannot believe that you lot let that slippery fellow, Legate, escape from the noose. He is, in my view, clearly a Wolf. He looks to me to have spent a lot of time on Day 2 maneuvring Boro into the 'hot seat, in place of himself.

One more point worthy of note, from the narration:

When the 13 remaining members of the cast and crew discovered the wolves' handiwork in the morning, all of them wept openly...but five were gloating in their hearts.

Clearly, we do have a Cobbler or some such thing. The bad news (apart from the loss of our Ranger) is that the current ratio of innocents to baddies is less that 3:1. The good news is that we are more likely to lynch a baddie toDay.

I'm off to look at the Day 2 votes.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Volo

I now regret that I didn't have the guts to change my vote from Boro to Rune as I now pretty strongly suspect him.

In my view, the Wolves were voting to save their comrade, Legate, yesterDay. However, I am prepared to consider that they might have been voting to save both Legate and Rune, as I have conisdered Rune to be suspicious. Looking at the votes in this way might well make for an interesting analysis.

Legate answer to my analysis of him pretty much convinced me of his innocense. I don't want to have him lynched!

You, Volo, were I think the first to put forward Boro as a possible candidate yesterDay, but it was Legate who did much of the running. Can you be sure that your analysis was not being used by a Wolf here to malign ends?

[Volo]

Well, having read his posts I am pretty sure he is innocent. Compare this Legate with the wolf Legate in the prevous games...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Hey guys! I'm feeling a lot better now. My high school graduation is tonight (thank goodness I'm feeling better just in time!), so hopefully this will be my last night of minimal activity, unless I relapse. Which would suck. Majorly.

Now, to go and reread the whole entire thread. ._.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Volo

Well, having read his posts I am pretty sure he is innocent. Compare this Legate with the wolf Legate in the prevous games...

I have, since I am very familiar with a Wolfish Legate.

I agree that he is far more aggressive now than when he has previously been a Wolf. However, I am pretty sure that this is down to two things. First off, he has been under a fair amount of scrutiny in this game, almost from the off. Secondly, I would not expect him to act the same way now as a Wolf as he has in the past. Indeed, given that there are a number here who have experience of a Wolfish Legate, I would expect him to act quite differently.

However, if I was not convinced by his behaviour before, I am now from the way in which he took such a dominant role in condemning an innocent Boro. He even, at one point, said something like "Either Boro is a Wolf or SpM is". A classic Wolfish ploy directed towards getting two innocents killed in succession. I have used it mysef on a number of occasions.

[Volo]

I'd say that this is the usual two big innocents killing each other, SPM. He's not going to be online toDay, BTW if you forgot.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Volo

He's not going to be online toDay, BTW if you forgot.

Well, you seemed to have no qualms about turning against a Boro who was clearly unlikely to be able to return to defend himself. I am well aware that Legate will be absent toDay. However, it most certainly does not preclude his Wolfishness. And there is more than enough evidence to condemn him already, in my view.

Now, the Day 2 votes.

Shasta: ++Legate (Legate-1)
SpM: ++Legate (Legate-2)
Boromir: ++Legate (Legate-3)
Lommy: ++Xyzzy (Legate-3, Xyzzy-1)
Volo: ++Boromir (Legate-3, Xyzzy-1, Boromir-1)
Anguirel: ++Brinniel (Legate-3, Xyzzy-1, Boromir-1, Brinniel-1)
Rune: ++Mac (Legate-3, Xyzzy-1, Boromir-1, Brinniel-1, Mac-1)
Kath: ++Rune (Legate-3, Xyzzy-1, Boromir-1, Brinniel-1, Mac-1, Rune-1)
Legate: ++Boromir (Legate-3, Xyzzy-1, Boromir-2, Brinniel-1, Mac-1, Rune-1)
Mac: ++Rune (Legate-3, Xyzzy-1, Boromir-2, Brinniel-1, Mac-1, Rune-2)
Aganzir: ++Boromir (Legate-3, Xyzzy-1, Boromir-3, Brinniel-1, Mac-1, Rune-2)
Diamond: ++Boromir (Legate-3, Xyzzy-1, Boromir-4, Brinniel-1, Mac-1, Rune-2)
Rune: --Mac, ++Boromir (Legate-3, Xyzzy-1, Boromir-5, Brinniel-1, Rune-2)
Brinniel: ++Rune (Legate-3, Xyzzy-1, Boromir-5, Brinniel-1, Rune-3)

