WW: LXXXVIII - Trouble in the Misty Mountains: Game Thread

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Kath

Nerwen - said TEW would be trailless but hadn't yet checked the posts. Question about the analysis: She says the wolves shouldn't have seen TEW as Gifted given he backed off from the Legate suspicion, but then goes on to mention his 'nervous Gifted' behaviour. Either I'm not following your train of thought or you've flip flopped there Nerwen? I like the sword icon catch though.

Kath, I don't think you can have read my post there properly– I was talking about several different possible scenarios, and you seem to have merged them.

Originally Posted by Legate

To note: this sounded genuine.

Well, now that I *have* caught up in my reading– it looks even more to me like a forced suspicion– like she's seen a chance to lynch me after noting Kit and Greenie's posts on me.

[Laeko_Randalis]

Kit, #137 I'm against protecting your lot. You're lucky you didn't really say anything yesterday.

Sounds like SOMEpony's jealous. Nah, just kidding. You drive a hard, cold logic, but you seem legit nevertheless. Maybe a little too serious, but legit.

And yes, to everypony else, I do understand that my protection ends tonight. I honestly didn't ask for it and the only reason I'm thankful for it is because it took me a while to get into the habit of checking this thread. I might actually be bummed to see Azura go, because it looks like he's gonna get modfired unless he does something last-minute.

Regarding Bom, I didn't like the first impression I got, but that was a combination of the vibe I got from his post combined with his usericon (I know, that's stupid, but his post and his picture seemed to communicate a logical predator cooly observing his prey). But first impressions over texted internet are easily misleading, so I'm going to hope he posts more and see what happens. Hopefully I'll wind up liking him as much as I like his screenname.

If Sally confessed to wanting to lynch TEW after he was proven innocent, my first conclusion is that she's being honest and confessing her mistake (though I missed the post in which she said it. Weird, I could have sworn I read everything after TEW died). Then again, upon further reading, I now understand the suspicion of lynch-apologizing.

[satansaloser2005]

Nerwen: I was wary of the jump as well, but, well, I'll be frank. I rather suspect both of you.

EDIT: clarification, x'd with Laeko

[Nerwen]

And another thing–

Originally Posted by G55

She suspects Kath for her vote for sally, but lets it go because of Kath's usual Day Ones. After the "Pitchwagon" she decides that she doesn't want to vote for someone who is obviously going to be lynched (what chance would there be of someone appearing 2 min. before deadline to save him?) and wants a good discussion about votes (and how they vary). So is that a reason to do a throwaway for someone whom you don't really suspect? Just for generating discussion? And not being associated with the "bandwaggon"?

Whereas I should have jumped on it, as is the duty of all good citizens? I have said– what you have seemingly chosen to ignore– that I did not strongly suspect Pitch either. I had expression my suspicions of him, but I don't think I did so in such terms as to oblige me to go ahead and vote for him. Again– you're reaching.

EDIT:X'd since last post.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

And another thing–


Whereas I should have jumped on it, as is the duty of all good citizens? I have said– what you have seemingly chosen to ignore– that I did not strongly suspect Pitch either. I had expression my suspicions of him, but I don't think I did so in such terms as to oblige me to go ahead and vote for him. Again– you're reaching.

EDIT:X'd since last post.

Ok, but saying "I'll vote for someone that has less votes just so that the tally looks more interesting" is..... not what I consider to be a very good reason for a vote.

I now understand the point about you not choosing Pitch, which makes your vote be for your other suspect - Kath. But your explanation is....well, I've said it.

Putting myself in your shoes, if I saw I'd put the last nail in the coffin I would probably avoid voting that person or come up with a darned good reason to do so, since then I'd be suspected for jumping on the wagon. But that would automatically show that I value my own skin more than being honest with the village, and we all know what that means.

In your case, as I understood it, Pitch and Kath were equally suspicious. A choice between the devil and the deep blue sea, perhaps. But your reasoning is nonetheless suspicious, at least to me.

