The Concise TTT Nitpicker's Guide - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

ReededGoat · 12-20-2002, 11:23 PM

When Aragorn is discovering Pippin and Merry escaped from the orcs in the battle and we flashback to Pippin about to be trampled by a horse his arms are on either side of his head, not bound at the wrists...then he crawls away and suddenly has to sever the bonds that tie his wrists If Merry and Pippin see Gandalf first with Treebeard, why is it that he acts like he first hears his name when he later meets Aragorn Gimli and Legolas? Too bad Eomer wasn't in the movie at all... Too bad the Ents are a bunch of goofy looking clowns at the Entmoot, except for Treebeard... Too bad Theoden is such a wishy washy wuss... Too bad Gimli is more of a comic than a warrior... Why wasn't Minas Morgul on Faramir's map? It's really amazing how Faramir and Co. find Frodo and Co. on the East side of the river, then suddenly end up on the West side of Osgiliath and the river when it's being seiged from the East... Too bad Faramir's not in the movie... Too bad Merry and Pippin never get to sleep for the countless days they're riding up in Treebeard's branches... Too bad it takes Treebeard days and days to cross Fangorn forest but it only takes a couple days for everyone to get from Edoras to Helm's Deep... I forgot that Grima was riding a horse 50 times faster than Shadowfax, since he gets to Isengard in a day... Too bad Grima's surname in the film is Wormtongue when in the book it's a bad nickname given to him by Gandalf... Too bad the movie becomes 'The Exorcist' for five minutes in Edoras...Too bad this movie was good but could have been so much better.aaronSpecial note on all the time/distance issues - you can't get too hung up on them, but they should at least be somewhat consistent within the context of the film. Merry and Pippin with Treebeard is the biggest monkeywrench in the time continuity thing.

Have a day · 12-20-2002, 11:43 PM

I have to disagree with you on a few of those things there but a few of them I found interesting.

ReededGoat · 12-20-2002, 11:47 PM

There are only a few opnions in there...most are scathing observations of actualities.Groovy that you disagree with some of the opinions, though...that's what's so cool about them - everyone's are different and they're what make message boards so dope.

LePetitChoux · 12-21-2002, 07:28 AM

I have some if you don't mind [list] <LI>too bad the ents only take what? half an hour to decide on the answer NO...sounds hasty to me... <LI>too bad Treebeard and the Ents (my favourite characters in the whole trilogy) were made into empire walkers <LI>too bad PJ looks like this now: He said the film was based on the books...it isn't!

Aragorn2002 · 12-21-2002, 07:32 AM

Hey, PJ's human, he makes mistakes, noone's perfect. and if all you did was watch for mistakes in the movie, how did you enjoy it.
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ReededGoat · 12-21-2002, 07:47 AM

First of all, I do think it's a disservice to PJ to say that his opinions and decisions are 'mistakes'. Everything they did was well thought out, and exists within the confines of their collective artistic vision. Since TTT deviated so drastically from the novel, it doesn't require that one 'look' for bad choices (from a personal perspective). As I've said in other threads - one can have many problems with a great film and still enjoy it and love it. TTT will grow on me just as FOTR did...it will just take a lot longer.

Aragorn2002 · 12-21-2002, 07:50 AM

I just wanted to add something... PJ did his best job. He was under alot of pressure. Do you think you could make a better movie?
________
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12-21-2002, 09:53 AM

I'm not sure where, but I believe that Peter Jackson said that TTT would be the least faithful to the books; he said it would be really hard. And now I just have to express my opinion about the ents (I'm not actually nit-picking, though). I always imagined their torsos being long and their legs being short; not the other way around. Oh well. It's PJ's version, not mine.

LePetitChoux · 12-21-2002, 03:43 PM

I believe that I could write a better script, but not atually make a better movie (I don't have WETA under my control! ).

