Will he or won't he? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Bêthberry · 01-09-2003, 07:03 AM

Or should he is the more apt question. Oscar nomination debate this year includes much yaying and naying over whether animated characters should receive nominations. The debate arises due to Andy Serkis' upstaging performance as Gollem in TTT.What would be the criteria for awarding an Oscar to a CGI performance?In keeping with Serkis' performance of both sides now, here is an article which swings both ways: <A HREF="http://www.nationalpost.com/artslife/" TARGET=_blank>Is Gollem Worthy?</A>Bethberry

Gorwingel · 01-09-2003, 02:25 PM

I don't think that he will be nominated for best supporting actor, because they seem to have so many other choices. Even though he did do a wonderful job portraying Gollum, exactly like in the book.[ January 09, 2003: Message edited by: Gorwingel ]

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 01-09-2003, 03:40 PM

The Two Towers will probably win best technology or whatever the category is, but no big awards.Can't give an award for a fantasy film now can they!

-Imrahil- · 01-09-2003, 06:29 PM

lol ya Eomer. No awards for fantasy! Only drama

**The Saucepan Man** · 01-09-2003, 06:35 PM

Interesting article Bethberry.I would go with the "Yes" part of it - Andy Serkis certainly should be eligible for nomination. The voice is his, the movements are his and the facial expressions are his. If that's not acting (and mighty fine acting too), then I don't know what is. I think that the John Hurt/ Elephant Man example is a very good one. The character hardy looked like John Hurt but the acting was his.The "No" part of the article argues that he is undeserving because it was a team effort. But so is any acting performance. All actors are, to some degree or other, directed. Make up artists and costume people alter their appearance. Just because a director guides an actor on how to portray a certain scene or deliver a certain line does not mean the actor is not acting.So, yes - he should be eligible for nomination. But, 'though I think he deserves it, I doubt that he will be. This is a fantasy film, after all.

Bêthberry · 01-10-2003, 11:13 AM

Greetings and welcome to the Downs, Saucepan Man,The fact that you took the time to read the article impresses me--I'm by no means being sarcastic here--I'm really looking forward to reading more of your posts.I was a bit disappointed that Cowan's "No" article was dependent on so many of his examples in his "Yes" article, but I agree that his main point doesn't hold up. Film is a collective art by and large, filtered through the director and editing, although great artists can by the strength of their vision make their own unique presence known. I also liked Cowan's discussion of Serkis' voice pyrotechnics. It is rare to see that kind of analysis given to acting performances.I wonder, though, does Serkis' performance show so very well because it was a great performance or because no one else in TTT gave a remarkable performance? In my most cynical moments, I consider nominating Elijah Woods' eyes, for that is all we got. The love scenes between Arwen and Aragorn made me laugh because they were so devoid of passion. Or maybe I should use a word from the X Files lexicon, no on-screen chemistry.Bethberry

Thingol1000 · 01-10-2003, 11:29 AM

oh boy Bethberry, do I disagree. I thought all the performances were damm good, Eowyn and Arwen's especially. Only my opinion here but you are waaayyy wrong.

**The Saucepan Man** · 01-10-2003, 09:22 PM

Thanks for the welcome Bethberry. I've only been here a few days, but I'm having a ball.I don't wholly agree about the acting, though. I'm of the "enjoyed the film for what it was" school (although I was rather preoccupied with the drastic changes first time round, so am going again). As a film, I thought that it was very good indeed, and that includes the acting.Serkis is of course way out in front, but I liked Sean Astin (funnily enough more than in the first film). Also, Ian McKellen (to the extent he was there), Christopher Lee, Brad Dourif and Bernard Hill were very good (as would be expected), and I was pleasantly surprised by Miranda Otto.Of course, Viggo, Elijah and Orlando don't have to worry about great performances - they just have to look good! Actually, I have been impressed by Viggo Mortenson too.

Nenya · 01-11-2003, 11:28 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I consider nominating Elijah Woods' eyes<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> LOL, Bethberry. But you made a good point there. I'm far less critical and cynical than you, but I do sometimes wonder: would I still think that Ian Mckellan's performance was wonderful, if I hadn't first been a fan of the book? Are these chracters just so dear to me, that when someone manages to play them even adequately, I'm ready to praise them beyond any limit? I hope not. What makes me hopeful, is that I didn't use to be a big fan of Eowyn or Boromir, but I think Miranda Otto and Sean Bean did very well.

Nenya · 01-11-2003, 11:35 AM

Oh, and this is totally off-topic (as was my last post...): if Aragorn and Arwen didn't have any chemistry, Aragorn and Eowyn sure did! I felt like yelling "Ditch that elf, you idiot!" to Aragorn troughout the movie...But that's just me.

doug*platypus · 01-11-2003, 11:46 PM

... yeah, but she has a really big forehead. See <A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=001567" TARGET=_blank>here</A> for more reasons.Thanks for providing the link, Bethberry. I'd have to say one of the happiest TV related moments in my life was seeing Chewbacca (not Peter Mayhew, but Chewbacca) go up to accept an MTV award for Lifetime Achievement. Maybe they can put a big blue screen up behind the stage, have Andy Serkis in a body suit, and add Gollum later. I know it's not the Oscars, but I think it will be several years before the Academy starts giving out awards to CG characters. See <A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=000511" TARGET=_blank>here</A> for more Oscar fun.

