Fat Sam in TTT - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Deathwail · 12-30-2002, 05:42 AM

Anyone else get the feeling that Sam after a few months of running across ME should of lost a bit more of that lump around his middle? Pretty hard to stay fat and soft when your walking and or running every waking hour and eating only what the land has to offer.

doug*platypus · 12-30-2002, 06:43 AM

YES!!! Flabsolutely! Book Sam is a lean, mean gardening machine. Who's the fat retard hanging around Frodo in the movies?There's a lot of movieSam fans out there, but I'd have to say that Sean Astin was THE casting blunder of the movies. I can't remember him from any other movies, I'm just basing this on the way he plays (reads: destroys) Sam. Although the "Po-ta-toes" line was really well done.

Deathwail · 12-30-2002, 06:57 AM

I didnt mind the young man that played Sam though he did seem a tad to clean all the time for a Gardner.Just struck me odd here is Gollum calling Sam the fat Hobbit after Sam has been doing cross country running for 2 months or so bare foot some of it in snow eating just enough to get by.

Nenya · 12-30-2002, 03:22 PM

Yes, now that I think about it, that does seem a bit odd. doug*platypus: why exactly did you hate Sean Astin's Sam so much?!

the real nazgul · 12-30-2002, 03:33 PM

i bet golllum is fattening sam up so he can eat him. frodo will have no friends, be driven into insanity, and give the ring to gollum. 1 tasty meal AND the ring-2 in 1!

Eruwen · 12-30-2002, 03:33 PM

I agree Deathwail. Sam does seem to be really fat. And you would think after all that running after Mr.Frodo he would have lost a bunch of weight. Actually, according to the movie and some pics I have here, it seems to me that Sam has gained weight throughout the journey. Very strange... <---The Beginning of FOTR in Hobbiton <---The Two TowersOh, and Doug, Sean Astin has been in many movies. Only three have I seen though. They are The Goonies, Rudy, and Encino Man. (All very good movies.)

Elven Mistress · 12-30-2002, 03:44 PM

Hehehehe!Yeah, i noticed that too, but what can they do about it? Hire another person that happens to LOOK like Sean Astin? There's not really much they can do about an actor's appearance...

Nurumaiel · 12-30-2002, 03:54 PM

Actually, it's not Sean's fault that Sam is so fat. Blame Pete. He wanted Sean to gain some weight so he could really 'look the part' (though I never imagined Sam looking fat). He's (Sean) not naturally fat (those who have seen other movies with him will know it). He happens to be my favorite actor in the world, so sometimes I get upset when people say unfair things about him.If you watch the commentary with Pete, Fran, and Philippa, at the part where Sam and Frodo talk at Rivendell about getting the Ring to Rivendell, going home, etc., Pete says that in that shot you'll notice Sean is a lot thinner. As soon as filming was over he ran home and lost as much weight as possible, so when he was brought back to do new scenes he was a lot thinner.In my opinion, Sean is the best actor possible for Sam, and, as a fact, he's not naturally fat.~Nurumaiel

Arathiriel · 12-30-2002, 03:54 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>There's a lot of movieSam fans out there, but I'd have to say that Sean Astin was THE casting blunder of the movies. I can't remember him from any other movies, I'm just basing this on the way he plays (reads: destroys) Sam. Although the "Po-ta-toes" line was really well done. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry can't agree with you there as I can't imagine anyone else playing Sam!Sean Astin does as wonderful job as Samwise Gamgee, IMNSHO! He embodies all the qualities I came to love Sam for when I read the books...And yes, I am a fan of the books too, having read those before I saw FOTR...

Deathwail · 12-30-2002, 05:24 PM

Ya i think it was more a Peter Jackson over sight, Peter being of round belly and butt himself i think he just didnt understand there is no way your gonna live in the wild running for your life day to day and keep a large belly.Heck even the Cave Troll was in better shape then Sam

12-30-2002, 05:36 PM

thats not very nice!

Diamond18 · 12-30-2002, 05:55 PM

Even though Sean Astin had to gain about 30 pounds to look "fat" he is not nearly half as fat as he could be. I mean, please! A pudgy face? Sam could gain at least 100 more pounds to match some people I've seen.I pictured Sam as somewhat fat. He's "sturdy" (not lean) which is just a nice way of saying "fat". In reality, all hobbits are supposed to be fat. He did lose weight on the Quest, but that would be sort of hard to depict.[ December 30, 2002: Message edited by: Diamond18 ][ December 30, 2002: Message edited by: Diamond18 ]

Nurumaiel · 12-30-2002, 07:21 PM

I don't think there's any way they could have made Sam lose weight throughout the movie, seeing as they'd be one day on FOTR and the next on TTT and so on. It would have been weird if they had tried to make him lose weight to look right as the journey goes on because I don't think it'd work...I agree, Sean is the absolute best to play Sam. He was one of the best choices the casting directors made (though all the actors were awesome)!~Nurumaiel

My Cat Sasha · 12-30-2002, 07:49 PM

I think Sean is perfect for Sam! Gaining the weight probably does make him look more hobbit-like. I don't see anything wrong with Sam being fat (though I don't really think he looks fat at all. He's not much bigger than Frodo.) Aren't hobbits supposed to be a little plump? Besides, how else is Gollum supposed to refer to Sam? It provides a little comic relief.

greyhavener · 12-31-2002, 12:29 AM

I guess I always thought four-foot nothing humanoids who eat seven meals a day and drink alot of beer would look pretty much like movie Sam. I actually thought the other hobbits looked a little thin and young.I thought Sean did a great job as Sam. It was a completely sold out performance in my book.

