WW: LXXXVIII - Trouble in the Misty Mountains: Game Thread

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

What do you mean, gain an extra phase? Modfires lose us phases (assuming they're innocent, that is).

I'm really fine either way, but you're being pretty cavalier with our numbers.

I'm not going into that argument again.

I was assuming worst case scenario, to explain that either if we chose to lynch one of the mod-fireds, or lose 3 people today, it doesn't make a difference in the amount of days left.

Now if one of the mod-fireds or the person who's lynched today turns out to be a wolf, then this whole scenario is moot anyway.

I have no idea what you mean that I'm being cavalier with the numbers, just using them to say I agree with Kit.

[Kath]

Hate, hate, HATE tabs! Just lost my post. Re-writing.

Is modfire definitely happening? Because if not the debate isn't much use. Can the mod-God tell us? Or have I missed the question/response.

About my vote for sally yesterDay:

sally #1

Boro, my prince, hold me. Our beloved Shasta is dead, and these horrible villains could come after any one of us next. How will we cope?

Simple. We will run away, our lives again like the fairy tale of old, and we shall rid ourselves of this predicament and be free to be together forever. What say you, my love?

sally #2

Also, why do I feel like I'm trapped in Tolkien's rendition of Oregon Trail?

sally #3

Goddess? Oh, goodness! What all did they do to Shasta?

sally #4

Will the three live werewolves please stand up?

I regret nothing.

So where are the rest of you people? Even Nerwen showed up already.

sally #5

My sweet prince, I've simply missed you. Don't you trust me?

I remember the Days when we were happy and together, and the wolves couldn't threaten us. They were good Days, and I wish we could return to them. That's all.

And yes, don't vote me. Innocent!Sally is innocent, and that would be a bad move.

So....where are Kath and Greenie? Shouldn't the lovely ladies be around by now?

sally #6

There are less people to keep track of, so it's easier to keep track of them, and thus harder to hide sketchy interactions.

Yes?

<-- First time we get anything vaguely useful, 6 posts it. And it's not an idea of her own it's simply a retelling of Greenie's ramblings. Helpful interpretation but not helpful for interpretation.

At this point I had to vote. I don't believe on Day 1 that you're going to catch a wolf by careful, considered analysis. If you get one it's sheer dumb luck or it's because the wolf in question has done something monumentally silly to get caught. I was voting with 36 posts behind me - no one had accidentally (or purposefully!) revealed themselves. I want sally around. She's a good player. But she's not much help with the above level of posting. I hoped a vote-kick might push her into more posting.

sally #8 (7 was a time warning)

As much as I don't care for the unwarranted suspicion, this is hardly the first time Kath has done something like this, so I'll probably give her a pass....at least for toDay.

Won't vote:
Kath
Boro
Dun
Pitch
Greenie
Fresh Meat #1 and #2

<-- Look! A response to the thread with her own ideas and some information about her voting. I'm not taking total credit () but this is what I was after.

Off to look through TEW posts now. Assuming I don't close the tab again.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I am starting to be slightly suspicious of sally - first her generally noncommited attitude, "flies eat me", as we say (not sure if it is an international saying), several threatening remarks towards the newbies and urging other people to do something where she herself does not seem to do anything except for that, more or less. Any analyses of your own? Any relevant suspicions or stuff like that?

And secondly, this "let's lynch the modfired ones" theory. Okay, now these later posts of hers where she keeps dragging it on seem more genuine, as in, if it was only a fake, then she probably wouldn't drag it that long. But in the beginning, it sounded a bit as if she was bringing some random theory which could actually prevent us from lynching a Wolf toDay (proved that neither of the newbies is one, which actually I think they might be) but then backing away from proposing it just after people seemed frowning about it. But then again, if I really think about it, I can see even innocent Sally doing something like that. Still, I am sort of wary of her.

Maybe in relation to this I should remark that I am also not entirely sure about Boro, at one point when reading through this I started to even think of Sally-Boro cooperation. Now after reading Boro's frustration-post (the one before mine, proven I don't cross with anyone), that sounds genuine and it would have to be really well-orchestrated for him to do so with a Wolfmate (I mean the "I am not getting into that argument again" stuff). Still, there is something that makes me slightly uneasy about him, maybe it's also the fact that he seemed so... calm after my last reply to him, I am used to an innocent Boro being more like constantly prodding people, I would have expected him to start arguing with me or something. But maybe he's just being sensible, or I am underestimating his reasonability in general (in that case, sorry)

EDIT: okay, x-ed only with Kath, that's fine.

[Kath]

TEW. A trailless kill? A suspected Gifted? A set up?

TEW #1:
I largely agreed with most of the information in this. We've always struggled with how much to speculate about wolvish behaviour and he outlined that pretty well. I disagree with his reasoning about Legate but I think that's down to a different reading of Legate's actual post. So here we've got an early suspicion. Could lead to being suspected of Seerdom given fairly strong suspicion in a first post.