Edit: xed with Legate. I love being the center of attention.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Well, now that I *have* caught up in my reading– it looks even more to me like a forced suspicion– like she's seen a chance to lynch me after noting Kit and Greenie's posts on me.

Just for clarity, I hope it was understood that by that note I was referring to your post sounding genuine, not hers. I.e. it was meant to say: now this post made me feel slightly better about Nerwen.

I don't know, this is all rather difficult. I think I could easily divide village in some way into people who sound like innocents who defend themselves (like Nerwen) and people who sound somehow fake during that (like Gal). Or at least to some extent. Then also I am terribly afraid that we will mess something up mightily.

If somebody now pointed a gun to my head and I were to right now name three Wolves, I would say: Boro, Gal, Inzil. That is, leaving out those I don't hear much from at the moment (Laeko, Azura and Bom). There is also Kitanna in brackets, but I really don't know much about her.

Now okay, if I were to go with one of those three I just named, I would probably leave Boro be for the time being, so it would be either Gal or Zil. That is difficult, since Zil already has a vote, if I am not mistaken, therefore it would be easier to get him lynched. On the other hand, I really am not sure how to choose. There is still the "did the WWs think TEW dreamed of a Zilwolf, or are they framing him, or is it all just a coincidence?" thing (well, personally I think it is at least either of the first two - the problem is which one), that does not help much in the end if we don't know the answer.

But I am closer to deciding. And I have probably said all I wanted to, not that there is much. I will post, see if I cross-posted with somebody, then vote and go to sleep.

EDIT: x-ed with Laeko and others. Okay, that looks actually good - posts!

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Well, now that I *have* caught up in my reading– it looks even more to me like a forced suspicion– like she's seen a chance to lynch me after noting Kit and Greenie's posts on me.

Maybe you didn't notice that part, but I have been the first to say that your yesterDay's vote looked funny. In my very first post toDay.

And my suspicions on you strengthened with your reaction. I get the feeling that you're very concerned about getting the spotlight off yourself.


I know it's the norm for me to suspect innocents regardless of my own role, but does that mean that now I can't suspect you just because I missed the mark with Pitch and other people in previous games? Is there anything wrong with having suspicions? Not until they are pointed at you, perhaps?

Edit: xed since the post I quoted

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, I don't know, my head is not working properly anymore to evaluate stuff. I cannot say objectively whether it just seems to me that Gal is acting like a Wolf in defense or if it is genuine. However, based on everything previous, I am going to vote her, it is probably one little bit more probable that she is a Wolf than it is with Zil. And since I am deciding now between the two of them, it is decided.

++Galadriel55


Random remark: Laeko looks good after the last post. Believe innocent.

And good Night, people.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Kath

With those two votes ... I won't vote Bom. He hasn't been on yet toDay so can't defend himself. And I would like a reply from Nerwen about where I'm confused on her thoughts. So I'm not going to be voting for either of them.

So, you don't want to vote Bom, even though here:

Originally Posted by Kath

I'm clearly of a vastly different opinion on how the voting went yesterDay than some people. This is causing me to be suspicious of them. To me, there was no Pitch-wagon until Bom added a fourth vote with the time to be aware of the previous votes.

....you say you are suspicious of him for adding the fourth vote on Pitch? Just because he hasn't been here thus far shouldn't stop you from voting someone you legitimately suspect.

Originally Posted by Kath

Quick re-read of Galadriel and Inzil's posts. On a re-read, Galadriel didn't actually apologise, she just stated frustration. Inzil on the other hand definitely apologised and tried to backtrack on his suspicion.

I wouldn't say I "backtracked", though I did feel bad for voting him. It seems I always end up suspecting him and he's never guilty.

I think Nerwen looks more shiny than G55 at the moment. Also feeling rather good about Kit.

Boro is up to something. Good? Evil? Meh.

Legate seems to be his genuine innocent self.

Greenie seems sharp somehow. Not really sure what I mean by that, but she makes sense and gives me pause at the same time.

