Nagging Questions - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Mattius · 01-14-2003, 03:34 PM

I have a few nagging questions in my mind-

Why was Feanor such an idiot, I mean sure he was good at stuff but as soon as Morgoth took the Great Jewels he defied the Valar. Surely with patience the out come would have been the Valar going to war anyway. This leads me to my next question...

Just how many noldorin elves were there that came with Feanor and Fingolfin back to middle earth? Are we talking hundreds? thousands?......... millions?!

Also did Arwen actually BECOME mortal or did she remain an elf and die of greif after Aragorn's passing? I heard another view that because Elrond was half-elven then when he left middle earth she would become a mortal.

Last of all, is there any information on the child/children of Aragorn and Arwen?

Thank you, these are just a few nagging questions I have i'm afraid!

Legolas · 01-14-2003, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Just how many noldorin elves were there that came with Feanor and Fingolfin back to middle earth? Are we talking hundreds? thousands?......... millions?!

In my estimation, probably hundreds, maybe thousands.

Quote:

Also did Arwen actually BECOME mortal or did she remain an elf and die of greif after Aragorn's passing? I heard another view that because Elrond was half-elven then when he left middle earth she would become a mortal.

Arwen was *never* an elf. Elrond, his children, his brother, and his parents were half-elven. They united the blood lines of the two man-elf unifications (Earendil from Luthien/Beren, Elwing from Tuor/Idril). Eru (God - Creator of the world) gave the half-elven the choice - to share the fate of man of the fate of elves. Mortality or immortality.

Elrond chose to be counted among the elves. Arwen, Elladan, and Elrohir, his children, had until Elrond left for Valinor to decide whether or not they would be immortal or mortal. Arwen chose the mortal path, obviously.

It is a common misconception that elves can give up their immortality - they cannot. They do not have that right. Only Eru can grant immortality or mortality. Luthien was made mortal for her great deads; Tuor was made immortal for his great deeds.

For the full explanation on this, I wrote an article:
http://www.barrowdowns.com/faq_halfelves.asp

Quote:

Last of all, is there any information on the child/children of Aragorn and Arwen?

Not really. They had a son, Eldarion, who inherited his father's throne, and unnamed, unnumbered daugthers.

Raefindel · 01-14-2003, 07:18 PM

Asking why someone is such an IDIOT (in my humble estimation) is like asking why is my Mother-in-law such a PAIN...because it's her job to be such.

doug*platypus · 01-15-2003, 05:32 AM

Great answer to the Arwen question, Legalos, I actually preferred that post to the article. Up until then my own view on her situation was still a little fuzzy. I can definitely remember reading quotes that back up what you say, though.

Mattius, Fëanor while he had his faults was not an idiot in the literal sense. And I for one think he was more brave than foolish. He wasn't willing to stay and simply be a tool of the Valar, who he thought were unjustly keeping the elves within the Undying Lands. A popular opinion considering the hosts that followed him back into the Hither Lands. Part of his unrest was caused by Melkor, but also he was just too much of an individual, and a gifted one at that, to feel constrained by the Valar.

His theme song would be "You're Not the Boss of Me Now" from Malcolm in the Middle.

03-03-2003, 04:27 PM

There is some stuff(very little) on Aragorn and Arwen's kids, but it only says
DAUGHTER(S)and SON

Feanor was such an idiot because he created the Silmarrils therefore he had great longing for them I think that it was probably in the 10000's of elves going with Feanor and Fingolfin

Mattius · 03-03-2003, 04:30 PM

Thank you one and all!

merenwen · 03-04-2003, 05:15 PM

i got a question for neone who has time to answer it. was gollum/smeagol ever good? i mean i know the ring overpowered him and all that, but was there even a little bit good in him, like when he was on the "mission" with frodo and sam? i hope so!!

HCIsland · 03-04-2003, 07:12 PM

Absolutely, I would say there was good in him and absolutely I would say there was evil in him right from the start. After all, you could have timed from the Ring showing up to him killing Deagol with a stopwatch.

I think Smeagol's character was fatally flawed and when he killed Deagol he crossed a line from which he could never return no matter how hard he tried.

I know this is the book forum, but I love these lines from Gollum's Song on TTT soundtrack.

"These tears you cry
Have come to late"

H.C.

merenwen · 03-04-2003, 07:56 PM

that's what i thought, only i wasn't quite possative.. while reading two towers i found out that gollum had gone to see shelob be4 and stuff, and i didn't expect that! maybe i'm just kinda slow but it was very suprising!ok i'm gonna quit talking now.i'm confusing myself [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

merenwen · 03-04-2003, 08:14 PM

MORE QUESTIONS!! ok since i'm, like, one of the only ppl on this thread, i'm just going to ask questions and see if anyone writes back!sound like fun? oh it will be! *pulls herself out one of her little quirks :P* ok now, in return of the king, who were the "Dead" that followed aragorn and his company through the paths of the dead, and how did they break their oath?

Arvedui III · 03-04-2003, 08:19 PM

Shouldn't this be in the quiz room? anyway...
The dead were the people of Erech who broke their oath to Isildor to fight agenst Sauron.

merenwen · 03-04-2003, 08:32 PM

thanx!, i dont know i just came here and started asking ??.

Silmarien · 03-04-2003, 08:55 PM

I'm still quite new here but I think if you're asking questions about the books for infomation it would belong here, otherwise it probably should be in the quiz one. It started out as the first one, but it might have become the second.
OK now I'm confusing my self. [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]

merenwen · 03-05-2003, 05:18 PM

true true! i'm kinda new too prolly newer than you but nnnneeee waay i have lots of questions and i think it's easier to ask them what the thread is slow-going or however you wanna say it. tata!!

