WWJ X: Hithlum Zydeco Blues; Hísilómë in Hísimë

[Nogrod]

Not all who voted for Form & Glirdy were wolves. Right.

But accusing someone of trying to be at the place and make a difference is dishonest when one is in the first instance guilty of the things that happened.

To whom this was good? To the wolves. Who would not like to come and try? The wolves again.

Who would like to pour all this down on me? The wolves (or very pathetic villagers trying to bury their own feelings of guilt).

Think also of the following: what on earth was I doing there at the end of Day1, getting myself into all this trouble? A nice vote at least six hours before the deadline - to Glirdy or Form f.ex. - and nobody would have raised an eyebrow.

EDIT: X-posted with Kitanna (Roa's rhetorics seem to work...)

[Macalaure]

I hate to bring this up again, as it is not very interesting and doesn't show me in a good light: my posts towards Kuruharan.

First off, Kuru, my suspicion of you has subsided a little. Your response was just as annoyed as it should have been and was so by right.

Originally Posted by Roa

I'm curious as to how Mac would suggest we pursue this idea beyond the norm. (In other words, what your point in saying what we already knew?)

As I already said, the second part of that paragraph was not that intelligent. I have no idea. Out of the seven voters for Form and Glirdan 3 were known innocents, and all of the other four (Roa,Valier,Kitanna,Mith) don't speak of innocence to me. But at least one of them must be innocent.


Right now, there are only two things I know for sure and that I can work around. I am innocent and so is Morm. Morm hasn't been talked of much toDay and the ones that have talked to me / about me [edit: recently] (except Kuru) are Roa and Kitanna.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

First off, I agree that this really makes no sense. I have no idea what you're trying to say in all that Mac.

Partly you're right and partly you seemed to not even have tried. Not all of it was nonsense. This could be interpreted badly: A wolf seeing a stupid and misled innocent, stressing the fault without getting in too deep and seeing if other innocents bite on it.

Enter the good cop: Roa.
If I wasn't already suspicious about her, I might have thought "oh, thanks! Somebody at last caught a bit of it." But now it simply does not sit right with me.

Interestingly again, exactly these two are the ones who loudly promote the lynching of Nogrod right now. I still see Nogrod more innocent than guilty and his points against Roa make sense even though they're very angry. But if Nogrod is lynched and if he is found innocent then, especially Roa and Kitanna will be looked upon very closely. This makes it unlikely to me that they're both wolves.

[Mithalwen]

After my quick glimpse at work, I was convinced on the drive to the cyber cafe that I had found two wolves. Nogrod and Jenny Hallu (confirming my instincts re alleged analysis). Only problem is their interraction.

Nogrod mildly agrees with Jenny Hallu's suspicion of Kuruharan. Sometimes wolves avoid referring to eah other on Day 1. However a brief reference may be less suspicious.

I wonder about Nogrod saying that his vote might be and "on wolf" vote .... an odd expression ... I have only heard "wolf on wolf vote" ... but I am wary of taking it too seriously since even when I was near bilingual I know I used some odd expressions in French.

More soon... need a break.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I wonder about Nogrod saying that his vote might be and "on wolf" vote .... an odd expression ... I have only heard "wolf on wolf vote" ...

One never should try word-plays in a language that is not the first one... Morm entertained the idea that my vote for Kitanna might have been a "wolf on wolf", so as I'm not a wolf, I just expressed, that I believed it to be "on wolf" -vote. Yeah. Never try being funny when you actually can't.


But back to the bussiness.

Thanks Macalaure to sending us (well at least me) back on track, which is hunting wolves.

The first thing a wolf wants to secure is a good looking (or defendable) voting record. How do you get one in a village as quiet as ours on Day1? Well, surely by voting either Glirdy or Form - who both behaved somewhat suspiciously. They were easy to vote.

So the not-known Form/Glirdy voters are:
Roa
Valier
Kitanna
Mith

Of these I believe Mith innocent as she rushed in on the last second etc. (I've made the point already)

That leaves Roa, Valier and Kitanna. Of these I think even two might be wolves. I don't think it too fantastic an idea. A wolf must secure her vote. I know that is a bold suggestion, but look at the numbers: the wolves must be somewhere. I would also be inclined to believe that the wolves vote early enough, not to take any risks of making open decisiond between people.

