Rohirrim Multiplication - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

the real findorfin · 01-01-2003, 02:26 PM

Now, surely there should ahve been more than wot...10... riders with Theoden during the journey to Helm's Deep. Not everyone would have been loyal to Eomer?And when Aragorn and Co. meet Eomer he has a largisgh group, but when they join the battle he has well, largish x 100.No way would all of the Riders leave their King, even if they did dispise Grima.And a final nitpick, why were there so many soldiers already at Helm's Deep? It seems like one of those places which is scantliy guarded until the need arises?Thoughts??

Manwe Sulimo · 01-01-2003, 02:35 PM

In the book, Helm's Deep was the headquarters of Erkenbrand, who was the First Marshall of the Riddermark (Westfold). He repaired the Deeping Wall and stationed his éoreds there.

doug*platypus · 01-02-2003, 04:48 AM

I think you're right to nitpick about the Riddermark and its armies, Findorfin. The whole thing was pretty sketchy. My main gripe is with Eomer and so many men riding off. <UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>where were they going??<LI>why were they all so keen to leave Edoras undefended??</UL>Cmon, man, just because you're an extra doesn't mean you have to leave your family to get eaten by wargs while you ride "north" to nowhere with no provisions!! The more PJ tries to alter the plot, the more he loses it. As Frodo said of Bilbo's made up story about the Ring, "I found the real story to be much more believable!"

Saurreg · 01-02-2003, 08:37 AM

Tolkien thought about the defence of Edora in his books. When he met Elfhelm, he bade him and his men to speed towards Edoras and defend the region from maurauders.

The Silver-shod Muse · 01-02-2003, 10:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> And when Aragorn and Co. meet Eomer he has a largisgh group, but when they join the battle he has well, largish x 100. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I noticed that too, but made a mental excuse for it so I could enjoy the movie. Maybe Eomer was just riding with a small vanguard when they came across Aragorn and Co. The rest of them were broken up into smaller groups that would be easier to maneuver over the rugged terrain.Good point about Eomer's ride north. What was he trying to accomplish?

Arwen Imladris · 01-02-2003, 01:03 PM

I thought that in the movie, Eomer was sort of banished from Rohan. He had to get away from Meduseld. Why he went North in particular I don't know.

Diamond18 · 01-02-2003, 02:59 PM

Surely he wasn't trying to storm Isengard, was he? And if he was riding north, wouldn't he have come across the huge army marching south from Isengard? Ha. I don't suppose this in particular bothers me...I mean, it doesn't detract from my enjoyment at seeing the Rohirrim ride down to meet the orcs at Helm's Deep. But, it does seem that the scriptwriting trio needed to ask someone to proof-read this for them, and didn't.

the real findorfin · 01-02-2003, 06:07 PM

Another point.Why did the Uruk-Hai give up as soon as Eomer turned up (wer didnt even see them die!) The numbers weren't that badly against them, they were probably about two to one in their favour still!!

the mortal elf · 01-02-2003, 08:03 PM

Well, the numbers thing with the Rohirrim was badly done, but I allow it because I have decided that Eomer only had a few riders that were willing to go with him and desert everything when he met the three trackers. Maybe he was going North to help Erkenbrand (who I think was supposed to be holding up against Uruk-Hai at the River Isen?). Then when he shows up at Helm's Deep with anywhere from 100 to 2000 or so men, it's because they were all with Erkenbrand.The only excuse for the Uruks is that they were taken by surprise? Maybe? Oh, I give up.

doug*platypus · 01-03-2003, 07:00 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> But, it does seem that the scriptwriting trio needed to ask someone to proof-read this for them, and didn't. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Words to live by, Diamond. So simple, so true. Maybe the enormous workload they had to cope with took its toll. But you'd think that between three people you'd be able to spot such obvious flaws in the plot. It seems to have been very simply done, like "let's send Eomer north" without saying "Eomer is going to such and such place for this particular reason". One of the great things about the LOTR book is that nothing happens without a reason or background information. The movies stand up very poorly in this respect.

eleanor_niphredil · 01-03-2003, 03:21 PM

I have to say I have never noticed that, but maybe thats just me being dimwitted again. One thing I did notice though. eomer says that with him where those men loyal to the king. Now, why would Theoden, rather that sending for Eomer, trust his life and those of his people to men that where not loyal to him, but loyal instead to Grima, or Sauroman?

dunedain_aragorn · 01-04-2003, 10:11 AM

in the book, it says there were many many parties of loyal men. thats why it took so long for gandalf to gather them all.

01-01-2003, 02:26 PM	#1
the real findorfin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 514	Rohirrim Multiplication Now, surely there should ahve been more than wot...10... riders with Theoden during the journey to Helm's Deep. Not everyone would have been loyal to Eomer?<P>And when Aragorn and Co. meet Eomer he has a largisgh group, but when they join the battle he has well, largish x 100.<P>No way would all of the Riders leave their King, even if they did dispise Grima.<P>And a final nitpick, why were there so many soldiers already at Helm's Deep? It seems like one of those places which is scantliy guarded until the need arises?<P>Thoughts?? __________________ Legends of Middle Earth

01-01-2003, 02:35 PM	#2
Manwe Sulimo Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Taurelilómëa-tumbalemorna Tumbaletaurëa Lómëanor Posts: 553	In the book, Helm's Deep was the headquarters of Erkenbrand, who was the First Marshall of the Riddermark (Westfold). He repaired the Deeping Wall and stationed his <I>éoreds</I> there. __________________ "Monkeys learn sign language so they can tell the dolphins they love them."

