Call me cynical, but... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

01-04-2003, 12:24 PM

Firstly, I am a new member and this is my first post so: hello and a prosperous new year to all at the Barrowdowns.I have been a LOTR fan for many years and welcome the fact that the technology is now available to make a stab (no pun intended) at making the film. Having watched the first two parts (I do not see TTT or RTOTK as sequels)I am of the opinion that PJ has made a valiant effort. However, Is it just me or has anybody else picked up on what looks like a blatent piece of commercialism in the releasing of the 'theatrical' and extended DVD's in a relatively short space of time?Further, having watched the director's commentry on the special features, I picked up on PJ saying that several scenes were shot but were not wholely shown on the extended edtion. Does this mean that there are scenes that will eventually be seen on a specially extended extended version to be released possibly after all three parts of the film have been shown?I'm not neieve in that I realise that success these days for a film is not measured in awards so much as takings. By this maxim then PJ may well have directed the most successful film in cinematic history.Anyway, your comments will be appreciated on this and I am sorry for the length of this post.

the mortal elf · 01-04-2003, 01:32 PM

Welcome to the Barrow Downs! Have fun being dead. Actually, I don't think that there will be a special extended extended edition (although I really hope that I'm wrong). Those were just tidbits that didn't "move the story along." Besides, even LotR fanatics like us might get bored with a 4 and a half hour long movie (along with 6+ hours of bonus stuff in the appendices) Too bad...

eleanor_niphredil · 01-04-2003, 01:46 PM

He deserves to have the most sucessful film in cinematic history. What he has done in these last few years is so wonderful. And I really hope for a special extended extended version, though I also doubt there will be one. I agree that there is too much commercialism for LOTR, but I dont think that PJ is the one responsible for it. The worst was the Burger King toys. It takes the meaning out of LOTR to see it splashed around everywhere.

dunedain_aragorn · 01-04-2003, 01:53 PM

its not pj's fault the commercialism is out of hand. he said himself he's unhappy with it, b/c tolkien would be furious! (he really would)

the mortal elf · 01-04-2003, 02:00 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> its not pj's fault the commercialism is out of hand. he said himself he's unhappy with it, b/c tolkien would be furious! (he really would) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah! Luckily, his ghost can't wreak havoc on the world because of everybody's shallowness. I can imagine Christopher bursting a blood vessel right now, though.

Armani_Elf · 01-05-2003, 01:21 AM

mae govennan, mellon nin to the barrowdowns forum.I heard the movie was to be a good 6 hours long if everything is included. I do not know of any special extended version or anything, but who knows? maybe one day it might come out. But do not trust hope.for it is forsaken in this time of the world.peace

Iargwath · 01-05-2003, 02:36 AM

Remeber that the Extended Version was a special version of the film for the fans of the books...PJ has expressed this before. Also the extended version was specially designed so it could be 'viewable' Six hours is a very long time for any film, and this extended version was designed for those purposes. To please the lovers of the books and to also for people to be able to watch numerous times.

Gorwingel · 01-05-2003, 02:42 AM

I think they will probably have a 3 movie set with special features for the entire series after the 3 movies come out. But I think that the extended editions for FOTR, TTT, and ROTK are the final "changed" versions that we will see.Oh and Welcome to the Downs

Pookabunny · 01-05-2003, 03:20 AM

The Special Fantastic Skippy Slippy Slappy Happy Fun set will be as follows:All of the Lord of the Rings films from the animated versions, to the Big whooptie doo live action versions, the Hobbit animated television series AND that homemade version you made with your brother when you were 10.AND it'll include all Star Wars movies after the last one is made. OH and the X-men films. And the Harry Potter films. OOOOH and all the Matrix movies!!! JUST FOR THE SMACKIN' GOOD OF IT! TOP THAT!Serious, I'm interested in seeing what that 3-film compilation will be...hmmmm.....You're not cynical...my therapist says I'm eccentric, whatever that means... [ January 05, 2003: Message edited by: Pookabunny ]

01-05-2003, 03:30 AM

Hi there,I am new here also but I would like to add that while I also find the comercial angle that has been taken with The LOTR films distasteful, I beleve that the financial succsess of the LOTR trilogy will help encourage the film industry to take a look at High Fantasy as a Viable genre. We can hope that as the net widens for film scripts that other authors works also get the Peter Jackson treatment. I for one am hoping that Messers Gemmell/Feist and Lady Hobb all are in the running for Films of there Work.