Hilde Bracegirdle · 12-21-2002, 04:06 PM

Basically, needed a forum so that I can say "ACK?!" after seeing The Two Towers last night. (What HAVE they done!) It's hard to know whether it is more painful to have the story done as a cartoon or as a serious, but also seriously rewritten, movie. Fellowship was a bit off the mark, (ie Gandalf going to consult Saruman, ouch), but beautiful. The Two Towers....if I didn't know the story I might have enjoyed it, but as it was a couldn't help shaking my head the whole time. Who was that guy masquading as Faramir? When did Eomer ever get exiled? I don't remember that! Frodo was losing it in a big way, when he seemed to become steely than mad in the book ("lost it" very infrequently). What happened to Eowyn's remoteness? What was that Aragorn floating down river thing. What was that whole Arwen thing? What was that Legolas getting up on the horse in a rather impossible way thing???[ January 10, 2003: Message edited by: Hilde Bracegirdle ]

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 12-21-2002, 04:11 PM

It is quite arrogant to call Jackson wrong. It's a very hard adaptation, you cannot make everyone happy with the end product, and he wanted to change a couple of things here and there.Whoever had made that movie (apart from JRRT himself), people would have been unhappy with it.

Pukel-Man · 12-21-2002, 08:36 PM

Not to mention the moon seemed intensely bright as Gollum led Frodo and Sam on their little trip. I guess the hundreds of years living underground did not affect his light sensitivity after all. It's also good that the guards on the "constantly guarded" black gate did not see three figures move to within 200 yards of the gate while crossing the barren earth in broad daylight.

12-21-2002, 08:52 PM

whatever happened to reading the book Granted I loved the movie but I am confused by some of the scenes for instance. Eomer exiled(he was not exiled but imprisoned after he returned to edoras) Aragorn Falling(he's the future king he can't be falling) Leading the people of Edoras to Helms Deep(they go to the mountains at Dunharrow the folk of westfold are in the caves) Eomer not at helms deep till the end(no Erkenbrand) ELVES AT HELMS DEEP????(Haldir's death...is it just me?) the Ents wern't angered at the entmoot(no huorns either,only one Hasty remark too.) Frodo did no falling into any pools much less confronting a Nazgul Faramir in general(not letting them go, being submissive, no story of finding Boromir) Arwen thinking for a moment to leave middle earth, Elrond making her? His father was Earendil, he is the offspring of an elf/man relationship.Granted I know its hard making a movie and you can't please everyone in 3 hours and somethings needed to be added(aragorn+arwen story, no time in the 3rd movie) and ommited(shelob, just add another 45 minutes to this one, uh huh) But me and my friends who saw this were just short of cussing the film outright for such grievences, I had to remind my friend that its ok Haldir doesn't really die. I still loved the acting and graphics and I still will get the movie 1st day its released. So I just needed to vent. Thanks

greyhavener · 12-21-2002, 10:37 PM

I don't think P.J. has enough faith in his audience. Yes, it's an action movie, but we are willing to tolerate somewhat lengthly conversations that move the story along, reveal character, and impart information. We did in FoTR.Had he remained true to the books by using the conversations that take place between Faramir and Frodo on their first meeting, between Merry and Pippin and Treebeard, and between Aragorn and Theoden rather than resorting to tension and action he would not have diminished three worthy characters.I can accept changes, and even additoins, to action, but I take exception to changes that misrepresent the strength and dignity of characters like Faramir, Treebeard, and Theoden. This story is full of heroes each of whom exhibits a piece of what it takes to defeat Mordor. It's not a competition. Aragorn and Frodo are not lessened as heroes because others are also strong.That said, I still enjoyed the movie, I just take exception with how these characters were depicted.

12-22-2002, 02:14 AM

My take, I like the movie, will like it more the next time I see it, which will be much more for enjoyment. The first time is always the critique. Obviously, Aragorn falling and Gandalf exorcising demons were points of discontent. Also, I'm not sure why Frodo was taken back to Gondor, this seemed to betray the true nature of Faramir as his literary self. How do the nearly omniscient ents not know thier forest is being ravaged, yeah, the elves, where were the horns...and what about "Elendil, I am Aragorn son of Arathorn,..." and so on, I thought this would have fit well, one of the most powerful lines in the whole story...Alas, he has done a great job with a tremendous undertaking, and perhaps there are reasons we do not know, maybe Frodo was taken to Gondor to show how much Faramir wished to please his father since Boromir was also the favored...there are things worth considering I believe...Anyways, I did love the scene at Isengard with the ents...[ December 22, 2002: Message edited by: coryfly ]