Deathwail · 12-31-2002, 12:39 AM

But thats just my point there is no Beer and they get 3 meals of food that is far from the fatty normal hobbit food like cakes and muffins not 7 or whatever plus meal that Sam was raised on and by the time TTT is set in the film Sam as been walking and running more then the rest of his life combined so i just dont see how on earth it would make sence for him to be as fat or fatter then at the start of FOTR.

Deathwail · 12-31-2002, 12:41 AM

And again i am not putting down the Actor that played him and i am not saying that at the start of the first film Sam should not of been heavy just that its silly to think that running clear across ME fighting and such that he would not get in shape or least lose that hobbit baby fat.

Kalimac · 12-31-2002, 02:47 AM

As Obelix might have said, he's not fat, just well-built, that's all . Sean Astin looks about the same to me in the first and second movie sizewise, though I wasn't looking very closely - but one thing to remember is that when you're traveling in an area like that you're going to wear more layers than you would at home; Sam could be wearing most of the clothes he possesses just to keep warm - Emyn Muil does not look like it would be particularly warm at night (and it's hard to see Frodo standing there with his top shirt button undone and apparently nothing underneath except the Ring without thinking "Put on a sweater already! You look ill!") And am I remembering things completely wrong, or does Gollum refer to Sam as fat in the book? I do remember Gollum thinking of him as the "Slow, stupid hobbit" which to me always suggested a bit of weight.

doug*platypus · 12-31-2002, 03:15 AM

Oh, yeah! I remember him, now. Encino Man was called California Man in NZ, cos noone would know where Encino was, but yeah I loved that movie. As I recall he was none too slender in that movie, but that's really not what I was talking about.I couldn't care less how well Sean Astin played characters in other movies, because I wasn't interested in debating his talent. This is the Barrow-Downs, not the Sean Astin Fanclub Page. My problem is with the depiction of Sam in the movies, which is a result of both Sean Astin as actor and Peter Jackson as director. Also, less directly, Phillipa Boyens and Fran Walsh for their over-simplified script. A great man said, "you can't keep all of the people happy all of the time." While movieSam was obviously perfectly accurate to a lot of people, I thought he suffered the most of any character in the transition to film. Yes, even more than *poor Faramir, sigh* because Sam is one of the most important characters in the book (if not THE most). In the book he is thoughtful, insightful, dreamy and wistful in his thoughts of Elves and Dragons, and possessed of a wealth of commonsense as well as cheerfulness. In the book, he and Frodo have a rope because Sam thought to ask for one from Haldir for his own use - not simply because Galadriel gave it to him. You Sam fans should be up in arms about her hogging the credit! He is the one who remembers the Phial, time will tell if that is kept in ROTK. While he might seem fairly rustic, he doesn't talk like an inbred halfwit, and while he doesn't trust or like Gollum, he is never as cruel as movieSam was. I know Gollum's only CG, but I really hate it when Sam hurls him to the ground by the rope around his neck. It's like watching someone kick a dog. And why was the rope around Gollum's neck, anyway?I think that the movie's portrayal of Sam was over-simplified and unfair. Sean Astin is definitely one of the people to blame for this. And yes, he was too fat! It's unrealistic - why were Merry and Pippin so much leaner, when unlike Sam they apparently never did a hard day's work in their lives?

mark12_30 · 12-31-2002, 10:53 AM

"They (hobbits) are inclined to be fat in the stomach." --From The Hobbit, page two.Tolkien states in his letters (someplace, don't have them on me) that Sam is the quintessential, normal, hobbit-next-door; a hobbit's hobbit, as it were. So he SHOULD exhibit some normal hobbit-ness. And a slight portliness is considered normal for a mature male hobbit. Although I do tend to agree with you that by The Crossroads, he would have been tightening up his suspenders a bit. Frodo was quite a bit leaner by the time he got to Rivendell.

Vardadurwen · 12-31-2002, 11:02 AM

Wow, there are some extremely embittered remarks in this thread! I didn't realize that the weight of Sam would be such a huge deal. But hey, hobbits have DNA too so maybe Sam just has a "fat gene" so-to-speak. There are people who are just larger than others despite exercising and everything...maybe that's how Sam is meant to be. Actually I really doubt that, I'm just trying to lighten things up here.Or maybe he was kept a little plumper just to provide some contrast to Frodo. Personally I thought that Sean Astin was a good actor for the role of Sam. But you're right you can't please everybody...but you know, I really don't think it was very approriate to just call Sam "the fat retard". There are a lot of people who might take offence to something like that...you've got to admit, it was really harsh!