I still want to hear from Bom.

x/d with Legate and G55

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I think Nerwen looks more shiny than G55 at the moment.

I don't shine, I glow. It's up to you to decide what the glow is, though: the phial, Minas Morgul, or perhaps the Elessar. Though no Silmarils.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Maybe you didn't notice that part, but I have been the first to say that your yesterDay's vote looked funny. In my very first post toDay.

You mean this, my dear?

Originally Posted by G55

I'm kinda curious about Nerwen's vote yesterDay, but I doubt that a Nerwolf would be so careless about an almost-throwaway with little explanation (I have to look again, I don't remember how the tally looked when she voted.)

Originally Posted by G55

And my suspicions on you strengthened with your reaction.

Really. What exactly did I say that led you to jump from "kinda curious" to "99% sure I'm going to vote her"? Are you sure it wasn't Greenie and Kit's reactions?

Originally Posted by G55

I get the feeling that you're very concerned about getting the spotlight off yourself.

Well, naturally I'm not keen on getting lynched– but also, I'm rather keen on catching wolves, and your behaviour now is looking distinctly lupine. Like a wolf trying to find an alternative lynchee.

Originally Posted by G55

I know it's the norm for me to suspect innocents regardless of my own role, but does that mean that now I can't suspect you just because I missed the mark with Pitch and other people in previous games?

Aha. So you know I'm innocent?

Is there anything wrong with having suspicions? Not until they are pointed at you, perhaps?

Not until they look wolfish.

EDIT:X'd since G55 at #154.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Really. What exactly did I say that led you to jump from "kinda curious" to "99% sure I'm going to vote her"?

12 hours of meditation led me to it... (aka between my first post and the time I have been able to start posting again) Also the fact that Bom (my #2 suspect from yesterDay) did not show up toDay.

[/quote]Are you sure it wasn't Greenie and Kit's reactions?[/quote]

Quite sure, though you won't believe me anyways.

Well, naturally I'm not keen on getting lynched– but also, I'm rather keen on catching wolves, and your behaviour now is looking distinctly lupine. Like a wolf trying to find an alternative lynchee.

I could say the same about you.

Aha. So you know I'm innocent?

I think the whole point of suspecting someone is to think them to be guilty - until proven right or wrong by the mod.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Boro is up to something. Good? Evil? Meh.

Come on now, saying I'm up to something is like saying my jaw drops and I become speechless around shiny red hair.

You might not be cramped for time but you're better than this watered down, non-committing Inzil version you've been giving for nearing 2 days.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Nerwen: I was wary of the jump as well, but, well, I'll be frank. I rather suspect both of you.

To be honest, I suspect you and Kath more than Nerwen or G55.

Kath explained her vote Day 1 ok enough, but her posts after have been full of misunderstanding people it seems:

Originally Posted by Kath

I disagree with Boro about the cross-posting for Pitch. If all three cross-posted then to each person there was only one vote for Pitch for them at that time. They would have each been the first to vote. So how can their timing have been suspicious? There was no bandwagon until the cross-posting dust cleared.

Inzil said the time of Bom's vote made him the worst of the Pitch voters. And I said, the time didn't matter. Bom looked suspicious for apparently backing off Pitch, while still leaving the door open to vote for him later.

Boro for imagining a Pitch bandwagon and making a bigger deal out of it than there needs to be.

Coincedental cross-voting aside, there was still 4 straight votes for Pitch. So, how did I imagine a bandwagon?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Boro

Coincedental cross-voting aside, there was still 4 straight votes for Pitch. So, how did I imagine a bandwagon?

I cn see both sides. It depends on what you consider to be a bandwagon - just a clear trend to vote a certain person, or people jumping onto the trend. Did I understand this right?



++NERWEN



I probably will not be back for the rest of the Day, so I'm voting now, just in case. Good luck, village.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I cn see both sides. It depends on what you consider to be a bandwagon - just a clear trend to vote a certain person, or people jumping onto the trend. Did I understand this right?