TEW #2:
I found this comment rather odd, about quieter people being easier to read. I would always have thought that makes it harder! The phrase 'flying under the reindeer' doesn't exist for nothing. Given that TEW then takes back his suspicion of Legate here the Seer note is perhaps less likely. The flip flop on Legate might suggest a Legate set up.

TEW #3:
I'm beginning to doubt thought that he was a trailless kill. Look how many people he mentions in each post. Here he states suspicion of Inzil for talking about wolf tactics. I actually agree with Inzil that wolves trying to communicate during the Day would be pointlessly risky so I'm not convinced about TEWs reasoning, but the point is the strong opinion TEW shared here.

TEW #4:
Oddly we now come to two people he seems to have no real opinion on despite analysis; Boro and Galadriel. If either of these were wolves then perhaps he would be more likely to be a trailless kill.

TEW #5:
Votes Inzil for the wolf tactic talk. A reasoned vote based on personal analysis of the text.

So I'm thinking really not a trailless kill unless Galadriel or Boro are wolves. Could be an attempt at a Legate set up - if so I'd think we have very bold or very new wolves given Legate voted for him making the connection obvious.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Kath

Is modfire definitely happening? Because if not the debate isn't much use. Can the mod-God tell us? Or have I missed the question/response.

Actually, we're only going on suppositions, but the normal scenario is that a lack of voting two consecutive Days leads to modfire. We have one who has posted (albeit nothing of any apparent consequence), but has not voted yet, and one that hasn't appeared at all.

Where are you, Bom? Why so silent now?

x/d with Legate and Kath

[Kath]

Actually, we're only going on suppositions, but the normal scenario is that a lack of voting two consecutive Days leads to modfire. We have one who has posted (albeit nothing of any apparent consequence), but has not voted yet, and one that hasn't appeared at all.

Sure Inzil but in a small game like this it isn't always automatic as it can end the game so quickly so I was hoping for some confirmation either way. Although it's not a pleasant thing to think about I think it is important if we are definitely going to lose two players whatever as well as the lynched player.

[Galadriel55]

I'm reading through toDay's posts, and I noticed that some people are suspecting me for "mixing up Pitch and Bom". I get where the other suspicions are comming from, but this one is just unreasonable, at least from my perspective. I was on the verge of holding my eyes to keep them open, thinking "Bom was Ranger" and writing "he was Ranger". The result is that people thought I'm talking about Pitch. Well, I get that, and I clarified toDay. And I'm still suspected.

I am simply curious about how that could be a basis for suspicion. Kit?


Anyways, I'm continuing to read, so some more important comments likely to follow.

Edit: xed with Kath

[Galadriel55]

...Pretty much have nothing new to say. I think that lynching the mod-fired would be a good idea if by the end of toDay we don't have any better candidate. If we do - then we should go for the suspects who actually posted and try to benifit from the votes and the trail etc.

Reasonable? Possibly...

Except that we all vote and drop out at different times. That may be a problem in the plan: it's still gonna be disorganised and your regular D2, nothing special, no voting for agreed person (well, it's WW, we can't exactly all agree, right? That's the whole point of it...) That's Wolfadriel55 the cynic for you (or the realist, if you prefer). And now to talk about something less ranty -

YesterDay I was neutral about sally and slightly suspicious of Boro, but toDay they seem to be more innocent than not. Their toDay's posts give me good vibes. Looking at them both separately and together (a lot of back-and-forths between them), they don't sound like wolves.

Bom is certainly one whom I want to make an appearance.

Nerwen continues to puzzle me. If she's a wolf she's a daring one. Her reference to "her to-kill-list" would be a dangerous step for a wolf, but for all I know she might be expecting me to think that this shows her innocence while hiding her furry identity... Or she just might be innocent.... *is dizzy (actually)*

Originally Posted by Kath

Sure Inzil but in a small game like this it isn't always automatic as it can end the game so quickly so I was hoping for some confirmation either way. Although it's not a pleasant thing to think about I think it is important if we are definitely going to lose two players whatever as well as the lynched player.

Which is why I was thinking of trying to make the votes organised: if we have an obvious suspect - lynch him/her, if we don't - lynch the modfireds.

[Galadriel55]

What?! It's been an hour, and I didn't cross with anyone?!

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Still, there is something that makes me slightly uneasy about him, maybe it's also the fact that he seemed so... calm after my last reply to him, I am used to an innocent Boro being more like constantly prodding people, I would have expected him to start arguing with me or something. But maybe he's just being sensible, or I am underestimating his reasonability in general (in that case, sorry)

I'm slightly uneasy about the sorry and smile, as it's always hard to argue with someone who's responding kindly and apologetic.