My Cat Sasha · 12-31-2002, 11:27 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> While he might seem fairly rustic, he doesn't talk like an inbred halfwit, and while he doesn't trust or like Gollum, he is never as cruel as movieSam was. I know Gollum's only CG, but I really hate it when Sam hurls him to the ground by the rope around his neck. It's like watching someone kick a dog. And why was the rope around Gollum's neck, anyway? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The rope was around Gollum's neck because they couldn't trust him. It was tied very loosly. You could tell that Gollum (the character, not the actor) was only acting as if he were in terrible pain, when he really had a lot of slack. Sam probably hurls him to the ground to shut him up and make him go faster. His act was slowing them down and they needed to get to Mordor quickly. Sam was right about "Every orc in Mordor is going to hear this racket!" I think it was a very accurate portrayal of Sam's loathe of Gollum. The movies inaccurate portrayal of Gollum made Sam look cruel. Gollum was perfect, but they made Smeagol look nice! Smeagol was evil, just not as evil as Gollum and didn't want to kill Frodo because Frodo pitied him. Smeagol was already a murderer; he killed Deagol! To quote Sam again, "He just wants the Ring, Mr. Frodo. That's all he cares about." Sam didn't want a companion who didn't care about the well-being of his master. Gollum wanted to kill Frodo. And if you've read the books, he almost does!

Arwen Imladris · 12-31-2002, 02:22 PM

Yes, I agree, he does seem to gain weight. I understand that because the film was filmed out of sequence it would be hard to make him skinier in the end but in TTT he certainly shouldn't be gaining weight. This is no dis to Sean Aston, As I understand it they made him gain weight to be Sam. I don't think that Sean Aston is usually that.. big. I think that he was the perfect Sam. His face is perfect for the Sam that I pictured in the books. My only real thing is that his hair should be more brown, not blond.

doug*platypus · 01-01-2003, 07:10 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Sam probably hurls him to the ground to shut him up and make him go faster. ... Smeagol was already a murderer; he killed Deagol! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>In my opinion, neither of these are very convincing reasons for having a rope around Smeagol's neck. Last time I checked, two wrongs still didn't make a right. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> And if you've read the books <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ...then you'd probably know that tying the rope around Smeagol's ankle was more than enough to control him, especially since "nassty Elves twisted it" and the very touch was burning to him. But maybe "The New, Unimproved Cruel Sam" should be another thread.As for Deathwail's initial point, I'd have to be honest and say that I didn't notice a change between FOTR and TTT, maybe cos I didn't look closely enough. It would definitely make sense for the Fellowship, especially Sam and Frodo, to have lost weight throughout their travels. But bear in mind that all three movies were made more or less at the same time, with a fair amount of switching between movies - a Continuity Checker's worst nightmare!By the way, Mark, if <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> "They (hobbits) are inclined to be fat in the stomach." --From The Hobbit, page two. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What about Merry, Pippin, Frodo and Bilbo?

My Cat Sasha · 01-01-2003, 12:17 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sam probably hurls him to the ground to shut him up and make him go faster. ... Smeagol was already a murderer; he killed Deagol! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------In my opinion, neither of these are very convincing reasons for having a rope around Smeagol's neck. Last time I checked, two wrongs still didn't make a right. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Then is this a more convincing reason? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The rope was around Gollum's neck because they couldn't trust him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> ...then you'd probably know that tying the rope around Smeagol's ankle was more than enough to control him, especially since "nassty Elves twisted it" and the very touch was burning to him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry, but I haven't read the books for a while and didn't remember that at the time. But it wasn't explained very well in the movie. Still, how else were they supposed to control him?I'm not sure, but doesn't Galadriel give Sam the rope only in the extended version? I might be getting the two mixed up, so correct me if I'm wrong. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> What about Merry, Pippin, Frodo and Bilbo? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I thought Bilbo was a little bit fat. Not as big as Sam, but he didn't appear to be as tall as Sam either.

Nibinlondwen · 01-01-2003, 12:25 PM

im so with you, but they didnt even care about merry and pippin beeing found and taken with aragorn, legolas and gimli. so i doubt they care too much about things like sam beeing fat, even if i think they should.

Diamond18 · 01-01-2003, 07:35 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> they didnt even care about merry and pippin beeing found and taken with aragorn, legolas and gimli. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But Merry and Pippin weren't found and taken by Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli in the book. They stayed with Treebeard until after Helm's Deep. Even though Merry and Pippin did not see Gandalf in the forest, he knew they were with Treebeard, and assured the Three Hunters that the Hobbits were safe and no more of their concern for the time being.But back on topic. Dominic Monaghan did wear a fat suit for filming. I always pictured Pippin as thinner than the others, myself, just 'cause he's the youngest and "wildest". And yes, Elijah Wood doesn't have any of the same physical characteristics as Frodo—but that has nothing to do with Sam.

