Would you like to see PJ or someone else try the Silmarillion and 'The Hobbit' ? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

**lindil** · 12-19-2002, 06:25 PM

well hmm? we have seen what he has done with 1 and 3/4 of the Trilogy, is there someone out there more sympathetic?Perhaps let Ian McKellan produce it.And keep PJ's team [ especially Howe and Lee!]I would especcially like to see JRRT's wish of a more LotR [matured] Hobbit as opposed to a children's story.Heck you could even have Legolas leading an Elf brigade and thus guarantee success!As for the Silm, man it would be tough and would need a couple of films, you could end #1 it with men sailing off to numenor, #2 could start with the Three Rings being made and Aldarion and Erendis into the War of Elves and Sauron and then the Atalante', anding with the Last Alliance [ which of course is not the last anymore with our new Helm's Deep!] ps M. Sulimo's enthusiasm was to a much shorter post originally.[ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ]

Manwe Sulimo · 12-19-2002, 06:41 PM

Two words:Hell yes!

Ithaeliel · 12-19-2002, 07:11 PM

Ditto here.The Sil would be a high-budget film considering the number of actors and all, but it's possible!!!!!!

Birdland · 12-19-2002, 07:19 PM

Nah, you couldn't do the whole Silm, it would be a disaster on the level of the film version of The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire. Perhaps you could select a story from the Silm, but if people are going to complain about the changes in LoTR, think what they would do to the film maker who tried to flesh out the somewhat one-dimentional gods and Elves of the Silm? As for the Hobbit: New Line owns the rights I believe, but P.J. stated that he would love to see a film made of the book - just so long as his only involvement was paying $7.50 for a ticket.

Aragorn2002 · 12-19-2002, 07:25 PM

not at all.PJ has done a good job
________
Universal health

MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie · 12-19-2002, 07:32 PM

Yes and no. No because I'd like to have these two books unscathed by hollywood. I'd like to keep my visions and not be affected by someone elses.Yes but if it were PJ, it would have to be EXACTLY like the books. I don't want any more if his vision crap. I have lost a lot of respect for him since TTT.

Pookabunny · 12-19-2002, 09:04 PM

PJ's original idea was to do Hobbit. I was wondering the same - would they go back to do Hobbit? I'd LOVE to see it, but I'd be totally okay if they didn't.I don't want to see the Sim brought to the screen. I don't see it working. And I'm a HUGE fan of the LOTR films thus far - but I think they'd ruin the sim.

Haldir · 12-20-2002, 06:01 AM

I would really love to see a Hobbit movie (it was my favorite book) but I think that the Silmarilion would suck as a movie...If they do a movie according to the Hobbit, They'll have to find a new actor for Bilbo, Ian Holm (Sir Ian ?!?) is too old to play Bilbo in the Hobbit...

Voronwe · 12-20-2002, 07:19 AM

In my view there are only two stories in the Silmarillion (meaning first-age) that might possibly make good films on their own, and those would be 'Beren and Luthien' and the 'Narn i Hin Hurin'. None of the other stories go into enough depth or detail, although perhaps a case could be made for the original Fall of Gondolin from Lost Tales. But I don't think either of these would be at all attractive to movie-makers, set as they are in a huge and complex historical background. Also, the Narn especially has a rather tragic and bitter ending which is, of course, absolutely crucial to the story.I personally wouldn't want to see either of these made into movies. No matter how good the translation from paper to screen, it just wouldn't be the same.As to the entire Silmarillion, I just don't think it's suitable for a movie. There are too many characters, too many places, too many events. Very few of the characters make it through to the end. The plot would have to be drastically cut and altered, dropping a whole legion of characters and concentrating instead on the ones with the more important parts. But then it wouldn't really be the Silmarillion at all.On the other hand, I think The Hobbit, done properly, would make an excellent movie - although there might be rather too many Dwarves for Hollywood's taste.[ December 20, 2002: Message edited by: Voronwe ]

Maeglin · 12-20-2002, 07:58 AM

The only director I could possibly imagine to do the "hobbit's moive" well would be PJ. George Lucas or Steven Spielberg (as suggested by Time Warner) would totally ruin it to the worst hollywood-adventure-film you could imagine.I think it will be hard to get Gandalf to do his role again, though. And they just can't use another actor. That includes Bilbo too. And there's another problem. They are both older now, especially Bilbo is a bit old to play himself as young. Not to mention Elrond (who I think looked suspiciously old for an elf in the movies we seen already), Galadriel, Celeborn and so on.A hard project so to say...[ December 20, 2002: Message edited by: Maeglin ]

12-20-2002, 07:58 AM

I agree, the Silmarrilion would be too difficult to produce, and would be fairly untrue to the book if it was. On the other hand, the Hobbit would be amazing. I hope Jackson decides to make it before someone with a lot less knowledge and love for the book trys to come along and film it just for the profit.