But, serious now, if I thought it would do any good I would have no trouble getting into an old-fashioned firestorm. Thing is, as G55 also remembered, last time I got into a passionate flame war all that happened was the hunter and ranger were revealed on Day 1. So, I'm attempting to remember someone can in fact disagree with me and not be a wolf. And while the situation right now is pretty intense, it's not loose-cannon mode quite yet.

Yes, we seem to disagree on why TEW was killed and the use of trying to figure out why he was killed. Although, I didn't make too much mention of it, I did think earlier today it was you attempting to steer everyone in a certain direction. But that was far from your focus, you were ready to move on to prodding people of your own, and so I'm not going to start an epic firestorm of arguments when it wouldn't do any good.

Make no mistake, I don't trust your judgement more than my own, but I trust you enough to say you appear to have good intentions so far.

[Galadriel55]

The time that I can actually sit at the computer for more than a coupe hours straight there's hardly any posts. So I'm going to talk about Boro's last post. :/

Thing is, as G55 also remembered, last time I got into a passionate flame war all that happened was the hunter and ranger were revealed on Day 1.

No, only you revealed on D1. Seer revealed on D2 with 2 dreamed wolves, and Ranger!Bom revealed on D3 to back up the Seer's claim (since he protected him the Night before). Then there were 2 fake-reveals of the revealed wolves, and then everyone went silly, so we had a dozen seers, hunters, rangers, mods, a werebear, a Necromancer, and even a Doctor (plus other maddness that I can't remember). And the moddess revealed to be the last wolf. Fun times.

But the point that I made still stands: if you argue with Bom about his jokes you'll get nowhere good... unless the Seer has 2 wolves on the hook.

[Galadriel55]

Yes, I'm that bored...... and no, I'm not even touching schoolwork today....

In fact I'm so bored that I will post a picture of a guest from Elftown:



*yawn*

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Yes, I'm that bored...... and no, I'm not even touching schoolwork today....

In fact I'm so bored that I will post a picture of a guest from Elftown:



*yawn*

Ever think about re-channeling the boredom into doing a who you suspect list?

[Laeko_Randalis]

Boy do peole write a lot. But darned if I'm gonna be mod-fired that easily.

Quoting Boromir: #113 "But I can't see either you or Inzil being bothered much, by vague and slight suspicions if you were wolves."

Not to mention, it's usually very unwise to kill the person who voted for you. Then again, if there'd be any time TO do it, it would be the first kill, before "relationships" have been established and everyone's still all fuzzy about… well, everything!

And as has been pointed out, it's still early in the game, and it's just as likely that the wolves are as scared as the rest of us, wanting to make sure not to give themselves away. And hey, it does make a heck of a distraction to kill a target that they don't have much to go on.

Sally: #116, "benefiting us innocents?" You seem somewhat eager to point out your innocence, and that is making you seem suspicious. Then again, that's been pointed out before, so either you missed it, you forgot about it, or you're hoping that by repeatedly proclaiming your supposed innocence that you convince us that way. Have no idea whether that will work or not.

Cripes, I hate being a newbie, though the "protection" is nice, I suppose.

[Kath]

I need to vote now as I'm going to bed.

Timezones suck. I really want a definite answer on modfires and it looks like I'm not going to get one.

What I'm tempted to do is to vote for a potential modfire candidate. That way if Shasta does say modfire is happening then you guys can figure out what to do and my vote might come in useful.

On the other hand, clearly I don't actually suspect either of the potential modfire candidates as there is nothing to suspect them for!

So what I shall do is post this and go off and make my customary list to see if there is someone I have reason to suspect. In the meantime if there are any thoughts on the above please say.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Laeko_Randalis

Sally: #116, "benefiting us innocents?" You seem somewhat eager to point out your innocence, and that is making you seem suspicious. Then again, that's been pointed out before, so either you missed it, you forgot about it, or you're hoping that by repeatedly proclaiming your supposed innocence that you convince us that way. Have no idea whether that will work or not.

I've made note of that as well. It does tend to be something of a Sallyism to declare herself innocent, though I don't seem to recall it happening so frequently under negligible threat of lynching.

Originally Posted by Laeko_Randalis

Cripes, I hate being a newbie, though the "protection" is nice, I suppose.

Just keep in mind newbie-passes expire Day 2.

Originally Posted by Kath

On the other hand, clearly I don't actually suspect either of the potential modfire candidates as there is nothing to suspect them for!

And one of them has now appeared.

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I meant I didn't want there to be a single bandwaggon that just about everyone voted in– that leaves little or nothing to analyse the next Day.

I'm not crazy about this reasoning. Bandwagons like the one against Pitch can reveal a lot. He was suspicious to a number of people and everyone had a different reason. It's not like the bandwagon of possible modfires Sally suggested that leaves no traces. But more importantly I don't like that you brought up this plan after Boro. Seemed too opportunistic.

Originally Posted by Greenie

Kitanna - Really sharp, not sure about her alignment though!

I have clearly aligned with myself. Team Kit!