That would leave - surprise, surprise - Roa and Kitanna...

Now where's the third wolf?

One safe, in the middle of the day vote perhaps? Maybe even trying to see whether a bandwaggon on a known good player might take air under it? So Eomer? I'll have to look at these possibilities more carefully... there were others there too. (I was already inclined to believe Eomer innocent after his defence felt genuine)

Sorry to be this open right now, but I have a bad feeling that you are going to lynch me toDay and there's just 1½ hours left. So I'll try to do my best before it.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Mac said that he was tense, tense! Calm down! Calm down! and all that. It was merely in jest, Kuru. I found it strange that you picked at those bones.

But Nogrod's stance of hogging the moral high-ground smacks of classic wolvery. "Oh, where were all the villagers? Shame on you!" It's a tactic, mark my words.

Apparently, he doesn't know what to make of me now. But this willingness to jump from me (who responded to his suspicions) over to Roa (who, with a couple of short remarks, provoked a very passionate response from Nogrod) has me convinced of his guilt; certainly more so than anyone else in this village. I think a stubborn innocent would have dismissed Roa and said that he would deal with her once Eomer was dead, but Nogrod sees enemies everywhere.

String him up!

++NOGROD

[Nogrod]

Eomer #36
I was waiting for the first person to jump on board the case against Glirdan, whose only crime was to set the ball rolling against that pesky curmudgeon Formendacil. It was construed as 'Glirdan is jumping on Form-suspicion'

I don't buy it. I think Mormegil is trying to invent a decent reason for his Day One vote. And let's be honest: Glirdan is about as lynchable as they get. A good idea, but I see it for what it truly is: fangéd skullduggery. String him up!

++MORMEGIL

At that time the tally: Form 2, Glirdy 1, Nogrod 1

Kuruharan #47
I'm going to go ahead and vote...

++ Eomer of the Rohirrim

Mainly because he's not been around...much, and I can't think of anything better to do. I don't really want to join the Signore Formendacil bandwagon (although, mama mia, if he does turn out to be a wolf that will be awkward). I'm even less comfortable with the Signore Glirdan campaign.

WARNING: Vote under pressure and may change with little warning.

At that time the tally: Form 3, Glirdy 2, Nogrod 1, Morm 1

Jenny #50
For now, at least, I'm going to vote

++Kuruharan

May change. Not sure.

Preceded by:

Jenny #42
Frankly, I'm most suspicious at the moment of Kuruharan. He's said enough for a presence, but I don't think any of it has been meaningful.

And his bit on "useful" and "not-useful" people...which, exactly, are which? Look at our camp rolls...everyone here, to my mind, falls into the useful category.

At that time the tally: Form 3, Glirdy 2, Nogrod 1, Morm 1, Eomer 1

Some thoughts to follow...

Btw. Eomer, I saw your vote. You are either evil or then totally misguided. I somehow hope you are evil, because then my initial guess has been proven right...

[Mithalwen]

I don't particularly suspect Roa partly because she has been making good sense in her posts but she is plausible.


Nogrod, fair enough, that makes sense. I am prepared hang fire on you but I doubt it will be enough now.

What is the voting now?

[Mithalwen]

I make it Noggin 2 Kitanna & Eomer and Valier 1 (Morm)

Lets add another to the mix seeming wolfish due to "analysis" smoke screen:

++ JennyHallu

[Nogrod]

Alright.

Eomer I still suspect somewhat. His vote for me may be triggered because he has found no one else to suspect (and a couple of persons have ranted on my guilt quite enough to ensure I'm in when those who can't or don't bother to think themselves make their decisions) or because I suspected him - or because he's a wolf.

His vote on Morm is a clessic wolf vote, trying to see whether a loosely based vote on a good player takes off and produces a good lynch to the wolves. I've said enough of Eomer today, I suppose.

Kuruharan's grounds for voting Eomer were

Mainly because he's not been around...much, and I can't think of anything better to do.