Did not vote: Durelin, Xyzzy, Gil

Legate voters: Shasta, SpM, Boro

Legate’s votes were received early in the Day. I am surprised that he did not receive more, but I consider that this was largely down to his own devious machinations (and those of his fellows) throughout the Day. Because I am convinced that Legate is a Wolf, and know two of the Legate voters to be innocent, I consider Shasta also likely to be innocent. It would have been a dangerous wolf-on-wolf vote.

Boro voters: Volo, Legate, Aganzir, Diamond, Rune (retracted from Mac)

I have no reason to reconsider the veracity of Volo’s claim (although his insistance on Legate's innocence is beginning to unnerve me), so his vote was innocent in my view. I also doubt that more than two Wolves, at most, voted for Boro. One of them was Legate. If there was another (and I think it likely that there was), I suspect that it may well have been Rune, with a view to ensuring his own, and Legate's, safety. However, I do not discount the possibility that Aganzir and Diamond may have been voting here to save a fellow Wolf. Particularly Aganzir, as it was her vote that put Boro level with Legate.

Rune voters: Kath, Mac, Brinniel

The votes against Rune came rather late in the Day, and it was Kath that started them. Mac and Brinniel fanned the flames. Difficult to draw any conclusions without knowing whether or not Rune is a Wolf. If he is, then Kath and Mac are looking very innocent as these are unlikely Wolf-on-Wolf votes, given that Rune was under a fair amount of suspicion. Brinniel’s less so, as it came at a time when Rune was probably safe. If Rune is not a Wolf, then the analysis, to my mind, depends on Legate’s guilt, since neither were really directed towards saving him. Since, however, I consider Legate to be as guilty as hell, these votes (those of Mac and Kath) look innocent to me.

Others

The only other votes were Lommy's for Xyzzy, Anguirel’s for Brinniel and Rune’s for Mac (later retracted). Lommy's vote was besed primarily on Xyzzy's lack of participation, and so little can be concluded from that. Anguirel’s vote looks to be a safe one, since there seems to have been little appetite to vote for Brin, although he did plead for support in his case. Rune’s vote for Mac was a very safe one, but was subsequently retracted for a much less safe one, but one which might have been directed towards saving both himself and a fellow Wolf.

So, assuming that there were two Wolves among the Legate voters, then I consider one of Rune, Aganzir and Diamond to be a Wolf. Rune is currently the one that I am most suspicious of. I also consider that there may well be a Wolf among the non-voters, Xyzzy and Gil (given that Durelin has been proven innocent). Which leaves one more. My inclination is to look to Brinniel, for her ‘safe vote’ for Rune. I am not discounting the possibility of a Wolfish Anguirel but, given my view on Legate, I consider it unlikely.

Unless things change dramatically, I will be voting for the Legate of Tol Gaurhoth toDay.

[Diamond18]

Disclaimer: I've been awake for the past 28 hours so this will probably be incoherent and rambling, with a dash of delusional thinking....

It's unfortunate that Boro was innocent, but actually I stand by my reason for voting him as I do not find Legate suspicious enough to lynch, and at the time he had been participating far more than Boro, so would be the worse loss. Well, now Legate is gone all day and will be silent, but I was going by the past posting patterns.

The third one is harder, but I think it's Diamond. I've found her the suspiciously innocentish person here and her vote looks wierd. Though not wierd enough to say for sure. If she had suspected Rune she would have been far more suspicious with this figure. Because she just couldn't have voted Rune and caused a double lynch. And now that she didn't vote for Legate but even saved him, does speak for her. But I'm not lowering my guard!