Pookabunny · 01-01-2003, 09:12 PM

So what's wrong with being a tubby fat arss? Fat people are harder to kidnap!I'm cool with pudgy Sam. It's just another thing to represent the duality of the situation they're all in - Good versus evil, elves vs. orc, Ents vs. Trolls, etc. To balance out lil Frodo (who is supposed to be kinda gentlemanly and 'educated'), the perfect compliment would be a round Sam (who is 'simple' and oftentimes fat people are labeled as dumb).I LOVE how Sean Astin played him, and I did envision Sam as being chunky.

doug*platypus · 01-02-2003, 04:42 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Dominic Monaghan did wear a fat suit for filming. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah, I heard someone else say that, as well. Not that I don't believe you guys, but if you have a link to a quote or an article or something, I'd love to check it out. Seems to have been a PJ decision to have Fat Sam. At least we all agree that he's fat, for good or ill. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I'm not sure, but doesn't Galadriel give Sam the rope only in the extended version? I might be getting the two mixed up, so correct me if I'm wrong. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Quite right, the only one of Galadriel's gifts we see in the movie cut is Frodo's Phial. But the Gollum quote "it burns" is kept, although it's meaning isn't alluded to at all. I think Tolkien was implying a different hurt to just ropeburn. Once again, PJ mimics a line without getting to the heart of it. I have to admit that my vision of a lean and fit Sam doesn't come from any quotable source. But Tolkien seems to have thought chubbiness a prerequisite for disaster, at least on this kind of mission... quest... thing. Look at Bombur in The Hobbit, poor guy. Fatty Bolger's character remains behind. Frodo himself has to lose a few more pounds before he looks like himself again and is ready for adventure - Pippin even mocks his weight. Pippin might have done the same if bookSam was fat, which I don't believe he was.

Diamond18 · 01-02-2003, 01:38 PM

<A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=001356" TARGET=_blank>Here</A> is a thread in which Morquesse gave a link to an interview with Dominic Monaghan. The thing about the fat suit is in there somewhere. I think I also read about it on a trivia page for FotR <A HREF="http://us.imdb.com/Trivia?0120737" TARGET=_blank>here.</A>[ January 02, 2003: Message edited by: Diamond18 ]

01-02-2003, 01:50 PM

Maybe the reason Gollum called Sam fat was because he was so used to seeing himself all the time. Gollum isn't exactly the heaviest creature in Middle Earth. He probably got used to seeing his small waistline, and assumed that anything heavier would be considered fat. This is only my opinion, but, if I may say so, I think it is a pretty good theory.

ArwenBaggins · 01-02-2003, 01:51 PM

I think Sean Astin is a very good Samwise Gamgee. I have seen him in other movies (The Goonies, Encino Man, Rudy) and I like his acting style very much. When I read the Fellowship of the Ring, I imagined Sam a little 'chunky'. I think Sean did a very good job. I can not see anyone else playing that part! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Fat people are harder to kidnap! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Very funny, and true. Heavier people also hurt alot more when they plop on top of you, like in Poor Gollum's case.(did I just say *poor* Gollum? )[ January 02, 2003: Message edited by: ArwenBaggins ]

Aylwen Dreamsong · 01-02-2003, 01:51 PM

I'm fine with a chunky Sam. Sean's isn't exactly the way I pictured Sam before the movie's came out, but I can't imagine too many other people as good for the part. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Last time I checked, two wrongs still didn't make a right. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If two wrongs don't make a right, try three. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> What about Merry, Pippin, Frodo and Bilbo? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually, somewhere in the FotR book, it says something about Frodo looking in the mirror, and how he had gained weight in his years, and that he expected to lose some weight on the journey (Couldn't find the exact quote, I'm too tired ).Aylwen

12-30-2002, 05:42 AM	#1
Deathwail Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Door of Night Posts: 99	Fat Sam in TTT Anyone else get the feeling that Sam after a few months of running across ME should of lost a bit more of that lump around his middle? Pretty hard to stay fat and soft when your walking and or running every waking hour and eating only what the land has to offer. __________________ He who arises in Might.

12-30-2002, 06:43 AM	#2
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	<B>YES!!!</B> Flabsolutely! Book Sam is a lean, mean gardening machine. Who's the fat retard hanging around Frodo in the movies?<P>There's a lot of movieSam fans out there, but I'd have to say that Sean Astin was <B>THE</B> casting blunder of the movies. I can't remember him from any other movies, I'm just basing this on the way he plays (reads: destroys) Sam. Although the "Po-ta-toes" line was really well done. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

12-30-2002, 06:57 AM	#3
Deathwail Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Door of Night Posts: 99	I didnt mind the young man that played Sam though he did seem a tad to clean all the time for a Gardner.Just struck me odd here is Gollum calling Sam the fat Hobbit after Sam has been doing cross country running for 2 months or so bare foot some of it in snow eating just enough to get by. __________________ He who arises in Might.

12-30-2002, 03:22 PM	#4
Nenya Wight Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the hand of Lady Galadriel Posts: 127	Yes, now that I think about it, that does seem a bit odd.<BR>doug*platypus: why exactly did you hate Sean Astin's Sam so much?!