Maikadilwen · 12-20-2002, 08:04 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Nah, you couldn't do the whole Silm, it would be a disaster <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Birdie, it could work, I think, if a basic storyline was made, say stick to Fëanor's family the most. It would leave out some of the stories, yes, but all in all, the story of the Silmarils begins and ends with Fëanor and his sons.Still, however, I believe that only fans of the book would want to see a movie based on the Silm. LOTR has been able to reach for a broader audience but I'm afraid that the Silm. is too.... "compact" for that. I have heard a lot of people tell, how they didn't understand anything of the Silm. the first time they read the book. More people would understand it if they could see it on film, but still not enough, I fear.

Maeglin · 12-20-2002, 08:05 AM

About the Silmarillion! Oufcorse there could be a movie! And severel of them. I can't get that you all are even concidering making a movie of the hole book. Just pick out a chapter or two and make a movie of it! It would be great. Imagine this title "Silmarillion - Maeglin's Tale" or "Silmarillion - The fall of Beleriand" or perhaps "Sillmarillion - The War of the Wrath". lol.Or why don't you make an hobbit adventure-movie, based on one of the stories you hear in the beginning of LOTR. [ December 20, 2002: Message edited by: Maeglin ]

TolkienGurl · 12-20-2002, 08:13 AM

I would love to see The Hobbit as a movie! Not only could they make a ton of money from it, it would help non-Tolkienites understand st least a little background for The Lord of the Rings. And Smaug! *faints**gets back up * Even though I haven't read the Silmarillion (yet!), I definitely say no to a movie on it. We Tolkienites would be way more disappointed with the turn out than some of us are with The Lord of the Rings! Many of the people going to see the movie would definitely not understand most of the story, and I think it would be very hard to show certain things, such as the creation of the world out of nothing using song. The Silmarillion seems to be more of an imagination book than a movie book, if you understand my meaning. If they did try to make it (which I doubt), there is a very good chance it will be a flop.Summary: The Hobbit, YES! The Silmarillion, NO WAY!

Nianna Telmnar · 12-20-2002, 08:54 AM

I agree with TolkenGurl. I believe The Hobbit needs another shot. Espically after that *cough* crappy *cough* version. But no, I don't think the simirillion could be done as a movie correctly. I am a firm believer that some things just werent meant to be changed from one medium to another. The Simirillion is one. Of course, that is just my opinion.

Man-of-the-Wold · 12-20-2002, 10:23 AM

As for a Film Hobbit, Ian Holm's role would be hard to recast. They likely need a new actor, although the whole thing of him being somewhat youngish in the Film-FoTR Prologue (which is true) but then aging later is not quite right. Once acquiring the Ring his appearance is not supposed to have aged one Iota. This of course would have been too much trouble to explain, and Movie tries to imply that he looks nowhere as old as he should for a Hobbit of 111. On the other hand they really wanted Ian Holm for the part, and it's a good choice even if they must go with a somewhate aged Bilbo. Where as Elijah Woods look is fine, even if his personality in Film-FoTR was still too child-like. He's supposed to look like a 33-year-old Hobbit, which is about 21 years for a human, and he's supposed to be "fair" for a Hobbit.In any case, it would be hard for Ian Holm to look and act like what would be the equivalent for a human of about late thirtyish for an entirely new film.As for Gandalf, I see no problem there. Hugo Weaving is and will remain for some time to be about right. The implications in the books, especially the Hobbit, is that he does not quite look like a pure Elf but rather a Man in his prime, which in that sense might mean mid-to-late thirtyish, or even older in a kingly if not athletic way. What they need to lose is his 5 o'clock shadow!As for the Silmarillion, although multiple movies would make imminent sense, I think those Books provide better fodder for a Motion Picture. In some cases as far as dialogue would go, it would be an original screenplay. The problems of Adaption would be far less, and the scope for totally far-out special effects much broader. That's the work that I think Mr. Jackson was made for, and might have best preceded the current LoTR production.