Wait, I don't understand. First you said my vote was weird and then you say it "does speak for me"? By that I assume you meant it speaks well for me? I'm a little confused as to what you actually are saying about me here.

As far as Rune, I wasn't paying that much attention to him, I think at the time I finished my read through Boro and Legate were tied which made them the only two players who, I suppose, really seemed to matter at the moment.

Eugh. I don't have much time so I won't really waste it on self defense, especially as I'm not sure what you're getting at.

I haven't had time to analyse everyone this game and so I'm playing a somewhat Valier-esque "gut feeling" sort of thing with whom I find suspicious.

Right now my spidey-sense is tingling most in Mac's direction... something about his sureness that Boro would be innocent seems too sure.

SPM seems very innocent to me, which maybe ought to be worrisome in itself as I usually suspect him, but I felt this way last game and he was innocent after all... so I'm not going to worry over him too much for the time being.

There are others players who have been way too quiet to get a read on (I know I'm one of them) and I'm tempted to vote for them just to clear up the view, so to speak. Perhaps I ought to start with myself. But I'm not Nilpish quite yet.

Sigh. I really have to go now. I'm about to be physically ill with sleep deprevation and I have to show up at work again in 6 hours, so it's high time I passed out. It would take a miracle for me to make it online again before Day end, so I'm going to go with my spidey-sense on this one:

+ + Mac

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by me

Clearly, we do have a Cobbler or some such thing. The bad news (apart from the loss of our Ranger) is that the current ratio of innocents to baddies is less that 3:1. The good news is that we are more likely to lynch a baddie toDay.

Actually, on reflection, the good news is not that great. Potentially, five of the votes cast toDay (out of a maximum of thirteen) will be cast with malign intent. That's quite worrying, particularly if any non-voters are innocent, although it should make the voting analysis toMorrow interesting.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by SPM

Well, you seemed to have no qualms about turning against a Boro who was clearly unlikely to be able to return to defend himself.

Indeed. Sorry, Esspiem...

I'm more and more sure of your innocence. We are probably the two fighting loud guys.

Though I am beginning to be a little paranoid on Anguirel (and why SPM was always so sure of his innocence. (Haha! )). Every time I reread Ang's posts I become scared of him, but every time somebody says that they trust him, I begin to feel stupid.
His posts just make so little sense to me... Really! Especially this:

Vote analyses can be helpful resourses, but on this occasion I think more helpful still is who people thought about voting for before Volo's revelation, which completely changed the landscape.

Could you please explain more about Why?

I predict that we lose if Legate is lynched toDay as SPM will be under constant firing toMorrow (or however you werewolfarise the word).


EDIT: Xd with Di and SPM

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Diamond

Wait, I don't understand. First you said my vote was weird and then you say it "does speak for me"? By that I assume you meant it speaks well for me? I'm a little confused as to what you actually are saying about me here.

Yeah, I was writing that as the thought went past.

You feel so innocent that the paranoid part of me wants to lynch you just to be on the safe side...

If you'd voted Legate (and you had the potentiality to doing that even when Wolf, because of your preveous suspicions.) I'd be very sure that you are a Wolf, but since you didn't I'm not sure, I'm not sure...

[Volo]

Continuing on Diamond:

While reading this I somehow thought that I made a mistake about you, Di, but your post crossed that feeling.

Sorry, I don't really know what it is, but it made my hair stand up. Maybe because Valier was a very successful wolf once...


I think I'll go out to have a breath for a while.

[Aganzir]

There are 13 alive.
4 are wolves.
1 is a cobbler or something alike.
1 is Volo.
If we assume there's a Seer and a Hunter and that no one is lying (and that there are no more special things), this would leave 5 ordos. But we can't be sure, and everybody didn't even vote.
If we have a Seer, s/he would have had only two dreams by now. That's not for much help, I'm afraid.

I think Spm's point about Legate is good, but I'm a little taken aback by his certainty. Thoug if he's a wolf and having such a strong case against an innocent, I would think it astonishing.

We had better catch a wolf toDay, and if anyone had any idea who might be wolves, it'd be great, because I just don't suspect anyone enough myself to vote for him/her with certainty or even a strong feeling that I'm killing a wolf. That was to say I can vote for Legate if anyone won't pop up as a more likely wolf.

Originally Posted by Spm

So, assuming that there were two Wolves among the Legate voters, then I consider one of Rune, Aganzir and Diamond to be a Wolf.

Was that a confession?

[Volo]

++Rune Son of Bjarne!

I bet with my life () that Legate is innocent.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I think Spm's point about Legate is good, but I'm a little taken aback by his certainty. Thoug if he's a wolf and having such a strong case against an innocent, I would think it astonishing.

What point?

He looks to me to have spent a lot of time on Day 2 maneuvring Boro into the 'hot seat, in place of himself.

(to SPM about Legate)

I might trust him because his reactions have been very similar to my own. If I were Wolf, I might have suspected him of being Wolf (if that was possible).

You might not see at what I'm leaning because
1. You didn't agree with my (and his) opinions about Boro being extremely suspicious.

2. This answer to this. It does solve many of the suspicions cast at him. No, it really does!


EDIT: NO cross-posts!

Am I the only one alive here? This immortality isn't so nice after all... Gollum, gollum.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Okay, scanned the thread.

The current vote struggle seems to be between Rune and Legate.

My quick Day 2 vote for Legate was just a placeholder; I thought that voting was what kept you from being modkilled, not simply posting. Apologies, Saruman! Don't blast me, okay?

Volo has basically solidified a connection between himself and Legate, so it's pretty safe to say that their alignments are the same. If Volo is telling the truth about his role (which I have no reason not to believe at this point in time), then it would follow that Legate is also on the side of the innocents.

One or two of Rune's posts put my hackles up, but I'm not sure where they were.... I'll have to go back and check.

++Rune, and I'll retract later if it's needed for any reason.

I was also going to mention the evidence of a second watcher in the Night 2 plot, but I see Aganzir already has... Might there be a tracker of some sort? For those who don't know, a tracker-type role watches one person during the night to see whether or not they target someone, and if they do target someone, who they targeted.

Example: I'm the tracker. Aganzir is... say... the Seer. I decide to track Aganzir during the night. Aganzir decides to dream of Volo. I would then receive a list back stating that Aganzir targeted Volo during the night, but I wouldn't be able to see what the results of that targeting were.

Okay, enough rambling, I need a throat lozenge. I also need to practice my backflips, as I'm behind on them, and Orlando "Pretty-Boy" Bloom told his agent not to schedule any gymnastic stunts, so of course I'm stuck doing them.

Edit: X'ed with Volo's last post. Hi again, Volo!

Edit: Okay, I found one of them; Rune's 'safe' vote for Mac yesterday. Moving on.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Volo

What point?

I meant that I found his ways of thinking good in the post where he brought up arguments against Legate. I should have said it clearlier, sorry.

Originally Posted by Shasta

Might there be a tracker of some sort? For those who don't know, a tracker-type role watches one person during the night to see whether or not they target someone, and if they do target someone, who they targeted.

There might, but I think it's more probable that it was about the Ranger and the Wolves or about the Ranger and the Hunter (if there's one) or something...

edit: I meant this post.

[Kath]

Don't think I'll have time to post much tonight but should be able to get on for a bit longer tomorrow (RL). But just a couple of points from reading through so far.

Firstly, how in the heck did Boro get lynched? I'm not usually one for looking at voting records but if there wasn't a wolf egging that little bandwagon on I would be extremely surprised. I'll definitely take a look at that when I get back.

Second is this by, erm, Shasta:

Volo has basically solidified a connection between himself and Legate, so it's pretty safe to say that their alignments are the same. If Volo is telling the truth about his role (which I have no reason not to believe at this point in time), then it would follow that Legate is also on the side of the innocents.

