Tol-in-Gaurhoth XLIX - At the Source of Darkness

[Kath]

What Day are we on? Day 6? Well then, it all makes sense. When it comes to this point in the game I'm always lynched. I won't defend myself overly. I will say that I am innocent and therefore lynching me is a very, very bad plan. If you have any specific questions you want me to answer I will, but please post them before 8 as I will have to leave around half 8 (it's hop festival time here so I'll be in the pub ).

So, if I assume Nerwen is telling the truth then the wolves lie somewhere in this list:

Shasta
Durelin
phantom
Lommy

And I just do not know who is evil. You all look incredibly suspicious, with the possible exception of Durelin who for some reason has felt innocent to me all game. If I had to pick right now who is wolvish I would say it's phantom and Lommy, but that's gut feeling alone. I'll have a think about this.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Kath

What Day are we on? Day 6? Well then, it all makes sense. When it comes to this point in the game I'm always lynched. I won't defend myself overly. I will say that I am innocent and therefore lynching me is a very, very bad plan. If you have any specific questions you want me to answer I will, but please post them before 8 as I will have to leave around half 8 (it's hop festival time here so I'll be in the pub ).

Okay. Kath, if you're innocent you owe it to the village to put up a much better defence than this. If we lynch the wrong person now, it's game over.

Well?

[Kath]

I can't do much more than tell you you're lynching the wrong person. I'm not evil, I never was. Tell me why you think I'm evil, I'll tell you that I'm not. What else can I do?

I have been pressed for time and disinclined to play seriously, that will be the reason behind almost anything that looks suspicious in my behaviour. Quite simply, were I anything of any consequence I would not have played in such a blase fashion. Even if others use it as a ploy I'd have been too scared of getting lynched for it, I'm not a confident wolf.

There you go, that's my defense. Two evil people, three innocents. Nerwen, if you accept that I am innocent we have a much higher chance of getting a wolf toDay and giving ourselves a chance.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

*shrugs* There's nothing to say they're allies, and nothing to say they're not.

Yeah, that's what I mean about the interaction aspect. I'm not going to try and find two WWs today. I'm going to try and find one single WW and if we're right then I will take another look at interactions and see if anyone is implicated. The interactions themselves are too spotty to use to catch the pair before either has been discovered.

except that of course Shasta hasn't interacted with anyone except the phantom!

Yeah, which seems super weird. I can't recall ever seeing anything like it. That's why even when I feared he was the Cobbler or Assassin I still almost wanted to lynch him. I felt like he was using me or something. I mean, I think several people now have put forward the Phantom-Shasta idea, and perhaps that's precisely what he was going for? Hooking himself to an innocent rather than his fellow? I did something similar last time I was a WW, but in a different way of course.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Kath

I have been pressed for time and disinclined to play seriously, that will be the reason behind almost anything that looks suspicious in my behaviour.

Now this is difficult. On one hand, if she's innocent then she is completely correct. Such an approach would result in looking suspicious. On the other hand it's a rather convenient excuse to explain away any bit of false reasoning, bad choices, flip-flopping, or anything wrong you could ever possibly do in a village. I really don't know what to think.

Though naturally I disagree with you placing me as a WW. I think I've worked as hard as anyone to lynch the suspicious. And when I thought I'd spotted the Seer I attempted to keep her hidden and play along with her. If you are truly innocent, I would advise against suspecting me. If you are a WW, then of course you are doing precisely what you should be doing.

[Kath]

But phantom that's an impossible argument. You say you've done all you can to lynch the suspicious, therefore to find you suspicious makes you a werewolf. But to me those I've attempted to try and lynch have all seemed suspicious and thus I've only done as much as you have. The problem is that I've seen you dominate as a wolf and I know that you shy away from nothing but outright lying. To my mind I can put nothing past you and therefore it is very hard for me to accept you as innocent.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Kath

You say you've done all you can to lynch the suspicious, therefore to find you suspicious makes you a werewolf.

I didn't say that at all! The only reason I'm even bothering to talk to you is because I believe that it is possible you aren't a WW. I mean- you can't really reason with a Wolf.

My point is that as a WW I would've been trying to be wrong about my suspicions, and I could do a much better job of being wrong than what I have been as I'm sure you know.

And lastly, how likely is it that I'd kill Mith? Especially since she was shouting Cobbler to me.

[Kath]

And lastly, how likely is it that I'd kill Mith? Especially since she was shouting Cobbler to me.

And that is the one thing that makes me doubt you're a wolf. It's why I've not been able to bring myself to vote for you, ever since you mentioned it. But as I said, the problem is that I don't doubt you would be able to pull it off. Tell you what, say to me 'I am not a wolf, I am innocent' and we'll see.

[Durelin]

What do you think of Shasta, Kath?

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Kath

Tell you what, say to me 'I am not a wolf, I am innocent' and we'll see.

Ha ha ha!

