Aragorn and Elrond - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 09-07-2003, 01:56 PM

I know the film-makers had to cut out a lot of the story in order to fit in the really important bits, but this is one part of the books which I feel is a shame not to have been included.In the films, Elrond is nothing more than Arwen's father, opposed to the idea of his daughter marrying Aragorn. However, Elrond's relationship with Aragorn was so much more delicate in the book.After all, Elrond was a father figure to Aragorn and loved him greatly. The films have this extremely one-dimensional relationship between the two, and do not explain in any way their past history.I guess this is why they left it out. It would be very difficult to get this all in, especially as it is not central to the story. It is still something, however, which I feel is sad, and is most definitely unfair to the character of Elrond in the films.Any thoughts?

Lord of Angmar · 09-07-2003, 02:55 PM

I agree. I disliked the parts in the Two Towers in which Elrond told Arwen that there was no hope left for Aragorn, the race of Men or Middle Earth. It contrasted sharply not only with Elrond's father-son relationship with Aragorn in the books but also with everything that happens in the Fellowship of the Ring movie between the Council of Elrond and the departure of the Fellowship from Rivendell.[ September 07, 2003: Message edited by: Lord of Angmar ]

Silmiel of Imladris · 09-08-2003, 05:42 PM

Elrond was only telling it like it is.

Evisse the Blue · 09-08-2003, 06:26 PM

Indeed - the relationship between Elrond and Aragorn was very delicate - there was much love but also sorrow between them. Elrond is never so harsh in the book as he is in the movie, nor as selfish. Also, I thought it horrible - the emotional blackmail he does to Arwen - "Do I not also have your love?"

Finwe · 09-09-2003, 07:47 PM

We also have to understand, that he KNOWS what it was like to lose his family. Did Arwen lose her twin brother to mortality and eventual death? Did Arwen have to suffer through a kidnapping at an early age? Did Arwen have to witness her mother jumping off a balcony to save a jewel? No, she didn't! Look what Elrond went through compared to Arwen. She thinks that by being in love, everything is going to turn out fine and dandy for her. But Elrond knows that it won't. I'm not using that as an excuse for Elrond to treat Aragorn coldly, because even I believe that he was a bit too cold in the movie. But he was merely playing the part of a father who knows that his child will be hurt, not only his child, but his only daughter. Would any responsible parent let their child be hurt? Granted, Elrond should let Arwen take a few risks here and there, because that is what life is about, but he is still her father.Coming from a very structured nuclear family (I'm Indian), I can understand things from both Elrond's perspective and Arwen's (or Aragorn's) perspective, because things like that have happened to me. I have been forced to give up someone who I loved a lot because my parents didn't want me to date. And I really mean it when I say that I was in love with that person. I'll bet that most of you do not know how that feels, to not be able to even love someone without your parents' consent. It is heartbreaking, or rather, it was at the time. But now I look back, and I realize why my parents did that. Yes, it may seem harsh, cold, and cruel, but at the time, I was blinded by love. I thought that guy was THE guy for me, and I was mistaken. If I had been allowed to date that guy (as I reminisce), I would have probably ended up as a druggie, alcoholic, or far worse, a teenage mother. Now I know that Aragorn had the best of intentions, but love is overpoweringly blinding. All Elrond wanted to do was protect his daughter, because he knew that she would eventually have to face the death of her soulmate, and that is something that is not easily taken. Elrond lost his twin, seemingly his other self, to that same fate, and after going through that pain, as a responsible, loving, caring father, he would not want his children to go through that same fate.

Maéglin · 09-13-2003, 04:52 AM

Hmmm but wasn't Elrond born mortal and was later given the choice to be of the Eldar or the Edain? Surely they didn't have to give Elrond so much antagonism towards the Dunadan, after all, he did raise him in Rivendell since he was but a wee babe.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 09-13-2003, 03:06 PM

Elrond's mortal ancestry is quickly pushed to the side in the film to avoid confusing non-book viewers. I don't like it but I can see why it was done.