01-09-2003, 07:03 AM	#1
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,996	Will he or won't he? Or should he is the more apt question. <P>Oscar nomination debate this year includes much yaying and naying over whether animated characters should receive nominations. The debate arises due to Andy Serkis' upstaging performance as Gollem in TTT.<P>What would be the criteria for awarding an Oscar to a CGI performance?<P>In keeping with Serkis' performance of both sides now, here is an article which swings both ways:<P> <A HREF="http://www.nationalpost.com/artslife/" TARGET=_blank>Is Gollem Worthy?</A><P>Bethberry __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

01-09-2003, 02:25 PM	#2
Gorwingel Beholder of the Mists Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now Posts: 1,419	I don't think that he will be nominated for best supporting actor, because they seem to have so many other choices.<BR>Even though he did do a wonderful job portraying Gollum, exactly like in the book.<p>[ January 09, 2003: Message edited by: Gorwingel ] __________________ Wanted - Wonderfully witty quote that consists of pure brilliance

01-09-2003, 03:40 PM	#3
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	The Two Towers will probably win best technology or whatever the category is, but no big awards.<P>Can't give an award for a fantasy film now can they! __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

01-09-2003, 06:29 PM	#4
-Imrahil- Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Dol Amroth, upon the Bay of Belfalas Posts: 259	lol ya Eomer. No awards for fantasy! Only drama __________________ My body is broken. I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company I shall not now be ashamed. I felled the black serpent. A grim morn, and a glad day, and a golden sunset!

01-09-2003, 06:35 PM	#5
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	Interesting article Bethberry.<P>I would go with the "Yes" part of it - Andy Serkis certainly should be eligible for nomination. The voice is his, the movements are his and the facial expressions are his. If that's not acting (and mighty fine acting too), then I don't know what is. I think that the John Hurt/ Elephant Man example is a very good one. The character hardy looked like John Hurt but the acting was his.<P>The "No" part of the article argues that he is undeserving because it was a team effort. But so is any acting performance. All actors are, to some degree or other, directed. Make up artists and costume people alter their appearance. Just because a director guides an actor on how to portray a certain scene or deliver a certain line does not mean the actor is not acting.<P>So, yes - he should be eligible for nomination. But, 'though I think he deserves it, I doubt that he will be. This is a fantasy film, after all. __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

01-10-2003, 11:13 AM	#6
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,996	Greetings and welcome to the Downs, <B>Saucepan Man</B>,<P>The fact that you took the time to read the article impresses me--I'm by no means being sarcastic here--I'm really looking forward to reading more of your posts.<P>I was a bit disappointed that Cowan's "No" article was dependent on so many of his examples in his "Yes" article, but I agree that his main point doesn't hold up. Film is a collective art by and large, filtered through the director and editing, although great artists can by the strength of their vision make their own unique presence known. <P>I also liked Cowan's discussion of Serkis' voice pyrotechnics. It is rare to see that kind of analysis given to acting performances.<P>I wonder, though, does Serkis' performance show so very well because it was a great performance or because no one else in TTT gave a remarkable performance? In my most cynical moments, I consider nominating Elijah Woods' eyes, for that is all we got. The love scenes between Arwen and Aragorn made me laugh because they were so devoid of passion. Or maybe I should use a word from the X Files lexicon, no on-screen chemistry.<P>Bethberry __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

01-10-2003, 11:29 AM	#7
Thingol1000 Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 37	oh boy Bethberry, do I disagree.<BR>I thought all the performances were damm good, Eowyn and Arwen's especially. Only my opinion here but you are waaayyy wrong.

01-10-2003, 09:22 PM	#8
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	Thanks for the welcome Bethberry. I've only been here a few days, but I'm having a ball.<P>I don't wholly agree about the acting, though. I'm of the "enjoyed the film for what it was" school (although I was rather preoccupied with the drastic changes first time round, so am going again). As a film, I thought that it was very good indeed, and that includes the acting.<P>Serkis is of course way out in front, but I liked Sean Astin (funnily enough more than in the first film). Also, Ian McKellen (to the extent he was there), Christopher Lee, Brad Dourif and Bernard Hill were very good (as would be expected), and I was pleasantly surprised by Miranda Otto.<P>Of course, Viggo, Elijah and Orlando don't have to worry about great performances - they just have to look good! Actually, I have been impressed by Viggo Mortenson too. __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

01-11-2003, 11:28 AM	#9
Nenya Wight Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the hand of Lady Galadriel Posts: 127	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I consider nominating Elijah Woods' eyes<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>LOL, Bethberry. <BR>But you made a good point there. I'm far less critical and cynical than you, but I do sometimes wonder: would I still think that Ian Mckellan's performance was wonderful, if I hadn't first been a fan of the book? Are these chracters just so dear to me, that when someone manages to play them even adequately, I'm ready to praise them beyond any limit? I hope not. What makes me hopeful, is that I didn't use to be a big fan of Eowyn or Boromir, but I think Miranda Otto and Sean Bean did very well.

01-11-2003, 11:35 AM	#10
Nenya Wight Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the hand of Lady Galadriel Posts: 127	Oh, and this is totally off-topic (as was my last post...): if Aragorn and Arwen didn't have any chemistry, Aragorn and Eowyn sure did! I felt like yelling "Ditch that elf, you idiot!" to Aragorn troughout the movie...But that's just me.

01-11-2003, 11:46 PM	#11
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	... yeah, but she has a <I>really</I> big forehead. See <A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=001567" TARGET=_blank>here</A> for more reasons.<P>Thanks for providing the link, Bethberry. I'd have to say one of the happiest TV related moments in my life was seeing Chewbacca (<B>not</B> Peter Mayhew, but Chewbacca) go up to accept an MTV award for Lifetime Achievement. Maybe they can put a big blue screen up behind the stage, have Andy Serkis in a body suit, and add Gollum later. I know it's not the Oscars, but I think it will be several years before the Academy starts giving out awards to CG characters. See <A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=000511" TARGET=_blank>here</A> for more Oscar fun. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.