doug*platypus · 01-05-2003, 03:47 AM

I'm also cynical about the Extended DVD, but for a different reason. There is a disturbing trend of important scenes being cut and then turning up on the Extended DVD. The Downs is littered with comments along the lines of "boy, I really hated how they didn't show *insert scene/dialogue*, but I hear it'll be in the Extended version. Don't get me wrong, I'm SO grateful for this brilliant new medium, it's gonna make big changes to entertainment. I think that so long as filmmakers have this safety net to fall back on, they won't be under pressure to create the best possible cut for the cinemas.<A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=001578" TARGET=_blank>Here</A> is a link that I thought would have some good comments on the Extended DVD, but right now doesn't have a lot on offer. Maybe you can add something.On the commercialism thing, it's not as bad as I thought it would be. Before the movies came out my stock joke was "I can't wait to get a Frodo happy meal!". At least it's not as over-the-top as Star Wars. Waylander - GREAT name! - I'm sure fantasy will explode onto the scene after LOTR's success, but that might not be a good thing. A lot of fantasy films I've seen up to now are nothing but mush crudely designed just to get audiences to the box office, and aren't very good (Dungeons & Dragons comes to mind).

01-05-2003, 04:39 AM

Doug,I have to agree with you about D&D, truly abysmal, but there are dodgy films In any genre, eg after Star Wars came The Last Starfighter, On the whole though Star Wars provided the Boost that turned SF into a Mainstream Genre.I wonder What PJ would have done with Dune?

mollecon · 01-05-2003, 05:12 PM

Well, at least New Line Cinema had the decency to actually tell people about the various versions before hand - & their release dates. Many just let people buy the first version to come out with a 'directors cut' (or whatever) at a later date without any 'warning'...

01-05-2003, 07:42 PM

Nefturion,The same thing occured to me. I guess we will find out in a couple years.I enjoy the movies but if they couldn't make money with them they wouldn't have made them. Abigail

QuickSlash · 01-05-2003, 08:54 PM

I've been wondering what'll be on the three movie set since before Fellowship was out. ~_^ I don't think, though, that they'll extend the movie any more. Even dedicated fans wouldn't be able to sit through a movie after so long. Besides, they had to compose a new song for the extended edition, and specially edit the scenes to make it fit. I don't think they'd do that much work for all three movies again. Some things just have to be cut.I think that there'll just be more behind the scenes info and whatnot. Probably something more, but I can't guess right now.

01-07-2003, 02:24 AM

okay, I must admit that I held out for what I thought would be a "special edition" dvd for the FOTR... Consider that filming/editing/researching all that the dvd covers took a long time and I'm sure New Line didn't want to wait for PJ and the crew to complete it before selling the movie...try to think of it as a bonus and not as an evil ploy to get more money from you. I work in post production and everything takes 3 times longer than expected. I can't imagine the clearance route on this one...whoa. Daunting. Do this...just sell your original dvd on ebay and/or trade it in for the upgrade. Also, as a side note...I don't particularily see these films as "commercial". "Maid in Manhattan" commercial, "Scream 3" commercial...a movie about beloved hobbits, wizards, elves, demons and talking trees??? Not so commercial. The reason why these movies are so popular is because there is such a fan base for the literature. Plus, all of us hard core freaks are going back and paying $10 each time to see the movie over and over again. And, of course there is word of mouth (i.e. getting our "Catch Me If You Can" friends out to see the move that we love so much). Finally, there is the writing...I have NEVER read anything so mezmorizing and exciting. Everything starts with a good script...JRRT wrote amazing books and PJ (& crew) have created epic and exciting movies...bravo!!!

01-04-2003, 12:24 PM	#1
Nefturion Guest Posts: n/a	Call me cynical, but... Firstly, I am a new member and this is my first post so: hello and a prosperous new year to all at the Barrowdowns.<P>I have been a LOTR fan for many years and welcome the fact that the technology is now available to make a stab (no pun intended) at making the film. Having watched the first two parts (I do not see TTT or RTOTK as sequels)I am of the opinion that PJ has made a valiant effort. However, Is it just me or has anybody else picked up on what looks like a blatent piece of commercialism in the releasing of the 'theatrical' and extended DVD's in a relatively short space of time?<P>Further, having watched the director's commentry on the special features, I picked up on PJ saying that several scenes were shot but were not wholely shown on the extended edtion. Does this mean that there are scenes that will eventually be seen on a specially extended extended version to be released possibly after all three parts of the film have been shown?<P>I'm not neieve in that I realise that success these days for a film is not measured in awards so much as takings. By this maxim then PJ may well have directed the most successful film in cinematic history.<P>Anyway, your comments will be appreciated on this and I am sorry for the length of this post.