Okay, but I doubt that most of the others understand why you're making me do this. It's a long story, people.

Okay- I am not a wolf, I am innocent.

[Kath]

Shasta reminds me of myself when I play normally. Focusing on one person, really going after them. If he's convinced it's very hard to make yourself change your mind, and he hasn't had the advantage of finding out phantom's role through getting him lynched and thus being able to move on. So I think he's a very focused and frustrated innocent. That's not to say though that he's not a very brave wolf! I just don't think so.

[Kath]

Ha! Cross-posted with phantom. You know what ... alright. Alright ok, phantom I'll accept it. If you've played me then at least it's been with aplomb.

Problem is without you I've only got one suspect as I don't think Shasta is a wolf and Durelin feels innocent. But hey, at least it makes voting easy.

[the phantom]

Okay, Kath, you keep saying that Shasta is a frustrated Ordo, and even reminds you of you, but still- going several days and 40+ posts without giving an opinion about any of you? You've never done that to my knowledge. Doesn't that seem a bit extreme? It smacks of a WW imitating a Cobbler, or someone trying not to make too many enemies. Or someone trying to make people think "No way would a WW be that crazy."

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Ha ha ha!

Okay, but I doubt that most of the others understand why you're making me do this. It's a long story, people.

We've got a couple of hours. What are you two up to?

EDIT: X'd with tp.

[Kath]

I suppose it looks bad for him but maybe he's just secure in his convictions. Even if he is absolutely 100% wrong it doesn't mean that he's evil and to my mind consistency isn't a bad thing.

[Kath]

Nerwen, don't worry too much, it's just that phantom once said he'd never actually lie when a wolf so I thought I'd test that out.

[Nerwen]

Okay, but how can anyone be that secure?

EDIT: X'd with Kath.

[Durelin]

Can I keep questioning you, Kath?

Because I'd really like to know why Lommy? She still just 'comes across wrong'?

[Kath]

I'm not. I'm really, really not. But I had that on good authority so I'm just going to have to hope.

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by Kath

consistency isn't a bad thing.

Well of course you'd say that.

If you can be as consistent as Shasta and maybe even as you have, that your main suspect(s) (phantom, and Lommy and phantom) have never managed to get lynched, yes...you do end up in a pretty nice spot.

[Kath]

Oh sorry Nerwen, misunderstood that. How can anyone be that secure? Have you never played with, say, Farael? Some people can be completely convinced and remain that way until they find out whether they're right.

Durelin, go ahead. Why Lommy? Well, yes it's a feeling, but also where is she? This incredibly important Day and she's barely around? A quiet Lommy is a bad sign to me.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Okay, but how can anyone be that secure?

Yeah, that's what I worry about. The fact is it looks like an excellent WW ploy were he and I WWs. If he gets me lynched then Shasta must be innocent right? And if he gets lynched then I must be innocent, right?

But that's not what's going on, I can tell you. I would never allow something so reckless. I am in favor of bold, but not obvious and reckless.

So I sort of feel like I'm being set up. Yeah, I guess I am kind of taking this personally.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

We've got a couple of hours. What are you two up to?

Heh heh... Well, in games past it has come up that I take immense pride in being one of the only players that lies more as an innocent than as a WW. I think it's due to my sense of sportsmanship. I feel that the WWs, as the attackers, should be somewhat sporting. Where as the innocents being attacked should be allowed to do anything they please to catch the beasts.

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by Kath

This incredibly important Day and she's barely around? A quiet Lommy is a bad sign to me.

Actually I thought as a wolf she posted rather a lot, but I don't know. This also makes me think of Shasta...as in, where is he? Hmm.

[the phantom]

This also makes me think of Shasta...as in, where is he? Hmm.

Perhaps he assumes that if he arrives late that two people will have already started going at each other and thus leave him in the clear? I've seen that many times.

[the phantom]

As far as Lommy goes, all I know is that in the last game (DWW) most of my team mates and some villagers kept saying "guilty guilty guilty" but I disregarded them and turned out being right about her. She feels exactly the same to me in this village, though quieter.

[Thinlómien]

As for where I am, it's here. I just arrived and read the thread. And as for Kath's question* - I think I did say we're having guests so I might have problems getting online... we were in an amusement park for the whole day and I just arrived. I will post something more substantial soon.

*should I be worried that she makes a point of my absence when I've actually explained it already? Is she just trying to create a "mist of suspicion" around me, or maybe she hasn't read my post properly because she has already decided to suspect me, whatever the case? Makes me wonder...

[Kath]

Can make any case you like Lommy, but I just didn't see that. Was it in the admin thread?

[Durelin]

Kath or Shasta? I really don't want to hang around any longer.

I may be a fool for trusting anyone and focusing on those two, but I really don't care right now.

[Nerwen]

No. Post #596.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

First off, some relatives came here over the weekend so I can't participate as much as I would like to be.

EDIT: X'd with Durelin. I was replying to Kath.