Originally Posted by Sally

Incidentally, we have at least two players in danger of modfire toDay. This does not bode well. We need everyone to participate and vote, or the wolves will win without a fight.

I have already disagreed with your plan, but if it wasn't a complete waste I would vote for them on the grounds of being inconsiderate. If you're not going to comment or vote at all wait until you can join a game where you can. /anger

Originally Posted by Sally

I'd probably try it if I didn't like where the lynch was headed (e.g. someone I trusted was alone on the block).

Someone you trusted like a fellow wolf, perhaps?

Originally Posted by Boro

Of the Pitch voters, Bom's reasons are the most suspicious. His vote for Pitch came after a post where he sort of backs off:

He sort of backs off, but doesn't, by leaving the door open to vote Pitch if nothing else happens.

I missed the post by Bom. I wish I had seen that before voting yesterday. I don't know if I'd have changed my vote, but it would have given me more to consider. Bom's pretty much disappeared today and that's a shame because I wasn't done suspecting him. But I won't sit here and regurgitate what I've already said about him.

Originally Posted by Kath

I want sally around. She's a good player. But she's not much help with the above level of posting. I hoped a vote-kick might push her into more posting.

I tend to go after Sally because she makes more posts than anyone, but only about 10% or her posts have substance. So I sympathize with Kath there. But even so there are better ways to scare up a Sally than a vote. But I guess when you're pressed for time you have to work with what you got. Still...

Originally Posted by G55

I am simply curious about how that could be a basis for suspicion. Kit?

Every slip of the tongue is scrutinized in WW, for better or worse. The more important suspicion for me is the fact you said you were voting for Pitch out of spite, but he'd garnered a lot of suspicion already. You cross posted so you thought you were the first to vote for him, but he had a lot of buzz and so I don't buy you "out of spite" reasoning.

Originally Posted by Laeko

Cripes, I hate being a newbie, though the "protection" is nice, I suppose.

I'm against protecting your lot. You're lucky you didn't really say anything yesterday.

I got no time today. If I live until Day 3 I will be around for actual comment. I only had some time to skim and I narrowed my choices to Nerwen, G55, and Bom. For now I'm putting Kath on a watch list because I still don't like her vote reasoning. But I like the others less.

++ Bom

He hasn't said anything today...that I noticed at least. But I reread his posts and his comment about Pitch being vicious got Pitch all worked up and I used that as a reason to vote Pitch yesterday. Upon rereading his posts I find that a pretty wolfish move. It made Pitch look bad when he reacted (at least in my eyes) and kept him prevalent in people's minds. He backed off Pitch, but still voted for him. Not good at all.

[satansaloser2005]

The mod has spoken (well, texted). Normal modfire rules apply.


X'd with Kit

[A Little Green]

Good news? I'm back. Bad news? It's past 2 AM my time.

Originally Posted by Gal

That's Wolfadriel55 the cynic for you (or the realist, if you prefer).

Err - this is a joke, right? Right?

[A Little Green]

Be that as it may, I need a bed now. Thought I'd be back sooner but no can do, shuld be more available toMorrow if I'm still alive. Going after my current top suspect,

++ Nerwen

For her reactions to Pitch and the Pitchwaggon. (More detailed reasons are to be found in my earlier posts.)

Good night folks! Oh, and Lommy and Nog say hi.

[Kath]

Vote tally from yesterDay:

Kath --> sally (As an incentive to be useful!)
Pitch --> Galadriel (For refusing to join in with useful discussion.)
Legate --> TEW (As an incentive to stop being lazy.)
Inzil --> Pitch (For accusing him of harping on and switching suspects suddenly.)
Kitanna --> Pitch (For trying to help packmate Bom not seem so wolvish? I think? Not sure here.)
Galadriel --> Pitch (For meta-game reasons.)
(Inzil, Kitanna and Galadriel all cross-posted these votes.)
Bom --> Pitch (Makes it 4 votes. No explanation in the vote post.)
Boro --> Kath (To make sure I explained my vote toDay.)
TEW --> Inzil (No explanation in vote post but based on previous suspicions.)
sally --> TEW (For a forced feel to his posts.)
Nerwen --> Kath (For an ill-reasoned vote.)

Didn't vote:
Greenie (I've been ignoring her as a modfire candidate. She'll vote toDay I'm sure.)
Azura
Laeko

Well it's pretty clear that Bom struck the decisive blow for Pitch. Having seen three cross-posted votes he definitely put the final nail in that coffin. If he is a wolf that seems a very bold move. Based just on this the people I'd be most suspicious of would be TEW and sally, given their votes. They knew Greenie wasn't reappearing and one newbie hadn't shown at all. Yet their votes go to two completely unrepresented people in the vote tally thus far. Throwaway votes really. TEW though we now know to be innocent. Therefore I can't be certain the same isn't true for sally.

