Frodo or the Ring?

[Elladan and Elrohir]

Showing up way late for this discussion (pity), but a few points:

1) About Olorin and Manwe: I don't think we can take Tolkien's statements in UT about this at face value like we can with LOTR. It's pretty obvious that JRRT's views were still to some extent undeveloped regarding this, though he obviously leaned toward what all have commonly supposed, that Olorin is a Maia, not Manwe Sulimo.

The same goes to an even greater extent to the HOME series. Yes, they contain valuable insights about M-E, but they cannot be taken as gospel as can LOTR and Silmarillion. Tolkien had not completed his world; he was still thinking out many complex issues (such as the origin of orcs). It is truly sad that he could not finish his mythology to his satisfaction before his death; yet I think that, similar to the tree in "Leaf by Niggle," it would never truly be finished. There was always something else to work on, some new question to ponder and try to answer. Thus, we cannot hold HOME in the same regard as LOTR etc.

2) I'm taking the tentative position that it was indeed the Ring that spoke. As Rose pointed out, the voice comes "out of the fire". Also, as others have pointed out, it was "a commanding voice," a bit incongruous for Frodo since he had just been panting for Gollum to get away.

As for why did the Ring not speak previous to that point, here's a point to consider that, as far as I can see, no one has discussed here: The Ring was growing in power as it got closer to Mount Doom. There, on the very slopes of the mountain where it was forged, its power would be almost at a height. It makes sense, then, that it might even have the power to speak here.

Then we are left with the question: Why did the Ring not want Gollum to touch it? At this point, that's the one huge hole in my argument. Why wouldn't it want Gollum to beat Frodo and take it? He would immediately put it on, and in a few moments the Nazgul would be there, and all would be over.

In one of Tolkien's Letters, he says that if Gollum had not played false, and if he had stayed with Frodo and Sam to Mount Doom, he would in the end have taken the Ring by force. But then he would have seen that the only way he could keep the Ring and hurt Sauron would be to destroy it and him together, and he would also have seen that this would be his greatest service to Frodo. He then would have voluntarily cast himself into the flames. JRRT went on to say that Frodo would have had a similar vision after he had put on the Ring, but he was immediately attacked by Gollum.

The only surmision I can reach at this moment is that the first part of what JRRT says, about that the only way for Gollum to keep the Ring and hurt Sauron would be to destroy it and him together, still holds true in this scenario. Perhaps the Ring realized that Gollum WOULD have thrown himself into the fire, had he taken the Ring. But then, Frodo likely would have done the same, so I don't know.

Would speculate further, but I am going to bed. Elen sila lumenn omentialvo.