01-04-2003, 01:32 PM	#2
the mortal elf Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away... Posts: 201	Welcome to the Barrow Downs! Have fun being dead. <P>Actually, I don't think that there will be a special extended extended edition (although I really hope that I'm wrong). Those were just tidbits that didn't "move the story along." Besides, even LotR fanatics like us might get bored with a 4 and a half hour long movie (along with 6+ hours of bonus stuff in the appendices) Too bad... __________________ My imaginary friend says you have problems.

01-04-2003, 01:46 PM	#3
eleanor_niphredil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: england Posts: 805	He deserves to have the most sucessful film in cinematic history. What he has done in these last few years is so wonderful. And I really hope for a special extended extended version, though I also doubt there will be one. <P>I agree that there is too much commercialism for LOTR, but I dont think that PJ is the one responsible for it. The worst was the Burger King toys. It takes the meaning out of LOTR to see it splashed around everywhere. __________________ Here I am, brain the size of a planet, and they ask me to spend my time on this forum. And by the way, for any of you turning into a penguin, stop it. ~* I am Pippin took in the Female Fellowship*~

01-04-2003, 01:53 PM	#4
dunedain_aragorn Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: a Mcdonald's Happy Meal Posts: 47	its not pj's fault the commercialism is out of hand. he said himself he's unhappy with it, b/c tolkien would be furious! (he really would) __________________ "I must take leave, I have not slept since Dunnharrow, and I am weary."said Aragorn. Merry seized his hand and kissed it."I am frightfully sorry, we have been a nuisance to you since Bree." Aragorn laughed and left them. "Was there ever any like him?" said Pippin,"Except for Gandalf of course. I believe they must be related."

01-04-2003, 02:00 PM	#5
the mortal elf Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away... Posts: 201	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> its not pj's fault the commercialism is out of hand. he said himself he's unhappy with it, b/c tolkien would be furious! (he really would) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yeah! Luckily, his ghost can't wreak havoc on the world because of everybody's shallowness. I can imagine Christopher bursting a blood vessel right now, though. __________________ My imaginary friend says you have problems.

01-05-2003, 01:21 AM	#6
Armani_Elf Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: a mere Ghostly Wanderer Posts: 29	mae govennan, mellon nin to the barrowdowns forum.<P>I heard the movie was to be a good 6 hours long if everything is included. I do not know of any special extended version or anything, but who knows? maybe one day it might come out. But do not trust hope.for it is forsaken in this time of the world.<P>peace __________________ An elf in an Armani suit

01-05-2003, 02:36 AM	#7
Iargwath Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 236	Remeber that the Extended Version was a special version of the film for the fans of the books...PJ has expressed this before. Also the extended version was specially designed so it could be 'viewable' Six hours is a very long time for any film, and this extended version was designed for those purposes. To please the lovers of the books and to also for people to be able to watch numerous times. __________________ 'I waited patiently for the Lord; and He inclined to me, and heard my cry'-Psalm 40 My M-e Forum

01-05-2003, 02:42 AM	#8
Gorwingel Beholder of the Mists Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now Posts: 1,419	I think they will probably have a 3 movie set with special features for the entire series after the 3 movies come out. But I think that the extended editions for FOTR, TTT, and ROTK are the final "changed" versions that we will see.<P>Oh and Welcome to the Downs __________________ Wanted - Wonderfully witty quote that consists of pure brilliance

01-05-2003, 03:20 AM	#9
Pookabunny Wight Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The only place that matters! Posts: 181	The Special Fantastic Skippy Slippy Slappy Happy Fun set will be as follows:<P>All of the Lord of the Rings films from the animated versions, to the Big whooptie doo live action versions, the Hobbit animated television series AND that homemade version you made with your brother when you were 10.<P>AND it'll include all Star Wars movies after the last one is made. OH and the X-men films. And the Harry Potter films. OOOOH and all the Matrix movies!!!<BR>JUST FOR THE SMACKIN' GOOD OF IT! <P>TOP THAT!<P>Serious, I'm interested in seeing what that 3-film compilation will be...hmmmm.....<P>You're not cynical...my therapist says I'm eccentric, whatever that means... <BR> <p>[ January 05, 2003: Message edited by: Pookabunny ] __________________ "I love you more than I did the week before, I discovered alcohol" - Bare Naked Ladies

01-05-2003, 03:30 AM	#10
Waylander Guest Posts: n/a	Hi there,<P>I am new here also but I would like to add that while I also find the comercial angle that has been taken with The LOTR films distasteful, I beleve that the financial succsess of the LOTR trilogy will help encourage the film industry to take a look at High Fantasy as a Viable genre. <P>We can hope that as the net widens for film scripts that other authors works also get the Peter Jackson treatment. I for one am hoping that Messers Gemmell/Feist and Lady Hobb all are in the running for Films of there Work.