09-07-2003, 01:56 PM	#1
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Aragorn and Elrond I know the film-makers had to cut out a lot of the story in order to fit in the really important bits, but this is one part of the books which I feel is a shame not to have been included.<P>In the films, Elrond is nothing more than Arwen's father, opposed to the idea of his daughter marrying Aragorn. However, Elrond's relationship with Aragorn was so much more delicate in the book.<P>After all, Elrond was a father figure to Aragorn and loved him greatly. The films have this extremely one-dimensional relationship between the two, and do not explain in any way their past history.<P>I guess this is why they left it out. It would be very difficult to get this all in, especially as it is not central to the story. It is still something, however, which I feel is sad, and is most definitely unfair to the character of Elrond in the films.<P>Any thoughts? __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

09-07-2003, 02:55 PM	#2
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	I agree. I disliked the parts in the Two Towers in which Elrond told Arwen that there was no hope left for Aragorn, the race of Men or Middle Earth. It contrasted sharply not only with Elrond's father-son relationship with Aragorn in the books but also with everything that happens in the Fellowship of the Ring movie between the Council of Elrond and the departure of the Fellowship from Rivendell.<p>[ September 07, 2003: Message edited by: Lord of Angmar ] __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.

09-08-2003, 05:42 PM	#3
Silmiel of Imladris Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Looking into a crystal ball- still see nothing Posts: 395	Elrond was only telling it like it is. __________________ Legolas 20 ales later: I feel something, a slight tingling in my fingers. I think it's affecting me. Figwit on his name: Are you suggesting that I have the wit of a fig?

09-08-2003, 06:26 PM	#4
Evisse the Blue Brightness of a Blade Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: wherever I may roam Posts: 2,685	Indeed - the relationship between Elrond and Aragorn was very delicate - there was much love but also sorrow between them. Elrond is never so harsh in the book as he is in the movie, nor as selfish. Also, I thought it horrible - the emotional blackmail he does to Arwen - "Do I not also have your love?" __________________ And no one was ill, and everyone was pleased, except those who had to mow the grass.

09-09-2003, 07:47 PM	#5
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	We also have to understand, that he KNOWS what it was like to lose his family. Did Arwen lose her twin brother to mortality and eventual death? Did Arwen have to suffer through a kidnapping at an early age? Did Arwen have to witness her mother jumping off a balcony to save a jewel? No, she didn't! Look what Elrond went through compared to Arwen. She thinks that by being in love, everything is going to turn out fine and dandy for her. But Elrond knows that it won't. <P>I'm not using that as an excuse for Elrond to treat Aragorn coldly, because even I believe that he was a bit too cold in the movie. But he was merely playing the part of a father who knows that his child will be hurt, not only his child, but his only daughter. Would any responsible parent let their child be hurt? Granted, Elrond should let Arwen take a few risks here and there, because that is what life is about, but he is still her father.<P>Coming from a very structured nuclear family (I'm Indian), I can understand things from both Elrond's perspective and Arwen's (or Aragorn's) perspective, because things like that have happened to me. I have been forced to give up someone who I loved a lot because my parents didn't want me to date. And I really mean it when I say that I was in love with that person. I'll bet that most of you do not know how that feels, to not be able to even love someone without your parents' consent. It is heartbreaking, or rather, it was at the time. But now I look back, and I realize why my parents did that. Yes, it may seem harsh, cold, and cruel, but at the time, I was blinded by love. I thought that guy was THE guy for me, and I was mistaken. If I had been allowed to date that guy (as I reminisce), I would have probably ended up as a druggie, alcoholic, or far worse, a teenage mother. Now I know that Aragorn had the best of intentions, but love is overpoweringly blinding. <P>All Elrond wanted to do was protect his daughter, because he knew that she would eventually have to face the death of her soulmate, and that is something that is not easily taken. Elrond lost his twin, seemingly his other self, to that same fate, and after going through that pain, as a responsible, loving, caring father, he would not want his children to go through that same fate. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

09-13-2003, 04:52 AM	#6
Maéglin Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 99	Hmmm but wasn't Elrond born mortal and was later given the choice to be of the Eldar or the Edain? Surely they didn't have to give Elrond so much antagonism towards the Dunadan, after all, he did raise him in Rivendell since he was but a wee babe.

09-13-2003, 03:06 PM	#7
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Elrond's mortal ancestry is quickly pushed to the side in the film to avoid confusing non-book viewers. I don't like it but I can see why it was done. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond