Elvish in the Movies - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Linteamarthwen · 07-31-2003, 11:55 AM

Did PJ make up words for the vocab. that tolkien never created for elvish words? I tried to translate some things but nothing adds up. Can anyone help me!!(you can private message me or just add on to thread) Thank you

GaladrieloftheOlden · 07-31-2003, 01:02 PM

This might have been discussed before, I'm sure it has, actually... anyway, I think what happened was that the movie elvish was a mix of Quenya and Sindarin. Isn't that what Grey Elvish is? Sorry, I'm slightly clueless on this topic...No swan song today, -Menelien

Sapphire_Flame · 07-31-2003, 01:41 PM

It's Sindarin. In some instances Quenyan is used (example: Saruman's weather spell), but most of the conversations are in Sindarin.All the language dialog can be found at <A HREF="http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/language.htm" TARGET=_blank>The Fellowship of the Word-Smiths</A> under "Movies".Abedithon le,~*~Aranel~*~

The Only Real Estel · 07-31-2003, 02:05 PM

I'm also kinda clueless on the Elvish language, but I thought it was rather unrealistic how sometimes the characters would be speaking in Elvish, & then all of a sudden they'd switch back to the Common Tounge. Mybe that's just me though, again.

08-02-2003, 05:36 AM

People who are multilingual often shift between languages like that. My great grandmother would speak in English, but revert to her native Welsh when she got angry. When two people who speak each other's languages meet, the result is usually a mixture of the two.

Arwen Eruantale · 08-02-2003, 09:09 PM

Oh yes. I belong to a HUGE hispanic family, so believe me, it's true. Welcome to the Downs, Neneithiel! "Oh happy to be dead!"

Silmiel of Imladris · 08-03-2003, 09:57 PM

Well whatever the movie Elvish was it isn't good enough for some. I sent in a fanfic containing some Elvish from the script and it was thrown out because it wasn't Tolkien Elvish.

Lush · 08-04-2003, 08:16 PM

The Elvish in the films was definitely not perfect. I recall burrahobbit saying that Arwen messed up her lines to Frodo in FotR, and I trust in burrahobbit, so...I guess they were pretty sure that nobody would spend a whole lot of time trying to figure out how exactly they worked it. Hm. I guess they were wrong. I hardly know anything about Tolkien's Elvish (i.e., I've never tried learning how to speak it), but for a person well-learned in it, I suppose the mistakes would be annoying.[ August 04, 2003: Message edited by: Lush ]

Scott · 08-05-2003, 01:12 AM

Jackson had hired special linguistic experts for the films, but not even they could do a perfect job, especially since Tolkiens languages will never be fully unveiled or understood and many ideas on composition and other points may differ even between the most knowledgeable experts. The specialists in the film were there more or less to just get the cast to be able to pronounce the sounds of the elish tongues decently. All in all, I think they did a remarkable job. I mean, you try and pick someone out and teach them a language whose creator never even finished.~Scott

The Only Real Estel · 08-05-2003, 05:12 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>People who are multilingual often shift between languages like that. My great grandmother would speak in English, but revert to her native Welsh when she got angry. When two people who speak each other's languages meet, the result is usually a mixture of the two.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, but still. When people get angry & start speaking in another language, it's usually 'cause they don't want you to know what they're saying. I just think it's rather unrealistic, if people are just talking, they don't just shift for no reason, usually. Once again, I suppose I could be wrong.

Luthien_ Tinuviel · 08-05-2003, 07:35 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I just think it's rather unrealistic, if people are just talking, they don't just shift for no reason, usually. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, then again..... No, seriously. I have done that (English to Czech). Usually when you can't think of the word for something in one language, so you say it in the other. About not wanting people to know what you're saying... that is actually applicable to some of the conversations in Elvish that are in the movies. If the hobbits are freaking out, would you really want them to hear you discussing who's going to take Frodo to Rivendell?

07-31-2003, 11:55 AM	#1
Linteamarthwen Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Middle-Earth Posts: 25	Elvish in the Movies Did PJ make up words for the vocab. that tolkien never created for elvish words? I tried to translate some things but nothing adds up. Can anyone help me!!(you can private message me or just add on to thread) Thank you

07-31-2003, 01:02 PM	#2
GaladrieloftheOlden Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Massachusetts - digging up a bottomless hole, searching for something that's not there... Posts: 1,514	This might have been discussed before, I'm sure it has, actually... anyway, I think what happened was that the movie elvish was a mix of Quenya and Sindarin. Isn't that what Grey Elvish is? Sorry, I'm slightly clueless on this topic...<P>No swan song today,<BR>-Menelien __________________ "Glue... very powerful stuff."