Keneldil the Polka-dot · 12-20-2002, 10:31 AM

The Hobbit--yes. Provided it is recreated as faithfully as possible. It is a simpler, stand alone type story, no reason or excuse why it couldn't be done right.The Silmarillion--no. I shudder to think of the butchery one of my favorite books since childhood would undergo. Changes would be inevitable since the Silmarillion does not lend itself to a movie style story line. Now maybe a made for DVD collection of the stories in the Sil. as individuals with as little editorial alteration as possible....that I would like to see.

**lindil** · 12-20-2002, 11:14 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> In any case, it would be hard for Ian Holm to look and act like what would be the equivalent for a human of about late thirtyish for an entirely new film. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I thought Bilbo ws 50 or so at the begining of the Hobbit. you may well be right about a Silmarillion series instead of movie.I would also only want it done if it was to the letter [ of our groups project of course ]PJ 'ish 'adaptations would be worse than nothing I think.But imagine the grandenesws of Valinor done right! or the Silmarills or the 2 lamps and 2 trees! It could potentially blow the LotR away.

Novlamothien · 12-21-2002, 04:40 PM

Lindil- I think Man of the World was talking in human equivalents. I do think the Hobbit would make a good movie, but only if it was done by PJ or somone with as much respect of Tolkien's works as he. You could even bring in Legolas and give him a small part during the time they are at the Thrandul's halls. (He is, after all, Legolas' father) Silmarillion- I don't know. It would be hard, because even if only one story was done it would be difficult to explain things that had gone on before. Namarie

12-19-2002, 07:11 PM	#3
Ithaeliel Cornus Caliga Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Five-hundred-twenty-five thousand, six hundred minutes from here Posts: 710	Ditto here.<P>The Sil would be a high-budget film considering the number of actors and all, but it's possible!!!!!! __________________ That best portion of a good man's life, His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. .................William Wordsworth

12-19-2002, 07:19 PM	#4
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,751	Nah, you couldn't do the whole Silm, it would be a disaster on the level of the film version of <I>The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire</I>. Perhaps you could select a story from the Silm, but if people are going to complain about the changes in LoTR, think what they would do to the film maker who tried to flesh out the somewhat one-dimentional gods and Elves of the Silm? <P>As for the Hobbit: New Line owns the rights I believe, but P.J. stated that he would love to see a film made of the book - just so long as his only involvement was paying $7.50 for a ticket.

12-19-2002, 07:25 PM	#5
Aragorn2002 Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: US Posts: 91	not at all.PJ has done a good job ________ Universal health Last edited by Aragorn2002; 04-15-2011 at 03:19 AM.

12-19-2002, 07:32 PM	#6
MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 573	Yes and no. No because I'd like to have these two books unscathed by hollywood. I'd like to keep my visions and not be affected by someone elses.<P>Yes but if it were PJ, it would have to be <B>EXACTLY</B> like the books. I don't want any more if his vision crap. I have lost a lot of respect for him since TTT. __________________ Do Not Touch -Willie

12-19-2002, 09:04 PM	#7
Pookabunny Wight Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The only place that matters! Posts: 181	PJ's original idea was to do Hobbit. <P>I was wondering the same - would they go back to do Hobbit? I'd LOVE to see it, but I'd be totally okay if they didn't.<P>I don't want to see the Sim brought to the screen. I don't see it working. And I'm a HUGE fan of the LOTR films thus far - but I think they'd ruin the sim. __________________ "I love you more than I did the week before, I discovered alcohol" - Bare Naked Ladies

12-19-2002, 06:25 PM	#1
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	Would you like to see PJ or someone else try the Silmarillion and 'The Hobbit' ? well hmm? <P>we have seen what he has done with 1 and 3/4 of the Trilogy, is there someone out there more sympathetic?<P>Perhaps let Ian McKellan produce it.<P>And keep PJ's team [ especially Howe and Lee!]<P>I would especcially like to see JRRT's wish of a more LotR [matured] Hobbit as opposed to a children's story.<P>Heck you could even have Legolas leading an Elf brigade and thus guarantee success!<P>As for the Silm, man it would be tough and would need a couple of films, you could end #1 it with men sailing off to numenor, #2 could start with the Three Rings being made and Aldarion and Erendis into the War of Elves and Sauron and then the Atalante', anding with the Last Alliance [ which of course is not the last anymore with our new Helm's Deep!]<BR> <P><BR>ps M. Sulimo's enthusiasm was to a much shorter post originally.<p>[ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ] __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

12-19-2002, 06:41 PM	#2
Manwe Sulimo Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Taurelilómëa-tumbalemorna Tumbaletaurëa Lómëanor Posts: 553	Two words:<P>Hell yes! __________________ "Monkeys learn sign language so they can tell the dolphins they love them."

