The Miracle That Is The Fellowship of The Ring - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

08-24-2003, 08:20 PM

I was recently rereading "The Fellowship of the Ring" and I am now convinced Peter Jackson deserves enormous kudos for effectively translating Tokien's work into a film.Critics will point out missed characters or plot points, but lets remember how poorly 'The Fellowship' is setup for translation into film. This is no knock on Tolkien. I love his book, but its defies almost all modern conventions with regards to story development.For most film-makers, Lothorien would have been dropped completely. Its in the wrong place for a film and could derail the pacing & plot of the story.Heck, even the Council of Elrond, the key beginning to the Fellowship, occurs very late in Tolkien's book. Most filmakers might have dropped the opening completely and have the story begin there.Jackson's achievement is impressive. While I wish he spent a few more moments on the character interaction(Gimli is particulary shafted in the theatrical release), at the expense of some of the action sequence (the entrance to Moira, while impressive, isn't really that critical), the overall effort and attention to detail is amazing.

Lord of Angmar · 08-24-2003, 09:00 PM

I agree whole-heartedly, Jackinabox. Professor Tolkien was a great storyteller in my opinion, but his books simply were not designed to cater to action fans, and a good movie adaptation seemed nearly out of the question (not only because of the strange storytelling formula but because of the logistics of telling such a tale on screen). Peter Jackson should be highly praised for his work. I defy anyone to say they could interpret Professor Tolkien's works better in 10 hours on screen for a comparable amount of money.

The Only Real Estel · 08-25-2003, 11:15 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I was recently rereading "The Fellowship of the Ring" and I am now convinced Peter Jackson deserves enormous kudos for effectively translating Tokien's work into a film.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This I agree with, he deserves a load of kudos for his work on FotR, & also kudos (albiet less in my opinon) for his work on TTT. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Heck, even the Council of Elrond, the key beginning to the Fellowship, occurs very late in Tolkien's book. Most filmakers might have dropped the opening completely and have the story begin there.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This I don't agree with. I don't believe it's likely at all that anyone would leave out all of the beginning leading up to the Council.

Horse-Maiden of the Shire · 08-25-2003, 11:24 AM

We can rant and rave about how Bombadil wasn't in the book, and about how Boromir wasn't supposed to die in FotR, and how Aragorn was supposed to get his gem, but overall PJ did a very good job. Now that I think about it, these books would be monsters to make into movies. Most filmmakers would take one look at the Balrog and at the problems surrounding the heights of the Hobbits and say, "Impossible!" But PJ did it. Same thing with TT (although it was mangled beyond belief for me). These films have most likely caused many massive headaches and sleepless nights for the cast and crew and they do deserve the praise that they're getting.

The Only Real Estel · 08-25-2003, 11:29 AM

Plus PJ didn't really make any major changes in Fotr (Bombadil was not quite major), so I liked it especially well.

Lord of Angmar · 08-25-2003, 12:07 PM

I personally am very glad that Tom Bombadil was left out of the movie. He is one of my favorite characters that I have ever read in literature, and I would hate to picture him any other way than I do already. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I don't believe it's likely at all that anyone would leave out all of the beginning leading up to the Council. (The Only Real Estel) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't think Jackinabox was implying that the entire first segment should be left out. I think he was merely implying that the exposition in the Shire may have been overlong. It took up half of the first book and achieved a comparably less meaningful purpose than the second half of the book.

The Only Real Estel · 08-25-2003, 01:29 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Heck, even the Council of Elrond, the key beginning to the Fellowship, occurs very late in Tolkien's book. Heck, even the Council of Elrond, the key beginning to the Fellowship, occurs very late in Tolkien's book. Most filmakers might have dropped the opening completely and have the story begin there.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think by, 'Most filmakers might have dropped the opening completely and have the story begin there.' He meant that they would just start it at the Council of Elrond. If not I must sound really stupid, but that's sure what it sounds like. I'm only glad that he didn't put Tom Bombadil in because PJ wouldn't have had enough time to 'explain' him. He would've come out as a singing Jar-Jar-Binks, as I've said before.

08-25-2003, 03:42 PM

I wasn't trying to suggest starting at the Council, but I could see some film-makers who might try that approach.After all, a typical film is somewhere between 90 minutes and 2 hours. Imagine trying to put "The Fellowship" into a script with those restrictions. Jackson, luckily, was able to get New Line to allow him to go much longer.I actually like the extended 'Hobbit' opening in the Special Edition. The extra character moments were far more fun and interesting to watch, than some of action sequences.

The Only Real Estel · 08-25-2003, 03:47 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I wasn't trying to suggest starting at the Council, but I could see some film-makers who might try that approach.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's what I thought you meant. I kind've doubt that any director would totally drop the beginning, although I could definatly see them shortening it considerably. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I actually like the extended 'Hobbit' opening in the Special Edition. The extra character moments were far more fun and interesting to watch, than some of action sequences.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I agree to some extent. I did like the extended Hobbit opening, & it certainly gave those who don't know who or what hobbits are more backround on them. I can stand to watch it much more than some of the badly done action scenes (ie: moving before being hit, like Boromir & one of the last Uruk-Hais he killed, & Lurtz being tackled by Aragorn). Other than the above mention scenes though, I'd have to go for the action scenes just because.

