WW XXXIII - Other Minds and Hands

[Volo]

Disturbing: Gil, Diamond, Shasta and Xyzzy haven't contributed yet, or so little that I couldn't notice it, in this order. Durelin is completely away... Bad. Everybody else seems to be around though.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

After looking through Boro's posts, and more or less ignoring the yesterDay's because he really seemed to be in bad timing and the posts create a self-contained "equating effect" (he explains himself, so the general feeling is neutral), the final result is more or less like that I said earlier. If he were an innocent, I am convinced, since last time I experienced my share of it, he'd act differently. I have one very strong image of Boromir the Innocent in my mind, and it is the image of a person who goes around throwing suspicions, then picks a person and goes after her until he/she ends lynched. Now he is acting differently. About what he said on Ang, me and SpM I spoke before. His suspicion against my voting-post, while on a "good" basis (meaning I think an innocent might eventually come to that suspicion), is in my point a little bit exaggerated, making too much of it. Which implies wolvery. Also, his earlier mentioning of Kath and Di seeming perfectly innocent does not look good to me. How he even came to it? Speaking of Kath, to me she looks also sort of suspicious, and I think to more people around here, but since Boro operates quite a lot with hunches (which I totally don't agree with), it might be that he "feels" Kath innocent in this way. But the statement "if you are wolves, congrats" is a little too strong. The question is, if Kath is innocent and Boro were a wolf, why would he say this. Unless he plans to, let's say, kill her toNight, and thus get the suspicion off him.
EDIT: I can't make anything of it, but if anyone's interested, or for later thinking of it. This is what Kath says about Boro:

Originally Posted by Kath

Boro - voted for himself, apparently to try and get people talking, but when found that didn't work he retracted his vote and voted for Ang 'for no real reason'. Now, having exonerated Di for doing the same thing I can hardly jump on Boro for it either. However, it feels more forced than Di's vote did. I know that's terrible reasoning, but how can you explain a feeling?

SpM is quite a long story to read, but I might very well end voting for him toDay. His speeches, whatever they are, are many times too much "general", not taking it into finalizing, leaving some "vacuum" behind them, which I believe an innocent would fill - either to find that filling it solves the matter to good, or to bad. On the contrary, there are things looking more innocent, like his enduring case against me. If he were a wolf and I ended lynched, this could seem bad to him. Or would it? He might play an innocent who focused too much on one subject who turned out innocent (he even earlier mentioned this here, like that it sometimes happens to him - it was in connection with me). In this case, this could be an excuse for his action, and so the Wolf goes unnoticed.

EDIT: x-ed since my last post

[Volo]

I'll go off to mend my bike (or try mending my bike, like I have been "trying" for the last six... hmm... more, months) soon.


Before that a very quick word about Kath, Brinniel and Rune.

Kath seems genuine. A bit exaggerated opinions in her second post, but otherwise looks innocent.

Brinniel gives me the feel of a confused innocent, maybe even so confused that she could be a wolf. I mean acting confusion. Still, doesn't strike too alarming, though if I had to give four names of possible wolves, she'd probably be in the list.

Rune feels like himself. Though he hasn't said much relevant stuff yet. He might be a Rune-wolf, but I think that we should wait a few days before voting him.


Aargh. I've been thinking and rethinking.

++Boromir

, like I said before, something looks very wrong here. I decided that Aganzir should live, the way she plays is wolfish, but at the same very innocentish, actually looks very much like my own style when I'm innocent.

I'll go now, and not give any certain time of returning, but I'm going to think over this again.


EDIT: Xd with Lommy. Great to see you even as for such a little hop. Your vote isn't a good one, grudges? But I'll agree about what you said there in the first post.

[Aganzir]

This is probably waste of time, as we should have no reason to expect Volo is lying, but I still feel somehow uncomfortable about him. I started analysing him a couple of hours ago but couldn't post this earlier as Lommy decided to pop over.

