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01-21-2004, 05:40 PM | #1 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 63
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C. S. Lewis and Treebread
In the TT extended version, they say that Treebeard might have been a representation of C.S. Lewis, Tolkien's pal. Also, the Dead Marshes are thought to be an image of the trenches of WWI. Are there any other character's or places that you think may represent people/places of Tolkien's era?
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01-21-2004, 07:15 PM | #2 |
Psyche of Prince Immortal
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I heard somewhere that Osgiliath was kinda considered as France, since both Gondor(England) and Mordor(Germany) were each trying to take it, and in WWI, england and germany basically fought on the divided land of france
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01-21-2004, 09:08 PM | #3 |
Wight
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Treebeard may have been influenced by Tolkien's Friend C.S. Lewis, but as it has been said many times, Tolkien himself stated that thre should be no relation of anything in Middle Earth to Real life events or places i.e. WWI or WWII
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01-22-2004, 08:02 AM | #4 |
Psyche of Prince Immortal
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Treebeard "was" influenced by C.S Lewis, i do know that Tolkien hated war and everything about it
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01-22-2004, 03:55 PM | #5 |
Spectre of Decay
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According to Humphrey Carpenter's biography, Tolkien once told Nevill Coghill that he had modelled Treebeard's mannerisms of speech on "the booming voice of C.S. Lewis". Although the words are Carpenter's and not those of Tolkien or Coghill, I see no reason to doubt the truth of them.
As for there being any real interpolations, I think that Tolkien was too subtle to insert any person, place or concept into his writing as it was in the real world. He might have taken Lewis' voice for Treebeard, but the rest of the character is probably quite unlike him. Often he drew comparisons between his fiction and the real world, but only in the way that someone might compare something with a person, place or event from natural mythology. For example, after a trip to Italy in 1955, he wrote: "Venice seemed incredibly, elvishly lovely - to me like a dream of old Gondor, or Pelargir of the Númenorean Ships before the return of the Shadow." In his letters, he compares the Númenoreans with the ancient Egyptians in their burial practices, and he said that Siamese cats belonged "to the fauna of Mordor". This does not, of course, presume that Númenor is ancient Egypt or that there really were cats in Mordor: Tolkien simply saw parallels, as he expected his readers to do. Too close a portrayal of any place, person, situation or event would have smacked too much of allegory, from which he was quick to dissociate his fiction.
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01-22-2004, 09:19 PM | #6 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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I doubt that Tolkien meant for this and I am kind of getting into the symbolism again. The three main peoples of ME represent the humans of this world in three different ways. The Elves are what everyone wants to be. They are beatiful, immortal, very wise, and excelent craftsmen. The mortal men are what we actually are. We are kind of close the the elves but not close enough for our own liking. The drawves we are what we do not want to see in ourselves. They are often rude, dirty, and not all that attractive. The people of ME are symbols of our desires, reality, and what we fear in ourselves. Like I said, Tolkien probably didn't see it this way but I did.
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