01-14-2003, 03:34 PM	#1
Mattius Soul of Fire Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of Steel Posts: 666	Nagging Questions I have a few nagging questions in my mind- Why was Feanor such an idiot, I mean sure he was good at stuff but as soon as Morgoth took the Great Jewels he defied the Valar. Surely with patience the out come would have been the Valar going to war anyway. This leads me to my next question... Just how many noldorin elves were there that came with Feanor and Fingolfin back to middle earth? Are we talking hundreds? thousands?......... millions?! Also did Arwen actually BECOME mortal or did she remain an elf and die of greif after Aragorn's passing? I heard another view that because Elrond was half-elven then when he left middle earth she would become a mortal. Last of all, is there any information on the child/children of Aragorn and Arwen? Thank you, these are just a few nagging questions I have i'm afraid! __________________ A problem shared is a problem halved, so is your problem really yours or just half of someone else's?

01-14-2003, 07:18 PM	#3
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,313	Asking why someone is such an IDIOT (in my humble estimation) is like asking why is my Mother-in-law such a PAIN...because it's her job to be such. __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1

01-15-2003, 05:32 AM	#4
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	Great answer to the Arwen question, Legalos, I actually preferred that post to the article. Up until then my own view on her situation was still a little fuzzy. I can definitely remember reading quotes that back up what you say, though. Mattius, Fëanor while he had his faults was not an idiot in the literal sense. And I for one think he was more brave than foolish. He wasn't willing to stay and simply be a tool of the Valar, who he thought were unjustly keeping the elves within the Undying Lands. A popular opinion considering the hosts that followed him back into the Hither Lands. Part of his unrest was caused by Melkor, but also he was just too much of an individual, and a gifted one at that, to feel constrained by the Valar. His theme song would be "You're Not the Boss of Me Now" from Malcolm in the Middle. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

03-03-2003, 04:30 PM	#6
Mattius Soul of Fire Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of Steel Posts: 666	Thank you one and all! __________________ A problem shared is a problem halved, so is your problem really yours or just half of someone else's?

03-04-2003, 05:15 PM	#7
merenwen Animated Skeleton Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: in my happy place! Posts: 47	i got a question for neone who has time to answer it. was gollum/smeagol ever good? i mean i know the ring overpowered him and all that, but was there even a little bit good in him, like when he was on the "mission" with frodo and sam? i hope so!! __________________ " you are a total... total... a word has yet to be invented to describe how totally whatever it is you are, but you are one, and a total, total one at that!"

03-03-2003, 04:27 PM	#5
Gurlie Guest Posts: n/a	There is some stuff(very little) on Aragorn and Arwen's kids, but it only says DAUGHTER(S)and SON Feanor was such an idiot because he created the Silmarrils therefore he had great longing for them I think that it was probably in the 10000's of elves going with Feanor and Fingolfin

03-04-2003, 07:12 PM	#8
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	Absolutely, I would say there was good in him and absolutely I would say there was evil in him right from the start. After all, you could have timed from the Ring showing up to him killing Deagol with a stopwatch. I think Smeagol's character was fatally flawed and when he killed Deagol he crossed a line from which he could never return no matter how hard he tried. I know this is the book forum, but I love these lines from Gollum's Song on TTT soundtrack. "These tears you cry Have come to late" H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

03-04-2003, 07:56 PM	#9
merenwen Animated Skeleton Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: in my happy place! Posts: 47	that's what i thought, only i wasn't quite possative.. while reading two towers i found out that gollum had gone to see shelob be4 and stuff, and i didn't expect that! maybe i'm just kinda slow but it was very suprising!ok i'm gonna quit talking now.i'm confusing myself [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] __________________ " you are a total... total... a word has yet to be invented to describe how totally whatever it is you are, but you are one, and a total, total one at that!"

03-04-2003, 08:14 PM	#10
merenwen Animated Skeleton Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: in my happy place! Posts: 47	MORE QUESTIONS!! ok since i'm, like, one of the only ppl on this thread, i'm just going to ask questions and see if anyone writes back!sound like fun? oh it will be! pulls herself out one of her little quirks :P ok now, in return of the king, who were the "Dead" that followed aragorn and his company through the paths of the dead, and how did they break their oath? __________________ " you are a total... total... a word has yet to be invented to describe how totally whatever it is you are, but you are one, and a total, total one at that!"

03-04-2003, 08:19 PM	#11
Arvedui III Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In Rohan, with Carolina on my mind Posts: 629	Shouldn't this be in the quiz room? anyway... The dead were the people of Erech who broke their oath to Isildor to fight agenst Sauron. __________________ I have no idea what you just said, but I'm inspired!

03-04-2003, 08:32 PM	#12
merenwen Animated Skeleton Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: in my happy place! Posts: 47	thanx!, i dont know i just came here and started asking ??. __________________ " you are a total... total... a word has yet to be invented to describe how totally whatever it is you are, but you are one, and a total, total one at that!"

03-04-2003, 08:55 PM	#13
Silmarien Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lost but Found Posts: 199	I'm still quite new here but I think if you're asking questions about the books for infomation it would belong here, otherwise it probably should be in the quiz one. It started out as the first one, but it might have become the second. OK now I'm confusing my self. [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] __________________ Though here at journeys end I lie in dakness buried deep, beyond all towers strong and high beyond all mountains steep, above all shadows rides the Sun and Stars forever dwell:I will not say the Day is done nor bid the Stars farewell!

03-05-2003, 05:18 PM	#14
merenwen Animated Skeleton Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: in my happy place! Posts: 47	true true! i'm kinda new too prolly newer than you but nnnneeee waay i have lots of questions and i think it's easier to ask them what the thread is slow-going or however you wanna say it. tata!! __________________ " you are a total... total... a word has yet to be invented to describe how totally whatever it is you are, but you are one, and a total, total one at that!"