Day 1
#5: Pure ic.
#49: Trusts Mith. Lommy's vote speaks well for her. Legate and Aganzir innocentish. More afraid of Mac and Ang.
#57: Agrees with Legate that Ang's half-in-half-out-character talking is annoying, and suggests Ang to quit it. Votes for Anguirel, but says he's probably innocent.
#60: Asks also Legate to play either in-character or out-character. Finds Kath interesting.
#63: Asks Rune not to twist his words. Reveals his role, because he's "not in a mood now and not too optimistic for keeping the role a secret".
#67: Pretty sure that Mac or Ang are wolves. Feels that Mac is going to get closer to Ang. Says it's no use to go analysing the silent ones. Says doesn't really want to lynch Ang, but he's far from innocentish.
#77: Tells more about his role. Says he was frustrated with Ang, but now logic tells he's innocent.
#82: Tells Brinniel he has already revealed his role.
#84: Asks if Sixth is worth lynching. Can see why he's suspicious, though.
#88: Thinks Kath is a wolf. "She analysed too little content with too much text."
#96: Retracts his vote for Anguirel and votes for Sixth instead. Suspects both of them more than Legate, but votes for Sixth as he'll be more probably lynched.
#110: Voting records that far.

Day 2
#119: Voting records from the previous Day. Thinks Spm and Lommy are in the worst place.
#122: Says Boromir has been acting quite un-Boromirish. Sees a connection between Boro and Ang, and says he will rather vote Boromir than Ang.
#129: Mac is innocent or a careful wolf, but his carefulness is a bit too careful for a wolf. Brinniel's vote is weird and she's being eccentric, but doesn't want to vote for her.
#131: Says he thought Mith was the Seer.
#134: Finds Spm interesting. Asks Legate to clarify some of his earlier statements. Doesn't know what to think about Legate.
#135: Finds my post (#132) newbie-wolvish.
#136: Asks Ang's opinion of Boro and Boro's opinion of everything.
#158: Analyses toDay's talk about me. I'm speaking nonsense and defending myself. Wonders where has the calmness of the previous game gone, and says he'll vote for me if nothing unexpected happens. Tells his post #135 was "in a joking manner". (Well, I can tell you I didn't see that you were joking, except for the in-characterness, the point of which I thought I understood as I had been complaining to you some minutes earlier that it's a shame we don't use our characters more.)
#161: Thinks it's bad that Gil, Diamond, Shasta and Xyzzy haven't been contributing.
#165: Kath looks innocent. Brinniel is confused innocent, or maybe a wolf acting confused. Rune might be a wolf, but we shouldn't vote him off for a few Days. Votes for Boromir. I'm both wolvish and innocentish but I'm playing a little like himself, when innocent.

When reading through the Day 1, Volo seemed quite wolvish sometimes. In my opinion the most suspicious thing he did was revealing his role, especially as I can't see the point of his role. He revealed it after receiving only two votes, and he wouldn't probably have been killed anyway, seeing how much more Sixth and Ang were gaining suspicion.
After a while of general confusion he told more about his role. A nice way for a wolf to avoid suspicion, to create a new role for himself.
He was also a little flip-floppy with his opinion of Ang. I mean, Ang didn't say that much between Volo's posts #67 & #77, and eventhough some who had played earlier with him said he's always like that, the sudden change of Volo's opinion is worth noticing.

The Day 2 makes me feel more like that he's innocent. He's contributing, he has some good points. The most important thing is that I find his tone somewhat different from the previous Day. He keeps suspecting different people, but with better grounds, I think (though it's not surprise as by now we have much more material than yesterDay we can use).
But the thing I don't understand is why he kept throwing suspicion against me, as I think he really should have known better than expecting me to fall for those newbie-wolf mistakes. I understand why others found them suspicious, but it was Volo who pointed them out, and he was also the one who continued accusing me of them.
Either I have overestimated him, he has underestimated me or then there's somehow good chances of him being a wolf.

I thought it would be possible that someone started accusing me of that post of mine, but I would never had expected this much suspicion. I probably should have kept silent after you, Volo, seized on my words, since I thought answering to you might seem overreactive self-defence (as it indeed seems to have done).

As for the calmness, I don't remember I was suspected even this much in my previous game, which you happened to mod. I suppose mod's perspective must be quite different from player's. In the last game you knew with 100 % certainty that I was innocent, and could look at my behaviour from a different angle than now, when all you do is looking for suspicious signs on other players.

Originally Posted by Legate

The more alarming now seems to me Aganzir's statement "were I a wolf, I'd never post it". Why?