12-20-2002, 06:01 AM	#8
Haldir Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 40	I would really love to see a Hobbit movie<BR>(it was my favorite book) but I think that<BR>the Silmarilion would suck as a movie...<P>If they do a movie according to the Hobbit,<BR>They'll have to find a new actor for Bilbo,<BR>Ian Holm (Sir Ian ?!?) is too old to play<BR>Bilbo in the Hobbit... __________________ "In place of a Lord you shall have a Queen, not Dark but Beautiful and Terrible as the Dawn, Treacherous as the Sea, Stronger than the foundations of the Earth all shall love me and dispair"

12-20-2002, 07:19 AM	#9
Voronwe Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Gondolin Posts: 413	In my view there are only two stories in the Silmarillion (meaning first-age) that might possibly make good films on their own, and those would be 'Beren and Luthien' and the 'Narn i Hin Hurin'. None of the other stories go into enough depth or detail, although perhaps a case could be made for the original Fall of Gondolin from Lost Tales. But I don't think either of these would be at all attractive to movie-makers, set as they are in a huge and complex historical background. Also, the Narn especially has a rather tragic and bitter ending which is, of course, absolutely crucial to the story.<P>I personally wouldn't want to see either of these made into movies. No matter how good the translation from paper to screen, it just wouldn't be the same.<P>As to the entire Silmarillion, I just don't think it's suitable for a movie. There are too many characters, too many places, too many events. Very few of the characters make it through to the end. The plot would have to be drastically cut and altered, dropping a whole legion of characters and concentrating instead on the ones with the more important parts. But then it wouldn't really be the Silmarillion at all.<P>On the other hand, I think The Hobbit, done properly, would make an excellent movie - although there might be rather too many Dwarves for Hollywood's taste.<p>[ December 20, 2002: Message edited by: Voronwe ] __________________ "If you would be a real seeker after truth, you must at least once in your life doubt, as far as possible, all things." -- René Descartes

12-20-2002, 07:58 AM	#10
Maeglin Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nan Elmoth Posts: 136	The only director I could possibly imagine to do the "hobbit's moive" well would be PJ. George Lucas or Steven Spielberg (as suggested by Time Warner) would totally ruin it to the worst hollywood-adventure-film you could imagine.<P>I think it will be hard to get Gandalf to do his role again, though. And they just can't use another actor. That includes Bilbo too. And there's another problem. They are both older now, especially Bilbo is a bit old to play himself as young. Not to mention Elrond (who I think looked suspiciously old for an elf in the movies we seen already), Galadriel, Celeborn and so on.<P>A hard project so to say...<p>[ December 20, 2002: Message edited by: Maeglin ] __________________ The fool speaks of what he knows. The wise knows what he speaks of.

12-20-2002, 07:58 AM	#11
Orodreth Guest Posts: n/a	I agree, the Silmarrilion would be too difficult to produce, and would be fairly untrue to the book if it was. On the other hand, the Hobbit would be amazing. I hope Jackson decides to make it before someone with a lot less knowledge and love for the book trys to come along and film it just for the profit.

12-20-2002, 08:04 AM	#12
Maikadilwen Summoner of Lost Souls Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: At home, with my Strongbow Posts: 521	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Nah, you couldn't do the whole Silm, it would be a disaster <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><B>Birdie</B>, it could work, I think, if a basic storyline was made, say stick to Fëanor's family the most. It would leave out some of the stories, yes, but all in all, the story of the Silmarils begins and ends with Fëanor and his sons.<P>Still, however, I believe that only fans of the book would want to see a movie based on the Silm. LOTR has been able to reach for a broader audience but I'm afraid that the Silm. is too.... "compact" for that. <BR>I have heard a lot of people tell, how they didn't understand anything of the Silm. the first time they read the book. More people would understand it if they could see it on film, but still not enough, I fear. __________________ -"Death borders upon our birth, and our cradle stands in the grave. Our birth is nothing but our death begun."