Then he added that he doesn't join either of the bandwaggons. It could be an ordo just not knowing what to do, or then a wolf skilfully seeing the dangers involved in joining at that minute... Hard to say.

Jenny is interesting. Her motive for voting Kuru is that he has been around to make a presence, but that non of it had been meaningful. Now this is first of all empirically false and secondly, there were lots of people of whom the same could have been said.

To top that, I've a feeling she has been a bit touchy (yeah, I'm the best to say that, I know, but there has been some rain over me toDay).

Of these three I would suspect Eomer and Jenny. There could be arguments laid over both of them.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Nogrod, though I will likely keep arguing for your death, please know that, if you are innocent, you will more than likely be very useful after you are gone. While I am very reluctant to take your theories at face-value just now, I will obviously give them the greatest of respect if I know their creator was of a good heart.

Small consolation, perhaps!

And I am gone for tonight. No hanging around silently at the end, I promise!

[Macalaure]

I want to get a vote off, now. I will be around until the deadline.

So, Roa or Kitanna, Kitanna or Roa...

++ Roa_Aoife

[Roa_Aoife]

A little jumpy Nogrod? Did I hit a nerve?

She calls my speculation on Eomer a "strong agressive attack"? C'mon Roa! You know very well yourself, what I can do... and what is a strong aggressive attack in the first place - I've seen you build them too. Then as you have yourself labelled my thoughts of Eomer as a strong attack, you accuse me of being inconsistent or suspicious because I have said I'm toning down. Nice Roa. Very nice. Oh how suspicious!

Who's midunderstanding now? You have made a statement in several games in the past that you were trying to tone down your agressiveness. Now it's suddenly back up. It's a behavior change that I find startling and rather alarming.

And your agressiveness is certainly up now that you're under attack.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

First of all, an intentional misunderstanding. I didn't say Eomer should have "rescued" either Form or Glirdy. That was the whole point! We would have needed more people on the place to make a difference. I couldn't save them both and he couldn't have saved them both. So also asking why I didn't save Form is just continuing on the wrong tracks. So wishing to make me look like a culprit to the tragedy of yesterday (being herself one of those who voted for Form/Glirdy). Nice move Roa.

A misunderstanding indeed, but not intentional, and for that I apologize. But for not saving Form? You were there at the end when he made his statement, but it was Mith who made the last second save, not you. You conveniently dissapeared at that point, and this is point I am making.

I've already made an answer for my vote, and I wasn't there at the end to help or change my vote. You were, and you can't turn that back around on me.

Well You know, there are people who speak or tell things (truthfully) and then there are people who just "claim" something. So I'm also the one who just claims being somewhere or done something. Very untrusty guy this Nogrod fellow, isn't he? Unfortunately you can check the last ten minutes of the last night. I was there. I don't only claim to have been there. The real problem is, that there were no others...

No, the real problem, as I've just stated, is that you suddenly weren't there when Form made his reveal.

No one could have made the difference there alone! Go check the situation yourself for God's sake and stop being intentionally misleading. It's annoying (or then evil - you Roa know which one of these it is in your case). Some people here had voted stupidly and then refused to come back to help us out from the situation. To wolves that's just great, but for us others not.

Mith made the difference all by herself. You certainly didn't help her. So your statement is inherently false. Some people have to vote and leave because RL interferes. Scolding people for that is rather harsh of you. And I ask to refrain from using "stupid" as an attack. Everyone here is highly intelligent, and while we may have ade a mistake, we don't deserve that kind of debasement.

And Bingo! She got the word "flip-flopping" included in the post! Yes, that Nogrod is also a flip-flopper! First of all, the accusation is wrong as I have tried to explain here. But secondly - and I think even more importantly, it's there to rouse suspicion (because everyone is so confident that anything someone names flip-floppy is bad). So ungrounded rhetorics once again.

News flash! Flip-flopping is bad. It's a sign of a wolf trying to please the crowd. It was a statement of my own observations, which I deem to be correct.