zacattack · 12-22-2002, 02:28 AM

There are a few on your list that I strongly disagree with mainly that Faramir was only in the book for a bit and that Theodon was portrayed as that,I personally thought Gimli was the 2nd best part of the movie(1st being Battle at Helms Deep)I mean why did Frodo and Sam get taken to Osgiliath anyway,plus in the book don't they actually get to Cirith Ungol

the mortal elf · 12-22-2002, 12:06 PM

I really only have two points of major complaint: The whole Faramir fiasco and Legolas's constantly changing eye color! Don't you think they could have picked it up by now?I didn't really mind all the extra Aragorn/Arwen stuff. The deal with Arwen leaving made me cry. And I think it was reasonable for Elrond to want Arwen to leave, I mean, she's his daughter and he wants her to stay alive! It's not that hard a concept to grasp.I agree, the elves at Helm's Deep were a bit much, but it added drama. (i.e. Haldir dying and me overflowing with tears)I'm actually surprised about how calm I am considering the major changes from the books. Last year, I was nitpicking beyond reason, and this year, I'm laying back and letting others bicker (about most things). Have fun looking for more things to criticize

12-20-2002, 11:23 PM	#1
ReededGoat Animated Skeleton Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 32	The Concise TTT Nitpicker's Guide When Aragorn is discovering Pippin and Merry escaped from the orcs in the battle and we flashback to Pippin about to be trampled by a horse his arms are on either side of his head, not bound at the wrists...then he crawls away and suddenly has to sever the bonds that tie his wrists<BR>If Merry and Pippin see Gandalf first with Treebeard, why is it that he acts like he first hears his name when he later meets Aragorn Gimli and Legolas?<BR>Too bad Eomer wasn't in the movie at all...<BR>Too bad the Ents are a bunch of goofy looking clowns at the Entmoot, except for Treebeard...<BR>Too bad Theoden is such a wishy washy wuss...<BR>Too bad Gimli is more of a comic than a warrior...<BR>Why wasn't Minas Morgul on Faramir's map?<BR>It's really amazing how Faramir and Co. find Frodo and Co. on the East side of the river, then suddenly end up on the West side of Osgiliath and the river when it's being seiged from the East...<BR>Too bad Faramir's not in the movie...<BR>Too bad Merry and Pippin never get to sleep for the countless days they're riding up in Treebeard's branches...<BR>Too bad it takes Treebeard days and days to cross Fangorn forest but it only takes a couple days for everyone to get from Edoras to Helm's Deep...<BR>I forgot that Grima was riding a horse 50 times faster than Shadowfax, since he gets to Isengard in a day...<BR>Too bad Grima's surname in the film is Wormtongue when in the book it's a bad nickname given to him by Gandalf...<BR>Too bad the movie becomes 'The Exorcist' for five minutes in Edoras...<P>Too bad this movie was good but could have been so much better.<P>aaron<P>Special note on all the time/distance issues - you can't get too hung up on them, but they should at least be somewhat consistent within the context of the film. Merry and Pippin with Treebeard is the biggest monkeywrench in the time continuity thing.

12-20-2002, 11:43 PM	#2
Have a day Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 15	I have to disagree with you on a few of those things there but a few of them I found interesting. __________________ Laugh at me now, laugh at me later, laugh at me as I smash your face into a table "There once was an alliance between the preps and the punks..." From my unholy mockery 'Lord of the scrunchie'

12-20-2002, 11:47 PM	#3
ReededGoat Animated Skeleton Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 32	There are only a few opnions in there...most are scathing observations of actualities.<P>Groovy that you disagree with some of the opinions, though...that's what's so cool about them - everyone's are different and they're what make message boards so dope.

12-21-2002, 07:28 AM	#4
LePetitChoux Vegetable of Doom Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: London Posts: 720	I have some if you don't mind<BR>[list]<BR><LI>too bad the ents only take what? half an hour to decide on the answer NO...sounds hasty to me...<BR><LI>too bad Treebeard and the Ents (my favourite characters in the whole trilogy) were made into empire walkers<BR><LI>too bad PJ looks like this now:<BR> <BR>He said the film was based on the books...it isn't! __________________ je suis une bonne odeur

12-21-2002, 07:32 AM	#5
Aragorn2002 Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: US Posts: 91	Hey, PJ's human, he makes mistakes, noone's perfect. and if all you did was watch for mistakes in the movie, how did you enjoy it. ________ Motorcycle Tires Last edited by Aragorn2002; 04-15-2011 at 03:22 AM.