12-30-2002, 03:33 PM	#5
the real nazgul Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Nazguls foster home Posts: 36	i bet golllum is fattening sam up so he can eat him. frodo will have no friends, be driven into insanity, and give the ring to gollum. 1 tasty meal AND the ring-2 in 1! __________________ Its not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog

12-30-2002, 03:33 PM	#6
Eruwen Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 892	I agree Deathwail. Sam does seem to be really fat. And you would think after all that running after Mr.Frodo he would have lost a bunch of weight. Actually, according to the movie and some pics I have here, it seems to me that Sam has gained weight throughout the journey. Very strange...<P> <---The Beginning of FOTR in Hobbiton<P> <---The Two Towers<P>Oh, and Doug, Sean Astin has been in many movies. Only three have I seen though. They are The Goonies, Rudy, and Encino Man. (All very good movies.)

12-30-2002, 03:44 PM	#7
Elven Mistress Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Lothlorien Posts: 135	Hehehehe!<P>Yeah, i noticed that too, but what can they do about it? Hire another person that happens to LOOK like Sean Astin? There's not really much they can do about an actor's appearance... __________________ And i know/ It's only in my mind/ That i'm talking to myself/ And not to him!

12-30-2002, 03:54 PM	#8
Nurumaiel Vice of Twilight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: on a mountain Posts: 1,121	Actually, it's not Sean's fault that Sam is so fat. Blame Pete. He wanted Sean to gain some weight so he could really 'look the part' (though I never imagined Sam looking fat). He's (Sean) not naturally fat (those who have seen other movies with him will know it). <P>He happens to be my favorite actor in the world, so sometimes I get upset when people say unfair things about him.<P>If you watch the commentary with Pete, Fran, and Philippa, at the part where Sam and Frodo talk at Rivendell about getting the Ring to Rivendell, going home, etc., Pete says that in that shot you'll notice Sean is a lot thinner. As soon as filming was over he ran home and lost as much weight as possible, so when he was brought back to do new scenes he was a lot thinner.<P>In my opinion, Sean is the best actor possible for Sam, and, as a fact, he's not naturally fat.<P>~Nurumaiel __________________ In the fury of the moment I can see the Master's hand in every leaf that trembles, in every grain of sand.

12-30-2002, 03:54 PM	#9
Arathiriel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Blessed Realm Posts: 284	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>There's a lot of movieSam fans out there, but I'd have to say that Sean Astin was THE casting blunder of the movies. I can't remember him from any other movies, I'm just basing this on the way he plays (reads: destroys) Sam. Although the "Po-ta-toes" line was really well done. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Sorry can't agree with you there as I can't imagine anyone else playing Sam!<P>Sean Astin does as <B>wonderful</B> job as Samwise Gamgee, IMNSHO! He embodies all the qualities I came to love Sam for when I read the books...<P>And yes, I am a fan of the books too, having read those before I saw FOTR... __________________ 'I love him. He's like that, and sometimes it shines through, somehow. But I love him, whether or no.' - Samwise Gamgee

12-30-2002, 05:24 PM	#10
Deathwail Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Door of Night Posts: 99	Ya i think it was more a Peter Jackson over sight, Peter being of round belly and butt himself i think he just didnt understand there is no way your gonna live in the wild running for your life day to day and keep a large belly.Heck even the Cave Troll was in better shape then Sam __________________ He who arises in Might.

12-30-2002, 05:36 PM	#11
FrodoLives Guest Posts: n/a	thats not very nice!

12-30-2002, 05:55 PM	#12
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	Even though Sean Astin had to gain about 30 pounds to look "fat" he is not nearly half as fat as he could be. I mean, please! A pudgy face? Sam could gain at least 100 more pounds to match some people I've seen.<P>I pictured Sam as somewhat fat. He's "sturdy" (<I>not</I> lean) which is just a nice way of saying "fat". In reality, all hobbits are supposed to be fat. He did lose weight on the Quest, but that would be sort of hard to depict.<P>[ December 30, 2002: Message edited by: Diamond18 ]<p>[ December 30, 2002: Message edited by: Diamond18 ] __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

12-30-2002, 07:21 PM	#13
Nurumaiel Vice of Twilight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: on a mountain Posts: 1,121	I don't think there's any way they could have made Sam lose weight throughout the movie, seeing as they'd be one day on FOTR and the next on TTT and so on. It would have been weird if they had tried to make him lose weight to look right as the journey goes on because I don't think it'd work...<P>I agree, Sean is the absolute best to play Sam. He was one of the best choices the casting directors made (though all the actors were awesome)!<P>~Nurumaiel __________________ In the fury of the moment I can see the Master's hand in every leaf that trembles, in every grain of sand.

12-30-2002, 07:49 PM	#14
My Cat Sasha Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Shire Posts: 46	I think Sean is perfect for Sam! Gaining the weight probably does make him look more hobbit-like. I don't see anything wrong with Sam being fat (though I don't really think he looks fat at all. He's not much bigger than Frodo.) Aren't hobbits supposed to be a little plump? Besides, how else is Gollum supposed to refer to Sam? It provides a little comic relief. __________________ Frodo: Go back, Sam! I'm going to Mordor alone. Sam: Of course you are, and I'm comming with you!