Roa I have been pondering so far whether I could try to trust you on this game - it would be just so totally improbable that you were a baddie again. But as you are here trying to make a mountain out of a molehill just using only rhetorical means and intentionally misguided interpretations, and as I happen to know that their target is innocent, I'm getting somewhat alarmed. If you would be an ordo just missing the mark, you would have had been sharper, more intelligent, seeing actual connections or slips or whatever. Here you had none.

More intelligent? Ouch. Serously, I'm playing my best. I don't have the time I had last game to do huge analysis, but I will next Day. And if you aren't dead by then, you can expect an in depth analysis on you. I may be making a mountain out of a molehill, but that's what wolfish Ang and cobbler Jennysaid about my case against wolfish Boromir.

You may know your role, but we do not. So you can't accuse us all of looking for "an innocent' to lynch. I rather think that this "wolf on wolf" theory of Morm's regarding you and Kitanna may be right, but I'd have to look more closely at Kitanna, which I assure you I will.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

I think a stubborn innocent would have dismissed Roa and said that he would deal with her once Eomer was dead, but Nogrod sees enemies everywhere.

I only see three of them, dear Eomer...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

My evil ways are significantly overshadowed in this village by the beasts who would tear me limb from limb in the night. I do wish it hadn't come to this, Nogrod, you were such a good drinker and an able singer after a bottle of brandy. But the scoundrels have turned friend against friend in these sad times. And though I may be misguided, I'm certainly no wolf.

I have a vote? Are you sure, Mith?

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

I have a vote? Are you sure, Mith?

No you are one of the voters for Nogrod . Kit is the other

Morm voted for Valier.

I voted for Jenny

Now Mac has voted for Roa.


Noggin, I would add that I thought it interesting that Jenny Hallu highlighted Valier's absence yesterday in her own first post.

Canadians being thin on the ground yesterday (game time) is in itself no more suspicious than Americans being other wise engaged tomorrow (real time). Now Valier is as good as anyone at keeping a low profile as a wolf but she is worth keeping around incase she does her "wolfsmeller pursuivant " thing ...

[Valier]

Wow the power in my whole city has been out until just now, like for three hoursI will read through and see what has been happening.

I still highly suspect Eomer and will more than likely vote for him today. I have not seen any red flags about Nogrod so far, so I will not vote for him today.

I will back shortly and see how things are going.

[Kuruharan]

Mac said that he was tense, tense! Calm down! Calm down! and all that. It was merely in jest, Kuru. I found it strange that you picked at those bones.

Signore Eomer, you are not placing that in context. Truly, the “tense” comment was said in jest. But it was in a stream of self-justification that continued afterward. I believe the words “Trying too hard” apply to him here.

However, I too am becoming alarmed at the behavior of Signore Nogrod. I believe I can crystallize the source of my unease down to a single word – “hasty.” He seems very quick to toss around ideas and accusations. While having ideas is not at all a bad thing, it seems to me that an ordo would be best served by having more coherence and order to the way they proceed. It is in a wolf’s interest to whirl about and cause confusion, which seems to be what Signore Nogrod is doing. I’m also uncomfortable with the way he labels “very pathetic villagers trying to bury their own feelings of guilt” (post 105). Something about that just does not sit well with me.

He also makes a lot of the fact that he was “there” at the end of yesterday’s voting. My reaction is “so?” That is not proof of anything.

Ecco, my current suspicions are of Signore Macalaure, Signore Nogrod, and Signore Eomer…not necessarily in that order. The odds tell me that at least one of them is innocent. At the moment I’m inclined to believe Signore Eomer is innocent…but that might be off.

I’m not going to vote yet. I’ll wait a bit longer to see what happens.

Ciao!

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

However, I too am becoming alarmed at the behavior of Signore Nogrod. I believe I can crystallize the source of my unease down to a single word – “hasty.” He seems very quick to toss around ideas and accusations. While having ideas is not at all a bad thing, it seems to me that an ordo would be best served by having more coherence and order to the way they proceed.

You like Eomer seem to fall into the same trap, concentrating on one fiend at the time - discussing just one or two persons... We have three wolves and three has to be found before the village is secured. And as I have had bad feeling about this being my last day here, I've tried to help. Sorry for that.