'Elven Music in Our Times', Mira Sommer

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

In fact, I can't recall elves dancing at all. At least not physically.

Oh, but of course they did! Remember Luthien in the forest of Neldoreth?

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

There's a tradition of healing music in Japan, using the Zen bamboo flute (the Shakuhachi), which also to me sounds like something the elves would get into. But I don't imagine many Downers would second me on that.

I definitely would! I don't find it at all hard to imagine that Daeron or Tinfang Warble playing the flute could have sounded like this; or, if you'd like something a bit less cuddly and New-Agey, maybe that.
I also hear something Elvish in Chinese/Japanese compositions for the pipa, like e.g
Dance music for a festive evening in Rivendell
A tone poem commemorating the heroic struggles of the Noldor in the First Age
(titles invented by me)
What I find interesting about this kind of music is that one the one hand, it's very disciplined and rigorously elegant, while on the other hand (at least to European ears) it does have a weird, 'otherworldly' (...not going to discuss that in mid-sentence...) charm and, in some pieces (esp. the last one I linked) a wild, fairish abandon that really rocks. Very Elvish on both sides of the scale, as far as I'm concerned.

Gwath, I think I totally see where you're coming from. Keeping in tune with the idea of Middle-earth as calque on medieval/Dark Age Europe, it certainly makes sense to look for parallels to Elven music within the European musical tradition, whether Celtic or Gregorian.
But it just occurred to me that the culture of Middle-earth as described in the book is probably just as much a translation from the (imaginary) original as the English of the narrative representing the Westron of the 'real' Red Book. As The Prof himself said in LotR, Appendix F:

This linguistic procedure [i.e. representing the Rohirric language by Anglo-Saxon, Pw.] does not imply that the Rohirrim closely resembled the ancient English otherwise, in culture or art, in weapons or modes of warfare, except in a general way due to their circumstances [...]

We find non-European cultural influences in various parts of the Legendarium. Both Adûnaic and Khuzdûl were modelled on the Semitic language family. The Tengwar have a lot in common with Asian scripts like Devanagari or its descendants (in structural principle, if not in actual letter shapes). So why couldn't the 'original' music of the Elves have sounded like something from Tunisia or China?

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Oh, but of course they did! Remember Luthien in the forest of Neldoreth?

Well, I was thinking just in terms of LotR, but how could I forget the most famous teenage elf? Interesting, though, that Luthien's dancing is a private, solitary dance, almost a communion with the forest and natural world, and not a social activity or performance, even if secretly observed.

I definitely would! I don't find it at all hard to imagine that Daeron or Tinfang Warble playing the flute could have sounded like this; or, if you'd like something a bit less cuddly and New-Agey, maybe that.
I also hear something Elvish in Chinese/Japanese compositions for the pipa, like e.g
Dance music for a festive evening in Rivendell
A tone poem commemorating the heroic struggles of the Noldor in the First Age
(titles invented by me)

Thanks for those links. Yes, that's what I was thinking of with the shakuhachi. I've sat through an hour concert of it and it was one of the most serene and uplifting musical experiences I've ever had, very different from western concerts, either of symphony or rock/pop or church.

[Faramir Jones]

Lúthien also danced before Morgoth's throne, that being a very public occasion.

And do people not remember the elves dancing and singing in The Hobbit?

As for Bêthberry calling Lúthien a 'teenage' elf, words fail me.

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by Faramir Jones

And do people not remember the elves dancing and singing in The Hobbit?

Mmmmm. On Midsummer's Eve. By the riverside. Under the stars.

[mark12_30]

LUTHIEN:
But wandering in the summer in the woods of Neldoreth he came upon Lúthien, daughter of Thingol and Melian, at a time of evening under moonrise, as she danced upon the unfading grass in the glades beside Esgalduin.

There came a time near dawn on the eve of spring, and Lúthien danced upon a green hill; and suddenly she began to sing. Keen, heart-piercing was her song as the song of the lark that rises from the gates of night and pours its voice among the dying stars, seeing the sun behind the walls of the world; and the song of Lúthien released the bonds of winter, and the frozen waters spoke, and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet had passed.

ELROND'S Elves in The Hobbit:"
"Sing all ye joyful, now sing all together?
The wind's in the free-top, the wind's in the heather;
The stars are in blossom, the moon is in flower,
And bright are the windows of Night in her tower.

Dance all ye joyful, now dance all together!
Soft is the grass, and let foot be like feather!
The river is silver, the shadows are fleeting;
Merry is May-time, and merry our meeting."

..."A little sleep does a great cure in the house of Elrond," said he; "but I will take all the cure I can get. A second good night, fair friends!" And with that he went back to bed and slept till late morning.
Weariness fell from him soon in that house, and he had many a merry jest and dance, early and late, with the elves of the valley."

[mark12_30]

...and --- does Smith count? I can't help but feel he does-- The Queen of Faerie, in Smith of Wootten Major, danced with her elves in the woods; and Smith danced with them.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Faramir Jones

As for Bêthberry calling Lúthien a 'teenage' elf, words fail me.

It's a pretty scary thought, isn't it, this elf female blossoming in the fullness of her psycho-sexual development.

'course, one has to wonder if elven women reached their sexual prime in late adolescence or, like women of the race of men, in middle age--however that designation may be determined for elves?

Could this fullness, if reached in harmony, be the middle state that Nogrod spoke of,

Then there was the music of a living being (well a "learned human" in this real world of ours) in structural harmony with the universe and its principles (musica humana for Boëthius).

[Lush]

Mmmmm. On Midsummer's Eve. By the riverside. Under the stars.

Pretty much my favourite part of The Hobbit right thar ya'll.

[Faramir Jones]

To be fair, Tolkien admitted that the singing of the Elves when Bilbo, Gandalf and the dwarves came to Rivendell was 'pretty fair nonsense I daresay you think it'. At least he didn't portray Elrond getting up to that kind of behaviour!