08-24-2003, 08:20 PM	#1
jackinabox2 Guest Posts: n/a	The Miracle That Is The Fellowship of The Ring I was recently rereading "The Fellowship of the Ring" and I am now convinced Peter Jackson deserves enormous kudos for effectively translating Tokien's work into a film.<P>Critics will point out missed characters or plot points, but lets remember how poorly 'The Fellowship' is setup for translation into film. This is no knock on Tolkien. I love his book, but its defies almost all modern conventions with regards to story development.<P>For most film-makers, Lothorien would have been dropped completely. Its in the wrong place for a film and could derail the pacing & plot of the story.<P>Heck, even the Council of Elrond, the key beginning to the Fellowship, occurs very late in Tolkien's book. Most filmakers might have dropped the opening completely and have the story begin there.<P>Jackson's achievement is impressive. While I wish he spent a few more moments on the character interaction(Gimli is particulary shafted in the theatrical release), at the expense of some of the action sequence (the entrance to Moira, while impressive, isn't really that critical), the overall effort and attention to detail is amazing.

08-24-2003, 09:00 PM	#2
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	I agree whole-heartedly, Jackinabox. Professor Tolkien was a great storyteller in my opinion, but his books simply were not designed to cater to action fans, and a good movie adaptation seemed nearly out of the question (not only because of the strange storytelling formula but because of the logistics of telling such a tale on screen). Peter Jackson should be highly praised for his work. I defy anyone to say they could interpret Professor Tolkien's works better in 10 hours on screen for a comparable amount of money. __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.

08-25-2003, 11:15 AM	#3
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I was recently rereading "The Fellowship of the Ring" and I am now convinced Peter Jackson deserves enormous kudos for effectively translating Tokien's work into a film.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This I agree with, he deserves a load of kudos for his work on FotR, & also kudos (albiet less in my opinon) for his work on TTT.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Heck, even the Council of Elrond, the key beginning to the Fellowship, occurs very late in Tolkien's book. Most filmakers might have dropped the opening completely and have the story begin there.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This I don't agree with. I don't believe it's likely at all that anyone would leave out all of the beginning leading up to the Council.

08-25-2003, 11:24 AM	#4
Horse-Maiden of the Shire Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Chillaxin' with Glorfindel-441 miles on the RtR Posts: 1,197	We can rant and rave about how Bombadil wasn't in the book, and about how Boromir wasn't supposed to die in FotR, and how Aragorn was supposed to get his gem, but overall PJ did a very good job. Now that I think about it, these books would be monsters to make into movies. Most filmmakers would take one look at the Balrog and at the problems surrounding the heights of the Hobbits and say, "Impossible!" But PJ did it. Same thing with TT (although it was mangled beyond belief for me). These films have most likely caused many massive headaches and sleepless nights for the cast and crew and they do deserve the praise that they're getting. __________________ "There's a big...machine in the sky...some kind of electric snake...coming straight at us." "Shoot it," said my attorney. "Not yet...I want to study its habits."

08-25-2003, 12:07 PM	#6
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	I personally am <I>very</I> glad that Tom Bombadil was left out of the movie. He is one of my favorite characters that I have ever read in literature, and I would hate to picture him any other way than I do already.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I don't believe it's likely at all that anyone would leave out all of the beginning leading up to the Council. (The Only Real Estel) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't think Jackinabox was implying that the entire first segment should be left out. I think he was merely implying that the exposition in the Shire may have been overlong. It took up half of the first book and achieved a comparably less meaningful purpose than the second half of the book. __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.

08-25-2003, 11:29 AM	#5
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	Plus PJ didn't really make any major changes in Fotr (Bombadil was not quite major), so I liked it especially well.

08-25-2003, 01:29 PM	#7
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Heck, even the Council of Elrond, the key beginning to the Fellowship, occurs very late in Tolkien's book. Heck, even the Council of Elrond, the key beginning to the Fellowship, occurs very late in Tolkien's book. Most filmakers might have dropped the opening completely and have the story begin there.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think by, 'Most filmakers might have dropped the opening completely and have the story begin there.' He meant that they would just start it at the Council of Elrond. If not I must sound really stupid, but that's sure what it sounds like.<BR> I'm only glad that he didn't put Tom Bombadil in because PJ wouldn't have had enough time to 'explain' him. He would've come out as a singing Jar-Jar-Binks, as I've said before.

08-25-2003, 03:42 PM	#8
jackinabox2 Guest Posts: n/a	I wasn't trying to suggest starting at the Council, but I could see some film-makers who might try that approach.<P>After all, a typical film is somewhere between 90 minutes and 2 hours. Imagine trying to put "The Fellowship" into a script with those restrictions. Jackson, luckily, was able to get New Line to allow him to go much longer.<P>I actually like the extended 'Hobbit' opening in the Special Edition. The extra character moments were far more fun and interesting to watch, than some of action sequences.

08-25-2003, 03:47 PM	#9
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I wasn't trying to suggest starting at the Council, but I could see some film-makers who might try that approach.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's what I thought you meant. I kind've doubt that any director would totally drop the beginning, although I could definatly see them shortening it considerably.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I actually like the extended 'Hobbit' opening in the Special Edition. The extra character moments were far more fun and interesting to watch, than some of action sequences.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I agree to some extent. I did like the extended Hobbit opening, & it certainly gave those who don't know who or what hobbits are more backround on them. I can stand to watch it much more than some of the badly done action scenes (ie: moving before being hit, like Boromir & one of the last Uruk-Hais he killed, & Lurtz being tackled by Aragorn). Other than the above mention scenes though, I'd have to go for the action scenes just because.