Eh? Just because Volo is a known innocent doesn't mean that those he believes to be innocent are. Even if Legate is Gifted it would seem unlikely that Volo would know that unless the two could communicate, which I doubt. Legate cannot be exonerated just because Volo says so.

I've nothing much else to say right now, except that I still believe Rune is extremely suspicious. I'm not convinced of the innocence of Legate either but Rune is higher on my radar than he is. I'm having trouble finding other suspects though. With that comment about Legate being innocent because Volo says so Shasta has moved into the guilty list because it feels like an attempt to clear a fellow wolf. I also have a sinking feeling that Sauce is playing us all for fools again, as he's pretty much escaping suspicion at the moment, or at least he's not in any real danger. But that's just my 'uh oh Sauce is still alive after two Days, he must be evil!' alarm going off so I'll ignore that for now.

Anyway I shall stop rambling now. I'll be around for a little longer but I have to get to bed early tonight (horrible early morning exercising, bah).

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Volo

I bet with my life (:P) that Legate is innocent.

The above is what I meant by the connection, Kath.

Originally Posted by Kath

Eh? Just because Volo is a known innocent doesn't mean that those he believes to be innocent are. Even if Legate is Gifted it would seem unlikely that Volo would know that unless the two could communicate, which I doubt. Legate cannot be exonerated just because Volo says so.

That wasn't my point. The point I was trying to make is that if we decide to lynch Legate, and he turns out to be a wolf, we should be at least somewhat suspicious of Volo, on the grounds that he "bet with his life" that Legate was innocent.

Originally Posted by Kath

With that comment about Legate being innocent because Volo says so Shasta has moved into the guilty list because it feels like an attempt to clear a fellow wolf.

Originally Posted by Shasta

Volo has basically solidified a connection between himself and Legate, so it's pretty safe to say that their alignments are the same. If Volo is telling the truth about his role (which I have no reason not to believe at this point in time), then it would follow that Legate is also on the side of the innocents.

I did not say that we should trust Legate because Volo says so. I said that if Volo is not lying about his role, Legate is likely to be innocent because no sane wolf would post something as clear-cut as Volo's championing of Legate.

[Gil-Galad]

first off i apolagize, thsi week has became rather busy, mroe busy then i expected, but hopefully this long weekend can give me time to get back up onto speed but the gifted kill and the lack of wolf kills dis-hearten me...

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Volo

Though I am beginning to be a little paranoid on Anguirel (and why SPM was always so sure of his innocence.

I am not at all sure of his innocence. However, given what happened on Day 1, I consider it highly unlikely that both Legate and Ang are Wolves. Since I believe Legate to be a Wolf, I think it unlikely that Ang is one.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Was that a confession?

Oops! I meant “Boro voters”, of course.

Originally Posted by Volo

I bet with my life that Legate is innocent.

And I would stake my life in him being a Wolf. In fact, I pretty much have already.

Originally Posted by Volo

1. You didn't agree with my (and his) opinions about Boro being extremely suspicious.

But that’s the point, isn’t it? Boro, in my view, did not look particularly suspicious. You made a tentative accusation, and Legate seized upon it (no doubt because you are effectively a known innocent) and started sweet-talking everyone into believing it. Can’t you see it? Legate is playing his role to perfection.

Originally Posted by Shasta

Volo has basically solidified a connection between himself and Legate, so it's pretty safe to say that their alignments are the same. If Volo is telling the truth about his role (which I have no reason not to believe at this point in time), then it would follow that Legate is also on the side of the innocents.

Kath picked up on this, but it is worth reiterating. I believe Volo innocent, but he has no special knowledge. Just because Volo thinks Legate is innocent, it does not follow that he is.

Originally Posted by Shasta

I did not say that we should trust Legate because Volo says so. I said that if Volo is not lying about his role, Legate is likely to be innocent because no sane wolf would post something as clear-cut as Volo's championing of Legate.

This doesn't explain your point at all, since I think we are all pretty much agreed now that Volo is not a Wolf. But, just because he has been convinced of Saruman's innocence, it doesn't follow that the White Wizard is not a Wolf of many colours.