01-05-2003, 03:47 AM	#11
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	I'm also cynical about the Extended DVD, but for a different reason. There is a disturbing trend of important scenes being cut and then turning up on the Extended DVD. The Downs is littered with comments along the lines of "boy, I really hated how they didn't show insert scene/dialogue, but I hear it'll be in the Extended version. Don't get me wrong, I'm SO grateful for this brilliant new medium, it's gonna make big changes to entertainment. I think that so long as filmmakers have this safety net to fall back on, they won't be under pressure to create the best possible cut for the cinemas.<P><A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=001578" TARGET=_blank>Here</A> is a link that I <I>thought</I> would have some good comments on the Extended DVD, but right now doesn't have a lot on offer. Maybe you can add something.<P>On the commercialism thing, it's not as bad as I thought it would be. Before the movies came out my stock joke was "I can't wait to get a Frodo happy meal!". At least it's not as over-the-top as Star Wars. Waylander - GREAT name! - I'm sure fantasy will explode onto the scene after LOTR's success, but that might not be a good thing. A lot of fantasy films I've seen up to now are nothing but mush crudely designed just to get audiences to the box office, and aren't very good (Dungeons & Dragons comes to mind). __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

01-05-2003, 04:39 AM	#12
Waylander Guest Posts: n/a	Doug,<P>I have to agree with you about D&D, truly abysmal, but there are dodgy films In any genre, eg after Star Wars came The Last Starfighter, On the whole though Star Wars provided the Boost that turned SF into a Mainstream Genre.<P>I wonder What PJ would have done with Dune?

01-05-2003, 05:12 PM	#13
mollecon Wight Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 188	Well, at least New Line Cinema had the decency to actually <I>tell</I> people about the various versions before hand - & their release dates. Many just let people buy the first version to come out with a 'directors cut' (or whatever) at a later date <I>without</I> any 'warning'...

01-05-2003, 07:42 PM	#14
Abigail the Just Guest Posts: n/a	Nefturion,<P>The same thing occured to me. I guess we will find out in a couple years.<P>I enjoy the movies but if they couldn't make money with them they wouldn't have made them. <P>Abigail

01-05-2003, 08:54 PM	#15
QuickSlash Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Not here. Posts: 121	I've been wondering what'll be on the three movie set since before Fellowship was out. ~_^ I don't think, though, that they'll extend the movie any more. Even dedicated fans wouldn't be able to sit through a movie after so long. Besides, they had to compose a new song for the extended edition, and specially edit the scenes to make it fit. I don't think they'd do that much work for all three movies again. Some things just have to be cut.<P>I think that there'll just be more behind the scenes info and whatnot. Probably something more, but I can't guess right now. __________________ We're here and now, but will we ever be again? / 'Cause I have found / All that shimmers in this world is sure to fade, away, again. -Shimmer, Fuel

01-07-2003, 02:24 AM	#16
hollyann Guest Posts: n/a	okay, I must admit that I held out for what I thought would be a "special edition" dvd for the FOTR... Consider that filming/editing/researching all that the dvd covers took a long time and I'm sure New Line didn't want to wait for PJ and the crew to complete it before selling the movie...try to think of it as a bonus and not as an evil ploy to get more money from you. I work in post production and everything takes 3 times longer than expected. I can't imagine the clearance route on this one...whoa. Daunting. Do this...just sell your original dvd on ebay and/or trade it in for the upgrade. Also, as a side note...I don't particularily see these films as "commercial". "Maid in Manhattan" commercial, "Scream 3" commercial...a movie about beloved hobbits, wizards, elves, demons and talking trees??? Not so commercial. The reason why these movies are so popular is because there is such a fan base for the literature. Plus, all of us hard core freaks are going back and paying $10 each time to see the movie over and over again. And, of course there is word of mouth (i.e. getting our "Catch Me If You Can" friends out to see the move that we love so much). Finally, there is the writing...I have NEVER read anything so mezmorizing and exciting. Everything starts with a good script...JRRT wrote amazing books and PJ (& crew) have created epic and exciting movies...bravo!!!