Hope? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

12-19-2002, 08:07 PM

I am curious to see what others are thinking...From all of the reviews, we keep hearing people mention how dark The Two Towers is. Upon leaving the theater, my husband (who recently finished reading TTT and is working on ROTK), made an observation that the movie was full of hope. I have been thinking about this since seeing it, and have to agree. In the appendix of ROTK, Tolkien goes into further detail of Aragorn and Arwen's story. Hope is mentioned many times...Aragorn's name given to him by Elrond even means "hope" in Elvish. I am grateful that this theme was picked up on by PJ and crew and threaded throughout the movie...even if one has to look hard for it. Here are some "hopeful" instances that I can remember (right now...need a second viewing..):The interaction between Smeagol and Frodo. I believe that Frodo not only sees in Smeagol what he himself could possibly become, but also hope that Smeagol can be redeemed. I guess hope that there might still be good left in him. Likewise, there is hope that in Smeagol's "new found goodness", the quest might just be accomplished. It almost seems that Frodo begins to lose this hope when he sees Gollum begin to reappear.The Legolas and Aragorn interaction. Legolas began to lose perspective and accordingly, was overwhelmed by the surrounding circumstances. He sees the strength that is in Aragorn...although seemingly hopeless...who sets his mind to fight to the bitter end. Although different from the book, the Elves coming to Helms Deep brought hope. Hope of renewed relations, and hope for the battle. Legolas is able to grasp this. Gandalf freeing Theoden. The people of Rohan had lived in such despair under the shadow of Saruman...that when Theoden was freed, even with looming war, a cloud seemed to be lifted. These are just a few of the instances that I can think of. I'm interested to hear others opinions...and to see if you can see hope in the despair.

Aragorn2002 · 12-19-2002, 08:21 PM

I agree with you 100% on this issue. Hope was mentioned many times during the movie. There fore I believe the movie did symbolize hope in many different ways.
________
redheaded Cams

The Silver-shod Muse · 12-19-2002, 10:51 PM

Gandalf's coming with the dawn was really nice, very fiery and bright and turning-the-tideish.

-Imrahil- · 12-19-2002, 11:47 PM

Yes I loved that too.Hope is definately a huge thing in the movie. It is dark, and yet hopeful.

Thingol1000 · 12-20-2002, 07:41 AM

"The interaction between Smeagol and Frodo. I believe that Frodo not only sees in Smeagol what he himself could possibly become, but also hope that Smeagol can be redeemed. "I think it is more of a "must be redeemed" then "can be redeemed" Otherwise, Frodo is inevitably looking at himself in the future. That's not hope, thats damm scary. Otherwise I agree with you 100% (I thought the movie rocked)

12-20-2002, 10:07 AM

Thingol, great point! I think "must" conveys the gravity of Frodo's position much more than "can"...I also thought of something else this morning...Towards the end of the movie (note: I'm refering to PJ's use of hope...not Tolkien's), Frodo becomes completely submerged in his situation and cannot hope for himself. I love how Sam begins to hope for the both of them. If anyone has reason to despair I think it would be Sam. Looking at the rest of the fellowship, you have the front men who are used to the battle (Aragorn, Boromir, Gimli, Legolas)...then you have the hobbits who are a little bit accoustomed to adventure (Merry, Pippen), and even Frodo who once desired adventure. But Sam was sort of pulled into going along...a simple gardener. I think one of Sam's main roles is to cling to hope for Frodo...One can only imagine if Sam sat down and gave up. Which brings more poignancy to Sam's "Hope" speech.

12-19-2002, 08:07 PM	#1
Estel Edain Guest Posts: n/a	Hope? I am curious to see what others are thinking...<P>From all of the reviews, we keep hearing people mention how dark The Two Towers is. Upon leaving the theater, my husband (who recently finished reading TTT and is working on ROTK), made an observation that the movie was full of hope. I have been thinking about this since seeing it, and have to agree. <P>In the appendix of ROTK, Tolkien goes into further detail of Aragorn and Arwen's story. Hope is mentioned many times...Aragorn's name given to him by Elrond even means "hope" in Elvish. I am grateful that this theme was picked up on by PJ and crew and threaded throughout the movie...even if one has to look hard for it. Here are some "hopeful" instances that I can remember (right now...need a second viewing..):<P>The interaction between Smeagol and Frodo. I believe that Frodo not only sees in Smeagol what he himself could possibly become, but also hope that Smeagol can be redeemed. I guess hope that there might still be good left in him. Likewise, there is hope that in Smeagol's "new found goodness", the quest might just be accomplished. It almost seems that Frodo begins to lose this hope when he sees Gollum begin to reappear.<P>The Legolas and Aragorn interaction. Legolas began to lose perspective and accordingly, was overwhelmed by the surrounding circumstances. He sees the strength that is in Aragorn...although seemingly hopeless...who sets his mind to fight to the bitter end. Although different from the book, the Elves coming to Helms Deep brought hope. Hope of renewed relations, and hope for the battle. Legolas is able to grasp this. <P>Gandalf freeing Theoden. The people of Rohan had lived in such despair under the shadow of Saruman...that when Theoden was freed, even with looming war, a cloud seemed to be lifted. <P>These are just a few of the instances that I can think of. I'm interested to hear others opinions...and to see if you can see hope in the despair.

12-19-2002, 08:21 PM	#2
Aragorn2002 Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: US Posts: 91	I agree with you 100% on this issue. Hope was mentioned many times during the movie. There fore I believe the movie did symbolize hope in many different ways. ________ redheaded Cams Last edited by Aragorn2002; 04-15-2011 at 03:20 AM.

12-19-2002, 10:51 PM	#3
The Silver-shod Muse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX Posts: 388	Gandalf's coming with the dawn was really nice, very fiery and bright and turning-the-tideish. __________________ "'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis

12-19-2002, 11:47 PM	#4
-Imrahil- Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Dol Amroth, upon the Bay of Belfalas Posts: 259	Yes I loved that too.<P>Hope is definately a huge thing in the movie. It is dark, and yet hopeful. __________________ My body is broken. I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company I shall not now be ashamed. I felled the black serpent. A grim morn, and a glad day, and a golden sunset!

12-20-2002, 07:41 AM	#5
Thingol1000 Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 37	"The interaction between Smeagol and Frodo. I believe that Frodo not only sees in Smeagol what he himself could possibly become, but also hope that Smeagol can be redeemed. "<P>I think it is more of a <I>"must be redeemed"</I> then <I>"can be redeemed"</I><BR>Otherwise, Frodo is inevitably looking at himself in the future. That's not hope, thats damm scary.<BR>Otherwise I agree with you 100%<BR>(I thought the movie rocked)

12-20-2002, 10:07 AM	#6
Estel Edain Guest Posts: n/a	Thingol, great point! I think "must" conveys the gravity of Frodo's position much more than "can"...<P>I also thought of something else this morning...Towards the end of the movie (note: I'm refering to PJ's use of hope...not Tolkien's), Frodo becomes completely submerged in his situation and cannot hope for himself. I love how Sam begins to hope for the both of them. If anyone has reason to despair I think it would be Sam. Looking at the rest of the fellowship, you have the front men who are used to the battle (Aragorn, Boromir, Gimli, Legolas)...then you have the hobbits who are a little bit accoustomed to adventure (Merry, Pippen), and even Frodo who once desired adventure. But Sam was sort of pulled into going along...a simple gardener. <P>I think one of Sam's main roles is to cling to hope for Frodo...One can only imagine if Sam sat down and gave up. Which brings more poignancy to Sam's "Hope" speech.