Originally Posted by Kath

With that comment about Legate being innocent because Volo says so Shasta has moved into the guilty list because it feels like an attempt to clear a fellow wolf.

I would have thought the same, but for Shasta’s vote yesterDay for Legate, which would have been a very risky Wolf-on-Wolf vote.

Originally Posted by Kath

But that's just my 'uh oh Sauce is still alive after two Days, he must be evil!' alarm going off so I'll ignore that for now.

Uh uh! Here we go …

I’m off to look over what happened yesterDay again, as I was not here at the time.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

2 votes before I have a chance to get online, you guys are really testing my pations!

The next time I have to leave a long time before deadline I just wont vote and give the wolves more influence. . .

OK I won't, but right now I sure feel like it! You guys jump on my back for not voting for one of the two that you decided was most likely to be wolves, well in the end you made me vote for one of them and suprise suprise he was innocent!

Until proven otherwise I will claim that my vote for Mac was wiser than those that vote Boromir at first. Anyways if i cannot vote for the people I find suspicouse then what I am to do?

The reason I get irritated by this is that now everybody thinks that I am a wolf because of one vote, very little of you had other cases against me. SPM and Volo had made some points about my style which is a 1000 times more valid than my vote, if you are going to keep ranting about my guilt do it based on that please.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Volo

Brinniel's vote was a moderately safe vote for a friend. Looking at her earlier thoughts about Rune you'll probably see what I mean. I'm not 100% about this figure, but it looks the most probable.

My earlier thoughts on Rune? Which earlier thoughts are you talking about? I don't recall mentioning anything about him on Day 1, mostly because I didn't know what to think of him at the time. On Day 2, I started to feel suspicious of him (as shown in #180) and it only increased as I took a look back at all of his posts.

And I really wouldn't consider my vote for Rune safe. When I made my vote, I cross-posted with everything since post #194. This means if I hadn't cross-voted, I would've pulled it into a triple-tie, which means a random lynch among the three, and would've given a 1 in 3 chance for the person I voted for and most suspected to be lynched. It was better odds than to seal the fate of Legate, someone I was starting to feel increasingly uncertain of at the time. I hadn't seen the two votes for Boromir until after I made my vote, and by then it was too late to make any sort of difference.

I'm still feeling very uncertain about Legate, I keep going back and forth on him...and it doesn't help that he's not going to be around toDay. Right now, things don't look too good for him simply based on his vote for Boromir yesterDay.

Rune I am still suspicious of, and I will keep an eye on him toDay.

Through most of the game, I've been feeling that Aganzir is innocentish, but just based on her vote for Boromir, which tied him with Legate, I think perhaps I should take a closer look at her. And I can't seem to find a good reason on why she votes for him. I'm not sure what to think here...

Okay, I have to go get ready for work now. I'm pretty sure I'm closing tonight, so I'm afraid I won't be back for another eight hours.

EDIT: X-ed with SPM and Rune

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I am sorry if I was a bit too agressive or used a harsh tone in my earlier post. I was just annoyed with the votes and Lommys death, but I have cooled down now.

[The Saucepan Man]

A few things from yesterDay.

I think that there may be something in Volo’s case against Aganzir, though he seemed to withdraw from it. She was picked up (by Ang) on the comment about Mithalwen’s concern over becoming a widow, which did not look Wolfish to me at all, merely flippant and humorous. But her attempt to explain it by saying that she would not have posted it were she a Wolf does look Wolfish. Why would she say this if it didn’t look Wolfish in the first place? It just seems the kind of overly defensive explanation which a Wolf might give when under scrutiny. Aganzir also looks bad for her determined attempt to discredit Volo, which could well have been a Wolfish attempt to neutralise a known innocent, subsequently abandoned when it gained no support.

If you want more proof that Legate is a Wolf, look no further than his posts #154, #155 and #162. Volo, in post #122, had raised a doubt about Boro and a few people had expressed some possible suspicions, but nothing firm. Then, in these posts, Legate delivers a withering assessment of Boro, seemingly in a honey-tongued attempt to turn the doubts of others into suspicion and, thus, votes. An endeavour in which he was, alas, successful. I think that we are better of without the Voice of Saruman toDay.