So, to toDay:
Nerwen - said TEW would be trailless but hadn't yet checked the posts. Question about the analysis: She says the wolves shouldn't have seen TEW as Gifted given he backed off from the Legate suspicion, but then goes on to mention his 'nervous Gifted' behaviour. Either I'm not following your train of thought or you've flip flopped there Nerwen? I like the sword icon catch though.

Legate - good reasoning behind his ideas. Going for the no-trace option which I think is less likely, but is possible. Starts to suspect Galadriel after the same post I just read and didn't like. Going the opposite way to sally - thinking we have wolves laying low. Starting to suspect sally for not joining in. (Seeing a theme her Legate!). And Boro for not being jumpy enough I think!

Galadriel - voted for Pitch for meta-game reasons and then says he seemed so suspicious. Don't like that. An organised lynch is like a ... something that doesn't work. Pretty much unless the Seer reveals a wolf name near the beginning of the Day it just doesn't happen that everyone votes together. There can never be enough trust.

Kitanna - posts as a train of thought! I like it. I'm not convinced about being suspicious of someone for muddling names up, it happens. Her other thoughts on Galadriel are pretty well reasoned though. I've discussed my vote. I hadn't thought about Nerwen's vote for me being suspicious. I was more pleased that she had chosen someone already on the potential lynch-list rather than a throwaway. Argues against modfire - reasonably. Ends up voting Bom for some well thought through reasons I think. Only thing I don't like about it is that Bom hasn't spoken yet toDay and it is tough voting someone when they haven't had a chance to defend themselves. That said, time limits are time limits.

Greenie - ambivalence about sally, suspicion of Nerwen for pushing others to suspect Pitch while avoiding it herself but then pretty much takes it back so nothing definite there. Suspects Zil but no reasoning/analysis.

sally - says she's ill. States she wanted to lynch TEW. A little odd given he's just been proven innocent. Feels we may have bold wolves. Meaning what sally? Loudmouths? Bandwaggonning voters? Begins the modfire discussion. sally says modfires lose us phases but 'I'm really fine either way, but you're being pretty cavalier with our numbers.' Sorry, you can't be fine about doing either, and be accusing someone else of being cavalier about numbers. If the modfires gain us phases then great, more Days to try and catch a wolf. If they lose us phases, fewer Days to try and catch a wolf. 'Fine either way' isn't really acceptable then!

Inzil - really don't like it when people apologise for their votes posthumously (ach, that's not the right words but you know what I mean.) Seems to scream guilt. Could be a particular playing style but even if so I don't like it. Some suspicion of Bom for his vote placement. Agrees with Kitanna about not voting modfires.

Boro - tries to meld the trailless kill vs set up options. Yeah fair point there could be more than one reason going on. TEW was chosen and there must have been a reason why he was chosen over others. Largely I think that has been decently analysed toDay. Questions Legate about his vote. Argues against modfires. I disagree with Boro about the cross-posting for Pitch. If all three cross-posted then to each person there was only one vote for Pitch for them at that time. They would have each been the first to vote. So how can their timing have been suspicious? There was no bandwagon until the cross-posting dust cleared.

Laeko - hey! Our newbie reappeared! This may change our entire modfire thoughts anyway! I like this so far - some good thoughts and reasoned suspicion of sally.

And just saw sally's post about Shasta's text. Normal modfire rules are ...? No vote for two Days or no posts for two Days?

Ok, posting this, going to do a vote tally for toDay (hah! That'll be time-consuming ) and then I'll vote.

[Kath]

Kitanna --> Bom (For setting up Pitch yesterDay.)
Greenie --> Nerwen (For how she reacted to everything surrounding Pitch.)

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Err - this is a joke, right? Right?

No, I am a wolf, I thought that was an obvious fact.


Of course it's a joke. Though not the part about the cynic. ^.^

Originally Posted by Laeko

Cripes, I hate being a newbie, though the "protection" is nice, I suppose.

I, for one, rode that protection to a gallant defeat on my first game (I was wolf). It was fun seeing all the analyses say "G55 looks so wolfish... but she's just a confused innocent making newbie mistakes".

My conclusion: whatever alignment Laeko might be of, I am willing to let her (him?) have the fun of being newbie for an extra Day. She wasn't round much on Day 1, and I think she should have the chance to participate a bit before being bombarded with accusations. (Plus, we don't have much to accuse on.)

Originally Posted by Boro

Ever think about re-channeling the boredom into doing a who you suspect list?

If only you posted before my internet collapsed! (Well, at least that gave me something to do...)


Anyways, one of the top on my suspicion list atm is Nerwen. Perhaps even the highest, since Bom is no-show toDay (where art thou?). Some things about her just don't make sene. There's her vote and some of her statements. I can't ever read her, but she's making me nervous. I'm probably voting her toDay, unless something happens between now and bedtime (such as an appearance from either her or Bom with some things that will change their position on my list for th worst or for the better).

Edit: xed since Greenie's vote.

