What's with the cave troll? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

the phantom · 08-03-2002, 01:09 PM

I didn't see that anyone else had started a thread about this, and was very surprised. Did anyone else think the cave troll in the movie was overdone. Don't get me wrong, it made for an awesome fight scene, and I really enjoyed it, but I think they made the troll too powerful. He was taking on all nine members of the fellowship, and almost got them all. In the Silmarilion, Hurin kills 200 trolls. If they were anything like this troll, there's no way he could've done that, greatest mortal warrior or not. Also, in the book, wasn't it an orc chieftan that stabbed Frodo, not the troll? Anyway, just interested in what my fellow members think.

Aldagrim Proudfoot · 08-03-2002, 01:41 PM

I noticed that too. I think PJ changed it because he felt if they were going to mention a cave troll, they needed to make it more powerful, cause there wasn't much of it in the book. Some audiences might think it was larger and, thus, more dangerous. I think they had the troll stab Frodo instead of the chieftan because lost time on the fight scene.

Gayalondiel · 08-04-2002, 05:27 AM

a lot of filmmakers will do that - increasing the size and ability of a bad guy. There are a few plausible reasons: it makes choreography easier and gives the battle a focus/ the bad guy seems much more threatening if he's bigger/ you have to generate less smaller bad guys if you have one big one. (ok, so that doesn't really apply here...)Also, it gives a reason for how it was able to hurt both Frodo and Strider. When you look at the ease with which they kill off regular orcs, it works better if an obviously superior warrior/beast does any significant damage.Or it could just be that PJ wanted a big troll. Look at Jurassic Park: Spielberg decided that Velociraptors were not threatening enough in real life, and so doubled their size for the film.

Knight of Gondor · 08-04-2002, 09:11 PM

In the books, it says that Sauron had "redone" the trolls, so to speak. He had taught them not to be so witless, and had crafted them horrible weapons. Hence, a more menacing enemy. Plus, as stated in Sam's song, trolls' hides are difficult to pierce. Didn't anyone think Legolas looked a little jerky when he was on the troll, by the way? I mean, I don't have a visual recording of the LAST time I saw an elf jump on a cave troll ( ) but it still looked kind of strange.

Ravenna · 08-08-2002, 05:01 AM

I definately agree about Legolas, it just looked slightly wrong, the hobbits on the cave troll were similar, but not so obvious.

The Green Ringwraith · 08-08-2002, 08:21 AM

Well, its because once Boyd/Bloom/Monaghan had jumped on the troll, computer graphics clearly take over. [ August 08, 2002: Message edited by: The Green Ringwraith ]

Lhunbelethiel · 08-08-2002, 01:44 PM

Now here's a ponderous (pointless) question--Is the cave troll a he or a she?!?!

Anastasia · 08-08-2002, 01:52 PM

Is it just me, but was the troll too "computerised"? i mean in khazad-dum u couldnt really see that the bridge was computer-engineered, but the troll was obviously computerised? i know they couldnt get a guy in a suit to do that but still...

08-08-2002, 02:48 PM

I agree that Legolas jumoing around on top of the Troll looked kinda odd, but that's the limitations of CGI for you. But even so it was MILES better than the similar looking scene of anakin Skywalker in Attack of the Clones riding around on that cow creature in the meadow.

Gimli Son Of Gloin · 08-09-2002, 12:33 AM

Actually, legolas on the back of the cave troll was hilarious.

Losthuniel · 08-09-2002, 02:29 AM

I think some people will rost you and eat you for that, Gimli

08-03-2002, 01:09 PM	#1
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	What's with the cave troll? I didn't see that anyone else had started a thread about this, and was very surprised. Did anyone else think the cave troll in the movie was overdone.<BR>Don't get me wrong, it made for an awesome fight scene, and I really enjoyed it, but I think they made the troll too powerful. He was taking on all nine members of the fellowship, and almost got them all. In the Silmarilion, Hurin kills 200 trolls. If they were anything like this troll, there's no way he could've done that, greatest mortal warrior or not.<BR>Also, in the book, wasn't it an orc chieftan that stabbed Frodo, not the troll?<BR>Anyway, just interested in what my fellow members think. __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important.