12-31-2002, 12:29 AM	#15
greyhavener Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: austin Posts: 169	I guess I always thought four-foot nothing humanoids who eat seven meals a day and drink alot of beer would look pretty much like movie Sam. I actually thought the other hobbits looked a little thin and young.<P>I thought Sean did a great job as Sam. It was a completely sold out performance in my book. __________________ Do justly, love mercy, walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8

12-31-2002, 12:39 AM	#16
Deathwail Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Door of Night Posts: 99	But thats just my point there is no Beer and they get 3 meals of food that is far from the fatty normal hobbit food like cakes and muffins not 7 or whatever plus meal that Sam was raised on and by the time TTT is set in the film Sam as been walking and running more then the rest of his life combined so i just dont see how on earth it would make sence for him to be as fat or fatter then at the start of FOTR. __________________ He who arises in Might.

12-31-2002, 12:41 AM	#17
Deathwail Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Door of Night Posts: 99	And again i am not putting down the Actor that played him and i am not saying that at the start of the first film Sam should not of been heavy just that its silly to think that running clear across ME fighting and such that he would not get in shape or least lose that hobbit baby fat. __________________ He who arises in Might.

12-31-2002, 02:47 AM	#18
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	As Obelix might have said, he's not fat, just well-built, that's all . Sean Astin looks about the same to me in the first and second movie sizewise, though I wasn't looking very closely - but one thing to remember is that when you're traveling in an area like that you're going to wear more layers than you would at home; Sam could be wearing most of the clothes he possesses just to keep warm - Emyn Muil does not look like it would be particularly warm at night (and it's hard to see Frodo standing there with his top shirt button undone and apparently nothing underneath except the Ring without thinking "Put on a sweater already! You look ill!") And am I remembering things completely wrong, or does Gollum refer to Sam as fat in the book? I do remember Gollum thinking of him as the "Slow, stupid hobbit" which to me always suggested a bit of weight. __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

12-31-2002, 03:15 AM	#19
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	Oh, yeah! I remember him, now. Encino Man was called California Man in NZ, cos noone would know where Encino was, but yeah I loved that movie. As I recall he was none too slender in that movie, but that's really not what I was talking about.<P>I couldn't care less how well Sean Astin played characters in other movies, because I wasn't interested in debating his talent. This is the Barrow-Downs, not the Sean Astin Fanclub Page. My problem is with the depiction of Sam in the movies, which is a result of both Sean Astin as actor and Peter Jackson as director. Also, less directly, Phillipa Boyens and Fran Walsh for their over-simplified script. <P>A great man said, "you can't keep all of the people happy all of the time." While movieSam was obviously perfectly accurate to a lot of people, I thought he suffered the most of any character in the transition to film. Yes, even more than poor Faramir, sigh because Sam is one of the most important characters in the book (if not THE most). In the book he is thoughtful, insightful, dreamy and wistful in his thoughts of Elves and Dragons, and possessed of a wealth of commonsense as well as cheerfulness. In the book, he and Frodo have a rope because Sam thought to ask for one from Haldir for his own use - not simply because Galadriel gave it to him. You Sam fans should be up in arms about her hogging the credit! He is the one who remembers the Phial, time will tell if that is kept in ROTK. While he might seem fairly rustic, he doesn't talk like an inbred halfwit, and while he doesn't trust or like Gollum, he is never as cruel as movieSam was. I know Gollum's only CG, but I really hate it when Sam hurls him to the ground by the rope around his neck. It's like watching someone kick a dog. And why was the rope around Gollum's neck, anyway?<P>I think that the movie's portrayal of Sam was over-simplified and unfair. Sean Astin is definitely one of the people to blame for this. And yes, he was too fat! It's unrealistic - why were Merry and Pippin so much leaner, when unlike Sam they apparently never did a hard day's work in their lives? __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

12-31-2002, 10:53 AM	#20
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	"They (hobbits) are inclined to be fat in the stomach." --From The Hobbit, page two.<P>Tolkien states in his letters (someplace, don't have them on me) that Sam is the quintessential, normal, hobbit-next-door; a hobbit's hobbit, as it were. So he SHOULD exhibit some normal hobbit-ness. And a slight portliness is considered normal for a mature male hobbit. <P>Although I do tend to agree with you that by The Crossroads, he would have been tightening up his suspenders a bit. <P>Frodo was quite a bit leaner by the time he got to Rivendell. __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

12-31-2002, 11:02 AM	#21
Vardadurwen Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 102	Wow, there are some extremely embittered remarks in this thread! I didn't realize that the weight of Sam would be such a huge deal. But hey, hobbits have DNA too so maybe Sam just has a "fat gene" so-to-speak. There are people who are just larger than others despite exercising and everything...maybe that's how Sam is meant to be. Actually I really doubt that, I'm just trying to lighten things up here.<P>Or maybe he was kept a little plumper just to provide some contrast to Frodo. <P>Personally I thought that Sean Astin was a good actor for the role of Sam. But you're right you can't please everybody...but you know, I really don't think it was very approriate to just call Sam "the fat retard". There are a lot of people who might take offence to something like that...you've got to admit, it was really harsh! __________________ 'In this phial,' she said, 'is caught the light of Earendil's star....May it be a light to you in dark places, when all other lights go out...' - Galadriel 'Now there's an eye-opener and no mistake!' - Samwise Gamgee