12-21-2002, 07:47 AM	#6
ReededGoat Animated Skeleton Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 32	First of all, I do think it's a disservice to PJ to say that his opinions and decisions are 'mistakes'. Everything they did was well thought out, and exists within the confines of their collective artistic vision. Since TTT deviated so drastically from the novel, it doesn't require that one 'look' for bad choices (from a personal perspective). As I've said in other threads - one can have many problems with a great film and still enjoy it and love it. TTT will grow on me just as FOTR did...it will just take a lot longer.

12-21-2002, 07:50 AM	#7
Aragorn2002 Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: US Posts: 91	I just wanted to add something...<BR>PJ did his best job. He was under alot of pressure. Do you think you could make a better movie? ________ Curvy Webcam Last edited by Aragorn2002; 04-15-2011 at 03:22 AM.

12-21-2002, 09:53 AM	#8
nevfeniel Guest Posts: n/a	I'm not sure where, but I believe that Peter Jackson said that TTT would be the least faithful to the books; he said it would be really hard.<BR>And now I just have to express my opinion about the ents (I'm not actually nit-picking, though). I always imagined their torsos being long and their legs being short; not the other way around. Oh well. It's PJ's version, not mine.

12-21-2002, 03:43 PM	#9
LePetitChoux Vegetable of Doom Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: London Posts: 720	I believe that I could write a better script, but not atually make a better movie (I don't have WETA under my control! ). __________________ je suis une bonne odeur

12-21-2002, 04:06 PM	#10
Hilde Bracegirdle Relic of Wandering Days Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: You'll See Perpetual Change. Posts: 1,480	Basically, needed a forum so that I can say "ACK?!" after seeing The Two Towers last night. (What HAVE they done!) It's hard to know whether it is more painful to have the story done as a cartoon or as a serious, but also seriously rewritten, movie. Fellowship was a bit off the mark, (ie Gandalf going to consult Saruman, ouch), but beautiful. The Two Towers....if I didn't know the story I might have enjoyed it, but as it was a couldn't help shaking my head the whole time.<P><BR>Who was that guy masquading as Faramir?<BR>When did Eomer ever get exiled? I don't remember that!<BR>Frodo was losing it in a big way, when he seemed to become steely than mad in the book<BR>("lost it" very infrequently).<BR>What happened to Eowyn's remoteness?<BR>What was that Aragorn floating down river thing.<BR>What was that whole Arwen thing?<BR>What was that Legolas getting up on the horse in a rather impossible way thing???<p>[ January 10, 2003: Message edited by: Hilde Bracegirdle ]

12-21-2002, 04:11 PM	#11
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	It is quite arrogant to call Jackson wrong. It's a very hard adaptation, you cannot make everyone happy with the end product, and he wanted to change a couple of things here and there.<P>Whoever had made that movie (apart from JRRT himself), people would have been unhappy with it. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

12-21-2002, 08:36 PM	#12
Pukel-Man Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona, -East of Dunharrow Posts: 54	Not to mention the moon seemed intensely bright as Gollum led Frodo and Sam on their little trip. I guess the hundreds of years living underground did not affect his light sensitivity after all. It's also good that the guards on the "constantly guarded" black gate did not see three figures move to within 200 yards of the gate while crossing the barren earth in broad daylight. __________________ This is not the time or the place to perform some kind of a half-assed autopsy on a fish... And I'm not going to stand here and see that thing cut open and see that little Kintner boy spill out all over the dock!-Mayor Vaughn