08-03-2002, 01:41 PM	#2
Aldagrim Proudfoot Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 328	I noticed that too. I think PJ changed it because he felt if they were going to mention a cave troll, they needed to make it more powerful, cause there wasn't much of it in the book. Some audiences might think it was larger and, thus, more dangerous. I think they had the troll stab Frodo instead of the chieftan because lost time on the fight scene. __________________ I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!

08-04-2002, 05:27 AM	#3
Gayalondiel Wight Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: My own little wierd, wierd world Posts: 133	a lot of filmmakers will do that - increasing the size and ability of a bad guy. There are a few plausible reasons: it makes choreography easier and gives the battle a focus/ the bad guy seems much more threatening if he's bigger/ you have to generate less smaller bad guys if you have one big one. (ok, so that doesn't really apply here...)<P>Also, it gives a reason for how it was able to hurt both Frodo and Strider. When you look at the ease with which they kill off regular orcs, it works better if an obviously superior warrior/beast does any significant damage.<P>Or it could just be that PJ wanted a big troll. Look at Jurassic Park: Spielberg decided that Velociraptors were not threatening enough in real life, and so doubled their size for the film. __________________ Not another ****ing Elf! ~C.S.Lewis

08-04-2002, 09:11 PM	#4
Knight of Gondor Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 744	In the books, it says that Sauron had "redone" the trolls, so to speak. He had taught them not to be so witless, and had crafted them horrible weapons. Hence, a more menacing enemy. <P>Plus, as stated in Sam's song, trolls' hides are difficult to pierce. <P>Didn't anyone think Legolas looked a little jerky when he was on the troll, by the way? I mean, I don't have a visual recording of the LAST time I saw an elf jump on a cave troll ( ) but it still looked kind of strange. __________________ Eagerly awaiting the REAL Return of the King - Jesus Christ! Revelation 19:11-16

08-08-2002, 08:21 AM	#6
The Green Ringwraith Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: On the edge of the world I'll roam and the home of the wolf will be my home. Posts: 77	Well, its because once Boyd/Bloom/Monaghan had jumped on the troll, computer graphics clearly take over. <p>[ August 08, 2002: Message edited by: The Green Ringwraith ] __________________ -What is it about the Green ones?- "...they fell under the dominion of the One, and they became Ringwraiths... This one just got a little too gamma ray happy."

08-08-2002, 05:01 AM	#5
Ravenna Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: witney, oxfordshire Posts: 70	I definately agree about Legolas, it just looked slightly wrong, the hobbits on the cave troll were similar, but not so obvious.

08-08-2002, 01:44 PM	#7
Lhunbelethiel Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Francisco Bay Area (aka Bay of Belfalas) Posts: 103	Now here's a ponderous (pointless) question--Is the cave troll a he or a she?!?! __________________ ~~All that is gold does not glitter, not all who wander are lost, all that is old does not wither, deep roots are not touched by the frost...~~

08-08-2002, 01:52 PM	#8
Anastasia Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: London Posts: 91	Is it just me, but was the troll too "computerised"? i mean in khazad-dum u couldnt really see that the bridge was computer-engineered, but the troll was obviously computerised? i know they couldnt get a guy in a suit to do that but still... __________________ Aw, you've done grand, laddie! Now you know what you have to do: Burn the house down. Burn 'em all! ~The Leprechaun from The Simpsons.

08-08-2002, 02:48 PM	#9
Vega Guest Posts: n/a	I agree that Legolas jumoing around on top of the Troll looked kinda odd, but that's the limitations of CGI for you.<BR>But even so it was MILES better than the similar looking scene of anakin Skywalker in Attack of the Clones riding around on that cow creature in the meadow.

08-09-2002, 12:33 AM	#10
Gimli Son Of Gloin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Halls of Montezuma, and the Shores of Tripoli Posts: 495	Actually, legolas on the back of the cave troll was hilarious. __________________ The Few, the Proud, the Marines.

08-09-2002, 02:29 AM	#11
Losthuniel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The Helcaraxë- aka Canada Posts: 261	I think some people will rost you and eat you for that, Gimli __________________ ~* Losthuniel "Lord, what fools these mortals be!" Puck, Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream Abhorsen's House -- Lirael/Sabriel fanboard