Anguirel’s case against Rune and Brinniel (#168) is an interesting one, since it is predicated entirely on the basis of hindsight. He is saying that, because we now know Volo to be innocent, anyone who was suspicious of Volo prior to his revelation looks suspicious, which does not follow at all. Volo did look pretty suspicious immediately before his revelation. I find Rune and Brinniel suspicious, for other reasons, but Ang’s reasoning here looks Wolfish to me. I wonder, is there any possibility that both Legate and Ang are Wolves, and were playing a very risky game on Day 1? Doubtful, but not beyond the bounds of credibility.

Originally Posted by Rune

It was interesting how Legate found Brinniel's comments suspiciouse when he made something very similar, of course it was connected with her vote and he did retract the suspicion when she had explained her self. OK maybe this was not so interesting after all.

Actually, it is quite interesting. Legate seems to have a habit of finding things suspicious when he himself has done them. He did the same with Ang, on the basis of the early Day 1 banter, yet later withdrew his supicion of Ang too.

Originally Posted by Legate of Ima Wolf

I have checked toDay's vote list, and apart from Shasta, who suddenly&unfortunately chose to vote for me, there are yet two other to vote for me. And these are Boro&SpM. I am fairly convinced at least one of them is a Wolf, and I am probably going to vote one of them.

This is the comment that I mentioned earlier. A classic Wolfish ploy.

Kath's post #177 makes a good case against Rune, and echoes my own thoughts on him. I can see why he attracted so much suspicion yesterDay, and can certainly see him as one of Saruman’s Wolfish cohorts. His Day 2 voting looks bad too. A ‘safe’ vote for Mac (who was under little suspicion at the time), subsequently retracted to condemn an innocent Boro, rather than himself or Legate.

[The Saucepan Man]

So, a quick round-up of my thoughts before I retire for the night.

Volo - The Spirit of Tolkien, Lor’ bless ‘im, but unfortunately beguiled by the silver tongue of his own creation.
Legate of Amon Lanc - A sweet-talking rogue who deserves nothing less than a rapid descent from Orthanc onto a nice bed of spikey wheels.
Macalaure - His vote for Sixth raised a slight question in my mind, but I haven’t seen anything else suspicious about him.
Shastanis Althreduin - Probably innocent for his Day 2 vote for Legate.
The Saucepan Man - A lone voice of reason.
Xyzzy - Who knows?
Brinniel - Some suspicious voting and seems a bit reluctant to commit herself. A possible Wolf.
Anguirel - Surely can’t be a Wolf with Legate. But I have some concerns, based upon the points raised just now.
Kath - Useful, constructive contributions. Day 1 vote was slightly suspicious, but Day 2 vote less so. Thinking her innocent-ish for now.
Gil-Galad - No idea. As usual, could be anything.
Aganzir - Non-committal approach earlier on and the suspicious points that I noted just now. A possible Wolf.
Rune - Looks distinctly Wolfish to me, for his frequent but insubstantive posts and his voting.
Diamond18 - Haven’t a clue, but she’s put in a few seemingly ‘safe’ votes.

Back tomorrow, almost certainly to vote for the Wolf Wizard.

[Gil-Galad]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

I am sorry if I was a bit too agressive or used a harsh tone in my earlier post. I was just annoyed with the votes and Lommys death, but I have cooled down now.

looks like a good cover to me...

I don't see what you're finding suspicious about Boromir.

Fools.

now that i don't like... trying a bluff? perhaps boro and mac are both wolfs and Mac tried to bluff by stating that...

but my vote will probably go to Rune though...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

In case you did not notice: Boromir is dead and he was an Ordo

[Gil-Galad]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

In case you did not notice: Boromir is dead and he was an Ordo

alright then... then perhaps Mac was piggy-backing on Boro's death and tried to play either a wolf or gifted...