[Kath]

With those two votes ... I won't vote Bom. He hasn't been on yet toDay so can't defend himself. And I would like a reply from Nerwen about where I'm confused on her thoughts. So I'm not going to be voting for either of them.

I'm clearly of a vastly different opinion on how the voting went yesterDay than some people. This is causing me to be suspicious of them. To me, there was no Pitch-wagon until Bom added a fourth vote with the time to be aware of the previous votes.

Possibilities:
Galadriel or Inzil for apologising for voting Pitch. I just find that very suspicious. It's like going 'Oh silly me! Don't blame me now, will you?'

sally for being hypocritical about the modfire situation. You do the same thing as someone else they can't be bad and you be good.

Boro for imagining a Pitch bandwagon and making a bigger deal out of it than there needs to be.

Quick re-read of Galadriel and Inzil's posts. On a re-read, Galadriel didn't actually apologise, she just stated frustration. Inzil on the other hand definitely apologised and tried to backtrack on his suspicion.

++INZIL

And to bed.

X-POST with Galadriel

[satansaloser2005]

Kath: Yes. Two Days without voting equals death.


Based on both yesterDay's malarkey and reactions to my modfire plan toDay....

I will not vote for:
Kath
Kit
Greenie
Dun
Legate


I'm also excluding the newbies, of course, you silly people. Thank you very much for reacting to the plan, however.



Undoubtedly x'd

[Galadriel55]

Forgetting to say this in the last post I make this a separate post:

I find Nerwen's explanation of her vote slightly peculiar.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I might vote her, simply *because* I don't want a universal bandwaggon – and yeah, her vote was suspect, all right. The only thing I could say about it, really, is that this being *Kath*, she may honestly not realise what you're *supposed* to do on Day One. (Trouble is, looking at Kath tnds to bring Pitch back into it anyway.)

She suspects Kath for her vote for sally, but lets it go because of Kath's usual Day Ones. After the "Pitchwagon" she decides that she doesn't want to vote for someone who is obviously going to be lynched (what chance would there be of someone appearing 2 min. before deadline to save him?) and wants a good discussion about votes (and how they vary). So is that a reason to do a throwaway for someone whom you don't really suspect? Just for generating discussion? And not being associated with the "bandwaggon"?

The more I look at it the fishier it seems.

So once again, unless Nerwen comes with convincing explanations (or corrections, if I have misread her reasoning), I'm 99% sure I'm voting her.



PS:

Originally Posted by Kath

Galadriel - voted for Pitch for meta-game reasons and then says he seemed so suspicious

When exactly did I say this after my vote? Either you are misreading my posts or I am misreading yours. It's true that toDay I "stated frustration", as you put it, but where, toDay, have I said that he was so suspicious (so it's his own fault he was lynched)?

I think many people misunderstand the explanation for my vote yesterDay. I had suspicions for both Bom and Pitch. There were two things that tipped the balance towards Pitch: the ones that I listed. But they were like "last straws", not the foundation.

[Nerwen]

Back and reading,

And just a little note– anyone else think the poster above me (G55) sound like she's sort of– reaching? Or am I just taking things personally?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, it is late for me, I feel incredibly tired and I should vote: not a very good combination in the end. Of the possibilities, I don't want to vote Laeko or Azura again, since either there will be a modfire, or then there is little to go with and let's give them a chance. Once. (I won't drag this forever, but even if one of them is a Wolf, it is still only one Wolf, at most two. There still would be somebody out there.) Something similar goes for Bom: just where might he be??

I am still not 100% convinced about Boro, even after his reply to me, he just seems too, arrgh, Mr. Agreeable. Maybe Pitch was in fact reincarnated?

Kath still looks okay to me. Greenie does, well, maybe not look okay in the same sense as Kath does (i.e. does not look innocentish), but does not look guilty either. I am not sure if I should put Nerwen into this group: like Greenie, she does not seem outwardly guilty in any way, but makes me nervous for some reason.

Sally... it's difficult. Kitanna... hard to tell, but inclined to say... hmm... well, in fact, I don't know. Similar with Inzil. These three would deserve more looking at, but I am not really in the state to do it. Which does not actually comfort me very much.

G55 was somewhat suspicious to me basically up to right now, when I am seeing her continuous elaborate posts. Maybe she is just a Wolf with too much time on her hands, but for some reason, I can imagine Wolf doing rather something else than posting analyses of people all the time.

I wonder whom did I forget. Hopefully nobody. But now, short time to think.

EDIT: xed with Nerwen. To note: this sounded genuine.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Kath

Nerwen - said TEW would be trailless but hadn't yet checked the posts. Question about the analysis: She says the wolves shouldn't have seen TEW as Gifted given he backed off from the Legate suspicion, but then goes on to mention his 'nervous Gifted' behaviour. Either I'm not following your train of thought or you've flip flopped there Nerwen? I like the sword icon catch though.