01-02-2003, 04:48 AM	#3
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	I think you're right to nitpick about the Riddermark and its armies, Findorfin. The whole thing was pretty sketchy. My main gripe is with Eomer and so many men riding off.<BR><UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>where were they going??<LI>why were they all so keen to leave Edoras undefended??</UL>Cmon, man, just because you're an extra doesn't mean you have to leave your family to get eaten by wargs while you ride "north" to nowhere with no provisions!! The more PJ tries to alter the plot, the more he loses it. As Frodo said of Bilbo's made up story about the Ring, "I found the real story to be much more believable!" __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

01-02-2003, 08:37 AM	#4
Saurreg Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: In self imposed exile... Posts: 465	Tolkien thought about the defence of Edora in his books. When he met Elfhelm, he bade him and his men to speed towards Edoras and defend the region from maurauders. __________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. " ~Voltaire

01-02-2003, 10:21 AM	#5
The Silver-shod Muse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX Posts: 388	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> And when Aragorn and Co. meet Eomer he has a largisgh group, but when they join the battle he has well, largish x 100. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I noticed that too, but made a mental excuse for it so I could enjoy the movie. Maybe Eomer was just riding with a small vanguard when they came across Aragorn and Co. The rest of them were broken up into smaller groups that would be easier to maneuver over the rugged terrain.<P>Good point about Eomer's ride north. What was he trying to accomplish? __________________ "'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis

01-02-2003, 01:03 PM	#6
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	I thought that in the movie, Eomer was sort of banished from Rohan. He had to get away from Meduseld. Why he went North in particular I don't know. __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

01-02-2003, 02:59 PM	#7
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	Surely he wasn't trying to storm Isengard, was he? And if he was riding north, wouldn't he have come across the huge army marching south from Isengard? Ha. I don't suppose this in particular bothers me...I mean, it doesn't detract from my enjoyment at seeing the Rohirrim ride down to meet the orcs at Helm's Deep. But, it does seem that the scriptwriting trio needed to ask someone to proof-read this for them, and didn't. __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

01-02-2003, 06:07 PM	#8
the real findorfin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 514	Another point.<P>Why did the Uruk-Hai give up as soon as Eomer turned up (wer didnt even see them die!) The numbers weren't that badly against them, they were probably about two to one in their favour still!! __________________ Legends of Middle Earth

01-02-2003, 08:03 PM	#9
the mortal elf Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away... Posts: 201	Well, the numbers thing with the Rohirrim was badly done, but I allow it because I have decided that Eomer only had a few riders that were willing to go with him and desert everything when he met the three trackers. Maybe he was going North to help Erkenbrand (who I think was supposed to be holding up against Uruk-Hai at the River Isen?). Then when he shows up at Helm's Deep with anywhere from 100 to 2000 or so men, it's because they were all with Erkenbrand.<P>The only excuse for the Uruks is that they were taken by surprise? Maybe? Oh, I give up. __________________ My imaginary friend says you have problems.

01-03-2003, 07:00 AM	#10
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> But, it does seem that the scriptwriting trio needed to ask someone to proof-read this for them, and didn't. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Words to live by, Diamond. So simple, so true. Maybe the enormous workload they had to cope with took its toll. But you'd think that between three people you'd be able to spot such obvious flaws in the plot. It seems to have been very simply done, like "let's send Eomer north" without saying "Eomer is going to such and such place for this particular reason". One of the great things about the LOTR book is that nothing happens without a reason or background information. The movies stand up very poorly in this respect. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

01-03-2003, 03:21 PM	#11
eleanor_niphredil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: england Posts: 805	I have to say I have never noticed that, but maybe thats just me being dimwitted again. <P><BR>One thing I did notice though. eomer says that with him where those men loyal to the king. Now, why would Theoden, rather that sending for Eomer, trust his life and those of his people to men that where not loyal to him, but loyal instead to Grima, or Sauroman? __________________ Here I am, brain the size of a planet, and they ask me to spend my time on this forum. And by the way, for any of you turning into a penguin, stop it. ~* I am Pippin took in the Female Fellowship*~

01-04-2003, 10:11 AM	#12
dunedain_aragorn Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: a Mcdonald's Happy Meal Posts: 47	in the book, it says there were many many parties of loyal men. thats why it took so long for gandalf to gather them all. __________________ "I must take leave, I have not slept since Dunnharrow, and I am weary."said Aragorn. Merry seized his hand and kissed it."I am frightfully sorry, we have been a nuisance to you since Bree." Aragorn laughed and left them. "Was there ever any like him?" said Pippin,"Except for Gandalf of course. I believe they must be related."