"Friends of old, you have been gathered hereto answer the threat of Mordor" - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

LePetitChoux · 06-06-2003, 10:22 AM

I have a question concerning this, and it may be rather trivial as I have been banned (can you believe it?) from reading LotR until I read lots of other books, which I am, so therefore if my memory is slighly rusty, please forgive me. In the film, as the quote in the title of this thread suggests, Elrond is making out that the Council was summoned to Rivendell. However, I got the distinct impression from the book that Imladris was a secret valley that only elves knew how to find it(so, logically following this through, they'd really invite a load of men and dwarves to it). Also, I can almost remember that either Boromir or Gimli or both had gotten into it by accident (if this isn't accurate, please forgive me). Also, I'm sure it would have taken a lot of planning and time to summon the councilees (is that a word?), seeing as the only postage system in Middle-Earth was horseback (or maybe Fell Beasts), and news of the ring had come with Gandalf, only a few days before Frodo. Before this, as far as I can remember, Sauron's plans hadn't really been taken notice of. So how could Elrond invite everyone? I don't mean to be picky if this is another of those needless lines that just create complications among die-hard Tolkienites, but I'm wondering whether this was in the book too and I missed it.

**The Saucepan Man** · 06-06-2003, 10:40 AM

Yes, LPC, you are right. They all arrived in Rivendell in pursuance of their own missions. Boromir was trying to understand the meaning of his (and Faramir's) dream about "Isildur's Bane". Legolas was bringing news of Gollum's escape, while Gloin and Gimli were (I think) bringing news of Sauron's attempt to enlist the Dwarves of the Iron Hills. Of course, these missions are not mentioned in the film (except, I think, Boromir's dream), and I am not sure if any real explanation is given as to why they were all there.I agree that it does not make sense for Elrond to have gathered them all together in Rivendell at such short notice. But, couldn't that line just be referring to Elrond gathering them together in the Council chamber, rather than at Rivendell?

Finwe · 06-06-2003, 01:48 PM

I agree with Saucepan. I don't think that Elrond was talking about the Council itself being "gathered" in Rivendell. It wasn't planned out, but once Elrond knew that everyone was there for a purpose, he probably thought that a Council would be the only way to get them all together to spill their news.

MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie · 06-06-2003, 01:53 PM

It could also be fate or destiny, if that is what Elrond meant. And yes, it does make sense what you're saying Saucepan Man.

The Only Real Estel · 06-06-2003, 03:26 PM

Although the scene whith Borimir, Legolas, & the dwarves arriving at Rivendell would seem to indicate that they'd all been summoned to the council. But PJ never said anything about Rivendell being 'hard to find' in the movie, so it didn't confuse any non-book reading fans.

MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie · 06-06-2003, 05:46 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> 'That is the purpose for which you are called hither. Called, I say,though I have not called you to me, strangers from distant lands. You have some and are here met, in this very nick of time, by chance it may seem. Yet it is not so. Believe rather that it is so ordered that we, who sit here, and none others, must now find counsel for the peril of the world. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>-Council of Elrond (Elrond is speaking)The parts in bold are to support what I said.[ June 06, 2003: Message edited by: MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie ]

Gorwingel · 06-07-2003, 12:01 AM

It is probably something that they just made more simple in the movie, than it was in the book to save time. Because if they had said that they had all came on their own journeys they would probably have to go into a lot of personal information about everyone at the council and that would have taken awhile.

dunadan_aragorn · 06-07-2003, 11:43 AM

Remember Boromir's dream? He went to "The Elven Haven of Imladris"

dunadan_aragorn · 06-07-2003, 11:44 AM

Bormir was sent to "The Elven Haven of Imladris" to find out the meaning of his dream.