Guess there's a difference. But in the case of jumping onto a trend, even though Bom's vote came last, you could say he started the trend too.

Vote count...

Kitanna ---> Bom
Greenie ---> Nerwen
Kath ---> Inzil
Legate ---> G55
G55 ---> Nerwen (2)

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Random remark: Laeko looks good after the last post. Believe innocent.

What I've seen toDay does look all right, but I'm not ready to say "innocent'.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

You might not be cramped for time but you're better than this watered down, non-committing Inzil version you've been giving for nearing 2 days.

It just that I'm riddled with ADHD, you s....hey, look! A dog with a curly tail!

Really, though. The interplay between G55 and Nerwen is reminiscent of Pitch and Bom yesterDay. I'd like to vote Bom, but it doesn't look like there'll be much support.

x/d with Boro

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

=
Really, though. The interplay between G55 and Nerwen is reminiscent of Pitch and Bom yesterDay. I'd like to vote Bom, but it doesn't look like there'll be much support.

I really don't like voting for someone who hasn't been around to answer or give a defense.

But of Nerwen, G55, or Bom, based on his actions and vote yesterday, Bom looks more suspicious and I'd rather vote him. Although, I'd prefer most to vote for sally or Kath. I wouldn't feel comfortable if I was forced to make a decision between G55 and Nerwen today.

Edit: crossed with Nerwen

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Boro

But of Nerwen, G55, or Bom, based on his actions and vote yesterday, Bom looks more suspicious and I'd rather vote him. Although, I'd prefer most to vote for sally or Kath. I wouldn't feel comfortable if I was forced to make a decision between G55 and Nerwen today.

Let it be noted that G55 has already been caught in a direct lie– see my previous post.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I really don't like voting for someone who hasn't been around to answer or give a defense.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I guess he'll have to make an appearance toMorrow.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

But of Nerwen, G55, or Bom, based on his actions and vote yesterday, Bom looks more suspicious and I'd rather vote him. Although, I'd prefer most to vote for sally or Kath. I wouldn't feel comfortable if I was forced to make a decision between G55 and Nerwen today.

I believe I could go for G55 based on what Nerwen's said, as well as the fact that she was involved in the Pitch-wagon yesterDay (along with, coincidentally, I'm sure, Bom ). It's hard for me to believe no wolves were involved with that.

x/d with Sally

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by G55

12 hours of meditation led me to it... (aka between my first post and the time I have been able to start posting again) Also the fact that Bom (my #2 suspect from yesterDay) did not show up toDay.

So it *wasn't* anything I said toDay at all. Even though you claimed it was, earlier. Well, well.

Originally Posted by G55

Quite sure, though you won't believe me anyways.

No, probably not– given the thing I just quoted.

I think the whole point of suspecting someone is to think them to be guilty - until proven right or wrong by the mod.

No, I thought you'd let slip that you know perfectly well I'm not a wolf. I see now that's not what you meant. Still a dubious-looking passage, I think– looks to me like you're already preparing your defence for toMorrow in the event that you manage to lynch me toDay. ("Ooops! Poor Nerwen– but, you know, it's just little me, I do that kind of thing...")

Originally Posted by G55

I don't shine, I glow. It's up to you to decide what the glow is, though: the phial, Minas Morgul, or perhaps the Elessar. Though no Silmarils.

Okay... that just raised the stakes. I can't interpret this as anything but a claim that you have a special role of *some* kind.

Originally Posted by Boro

Kath explained her vote Day 1 ok enough, but her posts after have been full of misunderstanding people it seems:

Coincedental cross-voting aside, there was still 4 straight votes for Pitch. So, how did I imagine a bandwagon?

I think this is a semantical quibble on the definition of "bandwaggon". She's saying it's not a waggon unless everyone votes in succession, and knowing about the previous votes. So technically this wasn't a bandwaggon, more of a "sudden group pounce". It was still peculiar, though, whatever you decide to call it.

EDIT:X'd since Boro at #161.