I wouldn't have wanted to gain suspicion by saying it. I could have left it unsaid and that wouldn't have changed anything in my post. If I had been deliberately avoiding suspicion, it would have been better not to say it, ie not to say something that is usually considered a newbie-wolf mistake, and I know it as well as you do.

edit: xed with Rune & Ang

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Mac

I find it a tiny bit strange that Boro is suspicious because of Legate's double lynch comments, while he finds Brinniel, who made similar comments, innocent. I mean, I share his overall judgement of the two, but still it's a little bit weird. Where do you see the difference, Boro? You have not told.

This makes me think. . .I know it is shocking!

It was interesting how Legate found Brinniel's comments suspiciouse when he made something very similar, of course it was connected with her vote and he did retract the suspicion when she had explained her self. OK maybe this was not so interesting after all.

Now we are talking about Brinniel and we were!

There is something about her that does not sit right, she seems somewhat uneasy, kind of nervouse. Maybe she always plays like this, but gets killed to fast for me to notice, but I think she seems like she might be afraid to get killed. This could be due to her being killed so early in previouse games or maybe she is not and ordo.

Moving on to Gil-Galad

He might be busy at the moment, but there has been indications that he is not going to play like last game. This could mean that he is an ordo once again or that he is a cunning wolf. I still need to make my mind up.

Please someone say something that convinces me to vote for you as I really have to leave soon.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I have to vote now and in my search for a candidate I went back and looked at my suspects from yesterday: Volo and Mac.

Volo I belive although I still think he acted very weird yesterday and that leaves Mac to compete with Brinniel and Gil.

Of these Mac is the one I am most comfortable voting for today, Gil I will give a chance to prove him self and Brinniel I need to watch for a bit.

My case against him might not be the best you have ever seen, but here goes.

1. He has his whole in-charachter rant, which have been the subject of much debate.

2. He pretty much focuses his suspicions and his post contents on Legate, leaving almost no trace if he is a wolf and is lynched.

3. At first his main thing case again Legat was that he did not agree with his suspicion of Ang, but I suppose this is quite normal for day 1.

4. In post 78 he all of the sudden feels beter about Legate, but tells not why.

yeah that is basicly what makes me uneasy about him, some of the points have more merit than others, but I thought I would put it all there. (nr3 is very shaky, but it made me wonder in the situation)

++Macalaure

(We have 10 min breakes every hour at work and there is computers, but they are slow. Anyways I will try to get on and check up on what is happening , so if anything drastic happens I might be able to change my vote)

Edit: Cross posted with Aganzir

[Anguirel]

If Volo did invent his "Spirit of Tolkien" role then I'm seriously impressed.

But a look at the first narration should convince you that it was planned as part of the game from the start. We are "trusting in the spirit of Professor Tolkien to protect us", apparently.

It is of course possible that, taking his lead from that hint, Volo made up a fitting role to save his lupine skin. But that's the kind of trick I've only known myself, the phantom and conceivably Fea to stoop to!

I think it's far more likely that he is a proven innocent and far more helpful to regard him as such - we do need all the information we can get. So Volo's role is essentially the only thing I'm clinging onto solidly at present...

[Aganzir]

Anguirel, I understand your way of thinking, but I'm afraid I can't totally agree with you. To me it's not clear that Volo is innocent. It's unlikely he would have made up the role, but it's not certain that he hasn't done just that. He would probably find it funny.
It's a role that could be very easily created because it just is, without any significant purpose or meaning, and he doesn't have to answer questions like "who did you dream of?" or "who did you protect?".

I also understand why Brinniel suspected Volo, and I don't think that's a reason to vote for her. Of course she might be a wolf who startled when Volo told about his role, but in my opinion she looks more like a confused innocent. Or then a wolf acting confused innocent - I don't think a wolf would be the first one to ask about the role (if I remember correctly at least Spm and Legate had asked about it before Brinniel), but even if she had waited for someone other to ask more about it, she eventually had to do it herself (as Volo didn't seem to answer because she hadn't managed to see his edit on the post where he told about the role).

I'll go and eat something. Will be back in an hour, as I probably should also do my homework and I rather do it before the deadline starts drawing near.