06-06-2003, 10:22 AM	#1
LePetitChoux Vegetable of Doom Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: London Posts: 720	"Friends of old, you have been gathered hereto answer the threat of Mordor" I have a question concerning this, and it may be rather trivial as I have been banned (can you believe it?) from reading LotR until I read lots of other books, which I am, so therefore if my memory is slighly rusty, please forgive me.<BR>In the film, as the quote in the title of this thread suggests, Elrond is making out that the Council was summoned to Rivendell. However, I got the distinct impression from the book that Imladris was a secret valley that only elves knew how to find it(so, logically following this through, they'd really invite a load of men and dwarves to it). Also, I can almost remember that either Boromir or Gimli or both had gotten into it by accident (if this isn't accurate, please forgive me). <BR>Also, I'm sure it would have taken a lot of planning and time to summon the councilees (is that a word?), seeing as the only postage system in Middle-Earth was horseback (or maybe Fell Beasts), and news of the ring had come with Gandalf, only a few days before Frodo. Before this, as far as I can remember, Sauron's plans hadn't really been taken notice of. So how could Elrond invite everyone?<BR>I don't mean to be picky if this is another of those needless lines that just create complications among die-hard Tolkienites, but I'm wondering whether this was in the book too and I missed it. __________________ je suis une bonne odeur

06-06-2003, 10:40 AM	#2
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	Yes, LPC, you are right. They all arrived in Rivendell in pursuance of their own missions. Boromir was trying to understand the meaning of his (and Faramir's) dream about "Isildur's Bane". Legolas was bringing news of Gollum's escape, while Gloin and Gimli were (I think) bringing news of Sauron's attempt to enlist the Dwarves of the Iron Hills. Of course, these missions are not mentioned in the film (except, I think, Boromir's dream), and I am not sure if any real explanation is given as to why they were all there.<P>I agree that it does not make sense for Elrond to have gathered them all together in Rivendell at such short notice. But, couldn't that line just be referring to Elrond gathering them together in the Council chamber, rather than at Rivendell? __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

06-06-2003, 01:48 PM	#3
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	I agree with Saucepan. I don't think that Elrond was talking about the Council itself being "gathered" in Rivendell. It wasn't planned out, but once Elrond knew that everyone was there for a purpose, he probably thought that a Council would be the only way to get them all together to spill their news. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

06-06-2003, 01:53 PM	#4
MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 573	It could also be fate or destiny, if that is what Elrond meant. And yes, it does make sense what you're saying Saucepan Man. __________________ Do Not Touch -Willie

06-06-2003, 05:46 PM	#6
MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 573	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> <B>'That is the purpose for which you are called hither. Called, I say,</B>though I have not called you to me, strangers from distant lands. You have some and are here met, in this very nick of time, by chance it may seem. <B>Yet it is not so. Believe rather that it is so ordered that we, who sit here, and none others, must now find counsel for the peril of the world.</B> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>-Council of Elrond (Elrond is speaking)<P>The parts in bold are to support what I said.<p>[ June 06, 2003: Message edited by: MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie ] __________________ Do Not Touch -Willie

06-06-2003, 03:26 PM	#5
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	Although the scene whith Borimir, Legolas, & the dwarves arriving at Rivendell would seem to indicate that they'd all been summoned to the council. But PJ never said anything about Rivendell being 'hard to find' in the movie, so it didn't confuse any non-book reading fans.

06-07-2003, 12:01 AM	#7
Gorwingel Beholder of the Mists Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now Posts: 1,419	It is probably something that they just made more simple in the movie, than it was in the book to save time. Because if they had said that they had all came on their own journeys they would probably have to go into a lot of personal information about everyone at the council and that would have taken awhile. __________________ Wanted - Wonderfully witty quote that consists of pure brilliance

06-07-2003, 11:43 AM	#8
dunadan_aragorn Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: the bowels of Moria Posts: 105	Remember Boromir's dream? He went to "<B>The Elven Haven of Imladris</B>" __________________ Allia Octa Est, The Die is Cast -Julius Ceaser

06-07-2003, 11:44 AM	#9
dunadan_aragorn Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: the bowels of Moria Posts: 105	Bormir was sent to <B>"The Elven Haven of Imladris"</B> to find out the meaning of his dream. __________________ Allia Octa Est, The Die is Cast -Julius Ceaser