[Kath]

Ah ok, no I didn't see that Lommy. But did you really have to be quite so defensive about it?

Right I'm going to be leaving in the next 5-10 minutes. Durelin has given her voting options, clearly I don't want to vote for her first option, and I would rather not vote for the latter. But it is really only me and Shasta that are up for the noose?

[Durelin]

Well, you haven't managed to convince me to vote for anyone else, Kath, sorry.

[the phantom]

Well, Dur, I don't know what to tell you. Kath has played nicely today, in the sense of projecting innocence and appealing to my personality, so I certainly favor Shasta over her at this point. I'd rather be winked at and won over than straight up kept alive merely to be used as a giant ploy.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Here's another conspiracy theory: Kath and the phantom. See how she makes unconvincing attacks on him, then votes other people?

Now, this is very interesting, especially if we take into account the most recent turn: Kath asking tp if he's innocent and taking his word for it. I mean, huh? Wouldn't that be the perfect excuse for her not to vote her fellow and stick to her rather forced and prolonged suspicion of me? (Actually, she could have asked that from an innocent tp too just to make it easier for herself - if her fellow is someone who's not currently under pressure that much, like Durelin. But then again, Kath herself is under quite a lot of pressure, so I'm not sure if this theory makes sense...)

Originally Posted by Kath

Nerwen, if you accept that I am innocent we have a much higher chance of getting a wolf toDay and giving ourselves a chance.

Sounds rather fishy...

And I for one am not going to take tp's word for it and assume he's innocent. That would be really silly. Even if he has said he will avoid outright lying, I think he would not really shy away from it in a situation like that.

So actually currently I'm thinking our wolves are Kath and tp. Why not Shasta? Well, he hasn't been around to make me suspicious of himself... I wonder if that's what he's trying to achieve...

PS.

Originally Posted by Durelin

Actually I thought as a wolf she posted rather a lot, but I don't know.

Nope. As a wolf I tend to post a little less because I have less to say and I'm constantly afraid I will make a slip. (But that has nothing to do with my relative quietness in this game, I've just been more busy than usual - you know, I even wondered if I should join at all.)


edit: xed with the last six posts

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Kath

But it is really only me and Shasta that are up for the noose?

Depends on which way others go. I'm definitely not prepared to bet my life on the two of you. If left to me I'd lynch him, see if we're right, and start from scratch tomorrow. As I said earlier, I'm not trying to catch two today. Just one.

[Durelin]

The problem is you could always be behind this 'giant ploy' centered around you, but that is more ridiculous.

I think it's this game that has so far made me extremely grumpy today (and thus has pretty much ruined my day), so I'd really like to get this over with.

I almost want to vote Shasta just because he's not here.

Next post will be my vote...

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by phantom

I'm definitely not prepared to bet my life on the two of you

I'm not betting much on them as a pair. The problem is I've basically ruled out you and Lommy (which may well be the mistake of a lifetime), so they're the only ones left!

Yeah, okay, so I lied...next post...

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Kath

Ah ok, no I didn't see that Lommy. But did you really have to be quite so defensive about it?

Yeah, I thought you probably didn't. I just wondered why... And if I was being defensive, well, that was not intentional.

Originally Posted by Kath

But it is really only me and Shasta that are up for the noose?

Well, I could vote for tp too. I'd feel most secure about voting you, though.


edit: xed with Durelin I and Durelin II
edit2 - marked quotes

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Lommy

Why not Shasta? Well, he hasn't been around to make me suspicious of himself... I wonder if that's what he's trying to achieve...

Yes, and that's why I feel that I don't want him to get away with it. Give Kath her credit, Lommy. She showed up and talked.

Or are you going to allow Shasta to run in here at the end and save himself? That's possibly exactly what he's waiting for. Wait till crunch time and run in and apologize and make a plea.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Yes, and that's why I feel that I don't want him to get away with it. Give Kath her credit, Lommy. She showed up and talked.

Or are you going to allow Shasta to run in here at the end and save himself? That's possibly exactly what he's waiting for. Wait till crunch time and run in and apologize and make a plea.

Well, I am giving Kath credit for being around, certainly. But she still seems suspicious... *grumblegrumble* And in case I didn't phrase it clear enough, voting Shasta is an option of me, even though I am currently slightly more suspicious of Kath and you. If Shasta is not going to be around to make me get an impression of him, maybe I just have to go and read his old posts to get some kind of impression...

[the phantom]

Okay, here's what I'm thinking. I'm no longer feeling like I'm being tricked into voting Shasta. I mean- who's pushing me towards it? I feel like I'm the one driving the bus, which makes me feel slightly better.

When Durelin was under the gun with Nog she came off innocent to me. Kath has seemed innocent today. Lommy hasn't pinged my radar much.

Yes, yes, I know... One of them has to be a WW! But two of them? It's possible, but I'd like to think that my instincts are slightly better than that.