07-31-2003, 01:41 PM	#3
Sapphire_Flame Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The World That Never Was Posts: 1,232	It's Sindarin. In some instances Quenyan is used (example: Saruman's weather spell), but most of the conversations are in Sindarin.<P>All the language dialog can be found at <A HREF="http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/language.htm" TARGET=_blank>The Fellowship of the Word-Smiths</A> under "Movies".<P>Abedithon le,<P>~~Aranel~~ __________________ The Hitchhiking Ghost

08-02-2003, 09:09 PM	#6
Arwen Eruantale Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: My Field of Paper Flowers Posts: 282	Oh yes. I belong to a HUGE hispanic family, so believe me, it's true. <P>Welcome to the Downs, Neneithiel! "Oh happy to be dead!" __________________ And he became somewhat grim to look upon, unless he chanced to smile... Will you pay attention?

08-03-2003, 09:57 PM	#7
Silmiel of Imladris Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Looking into a crystal ball- still see nothing Posts: 395	Well whatever the movie Elvish was it isn't good enough for some. I sent in a fanfic containing some Elvish from the script and it was thrown out because it wasn't Tolkien Elvish. __________________ Legolas 20 ales later: I feel something, a slight tingling in my fingers. I think it's affecting me. Figwit on his name: Are you suggesting that I have the wit of a fig?

07-31-2003, 02:05 PM	#4
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	I'm also kinda clueless on the Elvish language, but I thought it was rather unrealistic how sometimes the characters would be speaking in Elvish, & then all of a sudden they'd switch back to the Common Tounge. Mybe that's just me though, again.

08-02-2003, 05:36 AM	#5
Neneithel Guest Posts: n/a	People who are multilingual often shift between languages like that. My great grandmother would speak in English, but revert to her native Welsh when she got angry. When two people who speak each other's languages meet, the result is usually a mixture of the two.

08-04-2003, 08:16 PM	#8
Lush Fair and Cold Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the big onion Posts: 1,770	The Elvish in the films was definitely not perfect. I recall burrahobbit saying that Arwen messed up her lines to Frodo in FotR, and I trust in burrahobbit, so...<P>I guess they were pretty sure that nobody would spend a whole lot of time trying to figure out how exactly they worked it. Hm. I guess they were wrong. <P>I hardly know anything about Tolkien's Elvish (i.e., I've never tried learning how to speak it), but for a person well-learned in it, I suppose the mistakes would be annoying.<p>[ August 04, 2003: Message edited by: Lush ] __________________ ~The beginning is the word and the end is silence. And in between are all the stories. This is one of mine~

08-05-2003, 01:12 AM	#9
Scott Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ohio/Grey Havens Posts: 183	Jackson had hired special linguistic experts for the films, but not even they could do a perfect job, especially since Tolkiens languages will never be fully unveiled or understood and many ideas on composition and other points may differ even between the most knowledgeable experts.<BR>The specialists in the film were there more or less to just get the cast to be able to pronounce the sounds of the elish tongues decently. All in all, I think they did a remarkable job. I mean, you try and pick someone out and teach them a language whose creator never even finished.<P>~Scott __________________ Those who the Gods would destroy, They first make mad. ~Those Crazy Greeks

08-05-2003, 05:12 PM	#10
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>People who are multilingual often shift between languages like that. My great grandmother would speak in English, but revert to her native Welsh when she got angry. When two people who speak each other's languages meet, the result is usually a mixture of the two.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, but still. When people get angry & start speaking in another language, it's usually 'cause they don't want you to know what they're saying. I just think it's rather unrealistic, if people are just talking, they don't just shift for no reason, usually. Once again, I suppose I could be wrong.

08-05-2003, 07:35 PM	#11
Luthien_ Tinuviel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2002 Location: A very lovely tree-hut in the Chunnel. Posts: 804	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I just think it's rather unrealistic, if people are just talking, they don't just shift for no reason, usually. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, then again..... No, seriously. I have done that (English to Czech). Usually when you can't think of the word for something in one language, so you say it in the other. About not wanting people to know what you're saying... that is actually applicable to some of the conversations in Elvish that are in the movies. If the hobbits are freaking out, would you really <I>want</I> them to hear you discussing who's going to take Frodo to Rivendell? __________________ I am a nineteen-year-old nomad photographer who owns a lemonade stand. You know what? I love Mip.