12-21-2002, 08:52 PM	#13
luthien Guest Posts: n/a	whatever happened to reading the book Granted I loved the movie but I am confused by some of the scenes for instance.<BR>Eomer exiled(he was not exiled but imprisoned after he returned to edoras)<BR>Aragorn Falling(he's the future king he can't be falling) <BR>Leading the people of Edoras to Helms Deep(they go to the mountains at Dunharrow the folk of westfold are in the caves) <BR>Eomer not at helms deep till the end(no Erkenbrand)<BR>ELVES AT HELMS DEEP????(Haldir's death...is it just me?)<BR>the Ents wern't angered at the entmoot(no huorns either,only one Hasty remark too.)<BR>Frodo did no falling into any pools much less confronting a Nazgul<BR>Faramir in general(not letting them go, being submissive, no story of finding Boromir)<BR>Arwen thinking for a moment to leave middle earth, Elrond making her? His father was Earendil, he is the offspring of an elf/man relationship.<P>Granted I know its hard making a movie and you can't please everyone in 3 hours and somethings needed to be added(aragorn+arwen story, no time in the 3rd movie) and ommited(shelob, just add another 45 minutes to this one, uh huh) But me and my friends who saw this were just short of cussing the film outright for such grievences, I had to remind my friend that its ok Haldir doesn't really die. I still loved the acting and graphics and I still will get the movie 1st day its released. So I just needed to vent. Thanks

12-21-2002, 10:37 PM	#14
greyhavener Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: austin Posts: 169	I don't think P.J. has enough faith in his audience. Yes, it's an action movie, but we are willing to tolerate somewhat lengthly conversations that move the story along, reveal character, and impart information. We did in FoTR.<P>Had he remained true to the books by using the conversations that take place between Faramir and Frodo on their first meeting, between Merry and Pippin and Treebeard, and between Aragorn and Theoden rather than resorting to tension and action he would not have diminished three worthy characters.<P>I can accept changes, and even additoins, to action, but I take exception to changes that misrepresent the strength and dignity of characters like Faramir, Treebeard, and Theoden. This story is full of heroes each of whom exhibits a piece of what it takes to defeat Mordor. It's not a competition. Aragorn and Frodo are not lessened as heroes because others are also strong.<P>That said, I still enjoyed the movie, I just take exception with how these characters were depicted. __________________ Do justly, love mercy, walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8

12-22-2002, 02:14 AM	#15
coryfly Guest Posts: n/a	My take, I like the movie, will like it more the next time I see it, which will be much more for enjoyment. The first time is always the critique. Obviously, Aragorn falling and Gandalf exorcising demons were points of discontent. Also, I'm not sure why Frodo was taken back to Gondor, this seemed to betray the true nature of Faramir as his literary self. How do the nearly omniscient ents not know thier forest is being ravaged, yeah, the elves, where were the horns...and what about "Elendil, I am Aragorn son of Arathorn,..." and so on, I thought this would have fit well, one of the most powerful lines in the whole story...Alas, he has done a great job with a tremendous undertaking, and perhaps there are reasons we do not know, maybe Frodo was taken to Gondor to show how much Faramir wished to please his father since Boromir was also the favored...there are things worth considering I believe...Anyways, I did love the scene at Isengard with the ents...<p>[ December 22, 2002: Message edited by: coryfly ]

12-22-2002, 02:28 AM	#16
zacattack Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Angband Posts: 70	There are a few on your list that I strongly disagree with mainly that Faramir was only in the book for a bit and that Theodon was portrayed as that,I personally thought Gimli was the 2nd best part of the movie(1st being Battle at Helms Deep)I mean why did Frodo and Sam get taken to Osgiliath anyway,plus in the book don't they actually get to Cirith Ungol __________________ "The dwarf breathes so loud we could have shot him in the dark "What an excellent spot I choose"-Gimli "Would you like me to describe it to you or just fetch for a box"-Legolas

12-22-2002, 12:06 PM	#17
the mortal elf Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away... Posts: 201	I really only have two points of major complaint: The whole Faramir fiasco and Legolas's constantly changing eye color! Don't you think they could have picked it up by now?<P>I didn't really mind all the extra Aragorn/Arwen stuff. The deal with Arwen leaving made me cry. And I think it was reasonable for Elrond to want Arwen to leave, I mean, she's his daughter and he wants her to stay alive! It's not that hard a concept to grasp.<P>I agree, the elves at Helm's Deep were a bit much, but it added drama. (i.e. Haldir dying and me overflowing with tears)<P>I'm actually surprised about how calm I am considering the major changes from the books. Last year, I was nitpicking beyond reason, and this year, I'm laying back and letting others bicker (about most things). Have fun looking for more things to criticize __________________ My imaginary friend says you have problems.