Orcs... were elves?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

Tecnically that is only partially true. A footnote in the Drunedain essay notes a few Drugs were able to grow a tiny beard (it's described as being like a small peice of dried moss) and that this is considered a major status symbol amoungs them. And other notes point out that Stoor's (the most mannish of hobbits) can sometimes grow facial hair (though Ive often thoght that the Stoors, being so mannish to begin with, may have gotten some actual mannish blood (or more accuratley, normal mannish blood, since hobbits themselves are a type of man) in them over time, and the beards may come from there.

I was aware that there could have been exceptions, but as "offshoots" of Men, in general neither drûgs nor Hobbits were known for growing facial hair.

By the same token, the fact that we aren't told of any Orcs having beards is no proof that there were none. However, I am disinclined to believe that the shared smooth-faced characteristics of the three groups was necessarily meaningless.

[Eruhen]

To my (admittedly non-expert) view, the multiple-origins theory answers more questions than it raises. By having the First and Second Age orcs be based primarily off of Maiar and Eldar stock, it provides formidable enemies for the Eldar and Atani to battle without having the ridiculous scene of an Elf or a Man fighting an Orc half his size or less. Then, over the course of the Second and Third Ages, Sauron could breed Men (specifically Easterlings and Southrons) into the Orcs as a way of rebuilding the armies the War of Wrath decimated. Also, the Orcs that sheltered from the Ruin of Beleriand in the Misty Mountains would naturally decline in size to fit their new lodgings in the 7000 years between the Ruin and the War of the Ring.

I also like the idea of there being 'high' and 'low' bloodlines in the Orcish race, corresponding to more and less Elvish and Maiar blood.

[Alfirin]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I was aware that there could have been exceptions, but as "offshoots" of Men, in general neither drûgs nor Hobbits were known for growing facial hair.

By the same token, the fact that we aren't told of any Orcs having beards is no proof that there were none. However, I am disinclined to believe that the shared smooth-faced characteristics of the three groups was necessarily meaningless.

Beardedness seems to vary amoungs the mannish groups. The Numenorians (and by extension, Gondorians and Arnorians) are notably beardless, though whethere they actually don't usually grow beards or if it's just that beards have never been fashionable is a bit unclear to me (the Numernorians do have some elvish blood in them (at least the royal line does) so they may have the elvish beard expression (i.e not growing facial hair till they are quite elderly, possibly not until and age far in excess of what they live to). The fuzzyness of the other free mannish races is not much mentioned, though the fact that note is made of the fact that the Near Haradrim are bearded by those that fight them seems to indicate that beards may not be a common sight in the free lands (though you have to weigh this agaisnt the fact that most of the people who are fighting the Haradrim are Gondorian, who as previously noted, don't usually wear beards) The The Ishtari are of course bearded, but since common men tend to think of them (at least to think of Gandalf, and presumably Saruman) as possibly being part elf or dwarf anyway their beardeness may or may not have been a remarkable trait.