Kath, I don't think you can have read my post there properly– I was talking about several different possible scenarios, and you seem to have merged them.

Originally Posted by Legate

To note: this sounded genuine.

Well, now that I *have* caught up in my reading– it looks even more to me like a forced suspicion– like she's seen a chance to lynch me after noting Kit and Greenie's posts on me.

[Laeko_Randalis]

Kit, #137 I'm against protecting your lot. You're lucky you didn't really say anything yesterday.

Sounds like SOMEpony's jealous. Nah, just kidding. You drive a hard, cold logic, but you seem legit nevertheless. Maybe a little too serious, but legit.

And yes, to everypony else, I do understand that my protection ends tonight. I honestly didn't ask for it and the only reason I'm thankful for it is because it took me a while to get into the habit of checking this thread. I might actually be bummed to see Azura go, because it looks like he's gonna get modfired unless he does something last-minute.

Regarding Bom, I didn't like the first impression I got, but that was a combination of the vibe I got from his post combined with his usericon (I know, that's stupid, but his post and his picture seemed to communicate a logical predator cooly observing his prey). But first impressions over texted internet are easily misleading, so I'm going to hope he posts more and see what happens. Hopefully I'll wind up liking him as much as I like his screenname.

If Sally confessed to wanting to lynch TEW after he was proven innocent, my first conclusion is that she's being honest and confessing her mistake (though I missed the post in which she said it. Weird, I could have sworn I read everything after TEW died). Then again, upon further reading, I now understand the suspicion of lynch-apologizing.

[satansaloser2005]

Nerwen: I was wary of the jump as well, but, well, I'll be frank. I rather suspect both of you.

EDIT: clarification, x'd with Laeko

[Nerwen]

And another thing–

Originally Posted by G55

She suspects Kath for her vote for sally, but lets it go because of Kath's usual Day Ones. After the "Pitchwagon" she decides that she doesn't want to vote for someone who is obviously going to be lynched (what chance would there be of someone appearing 2 min. before deadline to save him?) and wants a good discussion about votes (and how they vary). So is that a reason to do a throwaway for someone whom you don't really suspect? Just for generating discussion? And not being associated with the "bandwaggon"?

Whereas I should have jumped on it, as is the duty of all good citizens? I have said– what you have seemingly chosen to ignore– that I did not strongly suspect Pitch either. I had expression my suspicions of him, but I don't think I did so in such terms as to oblige me to go ahead and vote for him. Again– you're reaching.

EDIT:X'd since last post.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Well, now that I *have* caught up in my reading– it looks even more to me like a forced suspicion– like she's seen a chance to lynch me after noting Kit and Greenie's posts on me.

Just for clarity, I hope it was understood that by that note I was referring to your post sounding genuine, not hers. I.e. it was meant to say: now this post made me feel slightly better about Nerwen.

I don't know, this is all rather difficult. I think I could easily divide village in some way into people who sound like innocents who defend themselves (like Nerwen) and people who sound somehow fake during that (like Gal). Or at least to some extent. Then also I am terribly afraid that we will mess something up mightily.

If somebody now pointed a gun to my head and I were to right now name three Wolves, I would say: Boro, Gal, Inzil. That is, leaving out those I don't hear much from at the moment (Laeko, Azura and Bom). There is also Kitanna in brackets, but I really don't know much about her.

Now okay, if I were to go with one of those three I just named, I would probably leave Boro be for the time being, so it would be either Gal or Zil. That is difficult, since Zil already has a vote, if I am not mistaken, therefore it would be easier to get him lynched. On the other hand, I really am not sure how to choose. There is still the "did the WWs think TEW dreamed of a Zilwolf, or are they framing him, or is it all just a coincidence?" thing (well, personally I think it is at least either of the first two - the problem is which one), that does not help much in the end if we don't know the answer.

But I am closer to deciding. And I have probably said all I wanted to, not that there is much. I will post, see if I cross-posted with somebody, then vote and go to sleep.

EDIT: x-ed with Laeko and others. Okay, that looks actually good - posts!

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Well, now that I *have* caught up in my reading– it looks even more to me like a forced suspicion– like she's seen a chance to lynch me after noting Kit and Greenie's posts on me.

Maybe you didn't notice that part, but I have been the first to say that your yesterDay's vote looked funny. In my very first post toDay.

And my suspicions on you strengthened with your reaction. I get the feeling that you're very concerned about getting the spotlight off yourself.


I know it's the norm for me to suspect innocents regardless of my own role, but does that mean that now I can't suspect you just because I missed the mark with Pitch and other people in previous games? Is there anything wrong with having suspicions? Not until they are pointed at you, perhaps?

Edit: xed since the post I quoted

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, I don't know, my head is not working properly anymore to evaluate stuff. I cannot say objectively whether it just seems to me that Gal is acting like a Wolf in defense or if it is genuine. However, based on everything previous, I am going to vote her, it is probably one little bit more probable that she is a Wolf than it is with Zil. And since I am deciding now between the two of them, it is decided.