12-31-2002, 11:27 AM	#22
My Cat Sasha Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Shire Posts: 46	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> While he might seem fairly rustic, he doesn't talk like an inbred halfwit, and while he doesn't trust or like Gollum, he is never as cruel as movieSam was. I know Gollum's only CG, but I really hate it when Sam hurls him to the ground by the rope around his neck. It's like watching someone kick a dog. And why was the rope around Gollum's neck, anyway? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The rope was around Gollum's neck because they couldn't trust him. It was tied very loosly. You could tell that Gollum (the character, not the actor) was only acting as if he were in terrible pain, when he really had a lot of slack. Sam probably hurls him to the ground to shut him up and make him go faster. His act was slowing them down and they needed to get to Mordor quickly. Sam was right about "Every orc in Mordor is going to hear this racket!" I think it was a very accurate portrayal of Sam's loathe of Gollum. The movies inaccurate portrayal of Gollum made Sam look cruel. Gollum was perfect, but they made Smeagol look nice! Smeagol was evil, just not as evil as Gollum and didn't want to kill Frodo because Frodo pitied him. Smeagol was already a murderer; he killed Deagol! To quote Sam again, "He just wants the Ring, Mr. Frodo. That's all he cares about." Sam didn't want a companion who didn't care about the well-being of his master. Gollum wanted to kill Frodo. And if you've read the books, he almost does! __________________ Frodo: Go back, Sam! I'm going to Mordor alone. Sam: Of course you are, and I'm comming with you!

12-31-2002, 02:22 PM	#23
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	Yes, I agree, he does seem to gain weight. I understand that because the film was filmed out of sequence it would be hard to make him skinier in the end but in TTT he certainly shouldn't be gaining weight. This is no dis to Sean Aston, As I understand it they made him gain weight to be Sam. I don't think that Sean Aston is usually that.. big. I think that he was the perfect Sam. His face is perfect for the Sam that I pictured in the books. My only real thing is that his hair should be more brown, not blond. __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

01-01-2003, 07:10 AM	#24
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Sam probably hurls him to the ground to shut him up and make him go faster. ... Smeagol was already a murderer; he killed Deagol! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>In my opinion, neither of these are very convincing reasons for having a rope around Smeagol's neck. Last time I checked, two wrongs still didn't make a right.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> And if you've read the books <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>...then you'd probably know that tying the rope around Smeagol's ankle was more than enough to control him, especially since "nassty Elves twisted it" and the very touch was burning to him. But maybe "The New, Unimproved Cruel Sam" should be another thread.<P>As for Deathwail's initial point, I'd have to be honest and say that I didn't notice a change between FOTR and TTT, maybe cos I didn't look closely enough. It would definitely make sense for the Fellowship, especially Sam and Frodo, to have lost weight throughout their travels. But bear in mind that all three movies were made more or less at the same time, with a fair amount of switching between movies - a Continuity Checker's worst nightmare!<P>By the way, Mark, if<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> "They (hobbits) are inclined to be fat in the stomach." --From The Hobbit, page two.<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What about Merry, Pippin, Frodo and Bilbo? __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

01-01-2003, 12:17 PM	#25
My Cat Sasha Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Shire Posts: 46	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> <BR>quote:<BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR> Sam probably hurls him to the ground to shut him up and make him go faster. ... Smeagol was already a murderer; he killed Deagol! <BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<P>In my opinion, neither of these are very convincing reasons for having a rope around Smeagol's neck. Last time I checked, two wrongs still didn't make a right.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Then is this a more convincing reason?<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The rope was around Gollum's neck because they couldn't trust him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> ...then you'd probably know that tying the rope around Smeagol's ankle was more than enough to control him, especially since "nassty Elves twisted it" and the very touch was burning to him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Sorry, but I haven't read the books for a while and didn't remember that at the time. But it wasn't explained very well in the movie. Still, how else were they supposed to control him?<P>I'm not sure, but doesn't Galadriel give Sam the rope only in the extended version? I might be getting the two mixed up, so correct me if I'm wrong. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> What about Merry, Pippin, Frodo and Bilbo? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I thought Bilbo was a little bit fat. Not as big as Sam, but he didn't appear to be as tall as Sam either. __________________ Frodo: Go back, Sam! I'm going to Mordor alone. Sam: Of course you are, and I'm comming with you!