++Galadriel55


Random remark: Laeko looks good after the last post. Believe innocent.

And good Night, people.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

And another thing–


Whereas I should have jumped on it, as is the duty of all good citizens? I have said– what you have seemingly chosen to ignore– that I did not strongly suspect Pitch either. I had expression my suspicions of him, but I don't think I did so in such terms as to oblige me to go ahead and vote for him. Again– you're reaching.

EDIT:X'd since last post.

Ok, but saying "I'll vote for someone that has less votes just so that the tally looks more interesting" is..... not what I consider to be a very good reason for a vote.

I now understand the point about you not choosing Pitch, which makes your vote be for your other suspect - Kath. But your explanation is....well, I've said it.

Putting myself in your shoes, if I saw I'd put the last nail in the coffin I would probably avoid voting that person or come up with a darned good reason to do so, since then I'd be suspected for jumping on the wagon. But that would automatically show that I value my own skin more than being honest with the village, and we all know what that means.

In your case, as I understood it, Pitch and Kath were equally suspicious. A choice between the devil and the deep blue sea, perhaps. But your reasoning is nonetheless suspicious, at least to me.

Edit: xed with Legate. I love being the center of attention.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Kath

With those two votes ... I won't vote Bom. He hasn't been on yet toDay so can't defend himself. And I would like a reply from Nerwen about where I'm confused on her thoughts. So I'm not going to be voting for either of them.

So, you don't want to vote Bom, even though here:

Originally Posted by Kath

I'm clearly of a vastly different opinion on how the voting went yesterDay than some people. This is causing me to be suspicious of them. To me, there was no Pitch-wagon until Bom added a fourth vote with the time to be aware of the previous votes.

....you say you are suspicious of him for adding the fourth vote on Pitch? Just because he hasn't been here thus far shouldn't stop you from voting someone you legitimately suspect.

Originally Posted by Kath

Quick re-read of Galadriel and Inzil's posts. On a re-read, Galadriel didn't actually apologise, she just stated frustration. Inzil on the other hand definitely apologised and tried to backtrack on his suspicion.

I wouldn't say I "backtracked", though I did feel bad for voting him. It seems I always end up suspecting him and he's never guilty.

I think Nerwen looks more shiny than G55 at the moment. Also feeling rather good about Kit.

Boro is up to something. Good? Evil? Meh.

Legate seems to be his genuine innocent self.

Greenie seems sharp somehow. Not really sure what I mean by that, but she makes sense and gives me pause at the same time.

I still want to hear from Bom.

x/d with Legate and G55

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Maybe you didn't notice that part, but I have been the first to say that your yesterDay's vote looked funny. In my very first post toDay.

You mean this, my dear?

Originally Posted by G55

I'm kinda curious about Nerwen's vote yesterDay, but I doubt that a Nerwolf would be so careless about an almost-throwaway with little explanation (I have to look again, I don't remember how the tally looked when she voted.)

Originally Posted by G55

And my suspicions on you strengthened with your reaction.

Really. What exactly did I say that led you to jump from "kinda curious" to "99% sure I'm going to vote her"? Are you sure it wasn't Greenie and Kit's reactions?

Originally Posted by G55

I get the feeling that you're very concerned about getting the spotlight off yourself.

Well, naturally I'm not keen on getting lynched– but also, I'm rather keen on catching wolves, and your behaviour now is looking distinctly lupine. Like a wolf trying to find an alternative lynchee.

Originally Posted by G55

I know it's the norm for me to suspect innocents regardless of my own role, but does that mean that now I can't suspect you just because I missed the mark with Pitch and other people in previous games?

Aha. So you know I'm innocent?

Is there anything wrong with having suspicions? Not until they are pointed at you, perhaps?

Not until they look wolfish.

EDIT:X'd since G55 at #154.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Really. What exactly did I say that led you to jump from "kinda curious" to "99% sure I'm going to vote her"?

12 hours of meditation led me to it... (aka between my first post and the time I have been able to start posting again) Also the fact that Bom (my #2 suspect from yesterDay) did not show up toDay.

[/quote]Are you sure it wasn't Greenie and Kit's reactions?[/quote]

Quite sure, though you won't believe me anyways.

Well, naturally I'm not keen on getting lynched– but also, I'm rather keen on catching wolves, and your behaviour now is looking distinctly lupine. Like a wolf trying to find an alternative lynchee.

I could say the same about you.

Aha. So you know I'm innocent?

I think the whole point of suspecting someone is to think them to be guilty - until proven right or wrong by the mod.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I think Nerwen looks more shiny than G55 at the moment.

I don't shine, I glow. It's up to you to decide what the glow is, though: the phial, Minas Morgul, or perhaps the Elessar. Though no Silmarils.