01-01-2003, 12:25 PM	#26
Nibinlondwen Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 25	im so with you, but they didnt even care about merry and pippin beeing found and taken with aragorn, legolas and gimli. so i doubt they care too much about things like sam beeing fat, even if i think they should. __________________ Aa' menle nauva calen ar' ta hwesta e'ale' quenle mellomin

01-01-2003, 07:35 PM	#27
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> they didnt even care about merry and pippin beeing found and taken with aragorn, legolas and gimli. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>But Merry and Pippin weren't found and taken by Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli in the book. They stayed with Treebeard until after Helm's Deep. Even though Merry and Pippin did not see Gandalf in the forest, he knew they were with Treebeard, and assured the Three Hunters that the Hobbits were safe and no more of their concern for the time being.<P>But back on topic. Dominic Monaghan did wear a fat suit for filming. I always pictured Pippin as thinner than the others, myself, just 'cause he's the youngest and "wildest". And yes, Elijah Wood doesn't have any of the same physical characteristics as Frodo—but that has nothing to do with Sam. __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

01-01-2003, 09:12 PM	#28
Pookabunny Wight Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The only place that matters! Posts: 181	So what's wrong with being a tubby fat arss? Fat people are harder to kidnap!<P>I'm cool with pudgy Sam. It's just another thing to represent the duality of the situation they're all in - Good versus evil, elves vs. orc, Ents vs. Trolls, etc. To balance out lil Frodo (who is supposed to be kinda gentlemanly and 'educated'), the perfect compliment would be a round Sam (who is 'simple' and oftentimes fat people are labeled as dumb).<P>I LOVE how Sean Astin played him, and I did envision Sam as being chunky. __________________ "I love you more than I did the week before, I discovered alcohol" - Bare Naked Ladies

01-02-2003, 04:42 AM	#29
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Dominic Monaghan did wear a fat suit for filming. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yeah, I heard someone else say that, as well. Not that I don't believe you guys, but if you have a link to a quote or an article or something, I'd love to check it out. Seems to have been a PJ decision to have Fat Sam. At least we all agree that he's fat, for good or ill. <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I'm not sure, but doesn't Galadriel give Sam the rope only in the extended version? I might be getting the two mixed up, so correct me if I'm wrong. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Quite right, the only one of Galadriel's gifts we see in the movie cut is Frodo's Phial. But the Gollum quote "it burns" is kept, although it's meaning isn't alluded to at all. I think Tolkien was implying a different hurt to just ropeburn. Once again, PJ mimics a line without getting to the heart of it. <P>I have to admit that my vision of a lean and fit Sam doesn't come from any quotable source. But Tolkien seems to have thought chubbiness a prerequisite for disaster, at least on this kind of mission... quest... thing. Look at Bombur in The Hobbit, poor guy. Fatty Bolger's character remains behind. Frodo himself has to lose a few more pounds before he looks like himself again and is ready for adventure - Pippin even mocks his weight. Pippin might have done the same if bookSam was fat, which I don't believe he was. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

01-02-2003, 01:38 PM	#30
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	<A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=001356" TARGET=_blank>Here</A> is a thread in which Morquesse gave a link to an interview with Dominic Monaghan. The thing about the fat suit is in there somewhere. I think I also read about it on a trivia page for FotR <BR><A HREF="http://us.imdb.com/Trivia?0120737" TARGET=_blank>here.</A><p>[ January 02, 2003: Message edited by: Diamond18 ] __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

01-02-2003, 01:50 PM	#31
nevfeniel Guest Posts: n/a	Maybe the reason Gollum called Sam fat was because he was so used to seeing himself all the time. Gollum isn't exactly the heaviest creature in Middle Earth. He probably got used to seeing his small waistline, and assumed that anything heavier would be considered fat. This is only my opinion, but, if I may say so, I think it is a pretty good theory.

01-02-2003, 01:51 PM	#32
ArwenBaggins Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: I don't know... will there be a quiz on this later? Posts: 486	I think Sean Astin is a very good Samwise Gamgee. I have seen him in other movies (The Goonies, Encino Man, Rudy) and I like his acting style very much.<BR>When I read the Fellowship of the Ring, I imagined Sam a little 'chunky'. I think Sean did a very good job. I can not see anyone else playing that part!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Fat people are harder to kidnap!<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Very funny, and true. Heavier people also hurt alot more when they plop on top of you, like in Poor Gollum's case.(did I just say poor Gollum? )<p>[ January 02, 2003: Message edited by: ArwenBaggins ] __________________ .:Chelsy:. Reality is a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there. Terennth Kingdoms

01-02-2003, 01:51 PM	#33
Aylwen Dreamsong The Melody of Misery Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Island of Conclusions (You get there by jumping!)... Posts: 1,147	I'm fine with a chunky Sam. Sean's isn't exactly the way I pictured Sam before the movie's came out, but I can't imagine too many other people as good for the part.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Last time I checked, two wrongs still didn't make a right. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If two wrongs don't make a right, try three. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> What about Merry, Pippin, Frodo and Bilbo? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Actually, somewhere in the FotR book, it says something about Frodo looking in the mirror, and how he had gained weight in his years, and that he expected to lose some weight on the journey (Couldn't find the exact quote, I'm too tired ).<P>Aylwen __________________ ...Come down now, they'll say. But everything looks perfect from far away - Come down now! But we'll stay.