12-20-2002, 08:05 AM	#13
Maeglin Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nan Elmoth Posts: 136	About the Silmarillion! Oufcorse there could be a movie! And severel of them. I can't get that you all are even concidering making a movie of the hole book. Just pick out a chapter or two and make a movie of it! It would be great. Imagine this title "Silmarillion - Maeglin's Tale" or "Silmarillion - The fall of Beleriand" or perhaps "Sillmarillion - The War of the Wrath". lol.<P>Or why don't you make an hobbit adventure-movie, based on one of the stories you hear in the beginning of LOTR. <p>[ December 20, 2002: Message edited by: Maeglin ] __________________ The fool speaks of what he knows. The wise knows what he speaks of.

12-20-2002, 08:13 AM	#14
TolkienGurl Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 637	I would love to see The Hobbit as a movie! Not only could they make a ton of money from it, it would help non-Tolkienites understand st least a little background for The Lord of the Rings. And Smaug! faints<P>gets back up Even though I haven't read the Silmarillion (yet!), I definitely say no to a movie on it. We Tolkienites would be way more disappointed with the turn out than some of us are with The Lord of the Rings! Many of the people going to see the movie would definitely not understand most of the story, and I think it would be very hard to show certain things, such as the creation of the world out of nothing using song. The Silmarillion seems to be more of an imagination book than a movie book, if you understand my meaning. If they did try to make it (which I doubt), there is a very good chance it will be a flop.<P>Summary: <BR>The Hobbit, YES!<BR>The Silmarillion, NO WAY! __________________ Hopes fail. An end comes. We have only a little time to wait now. We are lost in ruin and downfall and there is no escape. -Frodo My Livejournal

12-20-2002, 08:54 AM	#15
Nianna Telmnar Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: somewhere between here and there Posts: 68	I agree with TolkenGurl. I believe The Hobbit needs another shot. Espically after that cough crappy cough version. But no, I don't think the simirillion could be done as a movie correctly. I am a firm believer that some things just werent meant to be changed from one medium to another. The Simirillion is one. Of course, that is just my opinion. __________________ "Don't Panic."

12-20-2002, 10:23 AM	#16
Man-of-the-Wold Wight Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: With Tux, dread poodle of Pinnath Galin Posts: 239	As for a Film Hobbit, Ian Holm's role would be hard to recast. They likely need a new actor, although the whole thing of him being somewhat youngish in the Film-FoTR Prologue (which is true) but then aging later is not quite right. Once acquiring the Ring his appearance is not supposed to have aged one Iota. This of course would have been too much trouble to explain, and Movie tries to imply that he looks nowhere as old as he should for a Hobbit of 111. On the other hand they really wanted Ian Holm for the part, and it's a good choice even if they must go with a somewhate aged Bilbo. Where as Elijah Woods look is fine, even if his personality in Film-FoTR was still too child-like. He's supposed to look like a 33-year-old Hobbit, which is about 21 years for a human, and he's supposed to be "fair" for a Hobbit.<P>In any case, it would be hard for Ian Holm to look and act like what would be the equivalent for a human of about late thirtyish for an entirely new film.<P>As for Gandalf, I see no problem there. Hugo Weaving is and will remain for some time to be about right. The implications in the books, especially the Hobbit, is that he does not quite look like a pure Elf but rather a Man in his prime, which in that sense might mean mid-to-late thirtyish, or even older in a kingly if not athletic way. What they need to lose is his 5 o'clock shadow!<P>As for the Silmarillion, although multiple movies would make imminent sense, I think those Books provide better fodder for a Motion Picture. In some cases as far as dialogue would go, it would be an original screenplay. The problems of Adaption would be far less, and the scope for totally far-out special effects much broader. That's the work that I think Mr. Jackson was made for, and might have best preceded the current LoTR production. __________________ The hoes unrecked in the fields were flung, __ and fallen ladders in the long grass lay __ of the lush orchards; every tree there turned __ its tangled head and eyed them secretly, __ and the ears listened of the nodding grasses; __ though noontide glowed on land and leaf, __ their limbs were chilled.

12-20-2002, 10:31 AM	#17
Keneldil the Polka-dot Wight Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 128	The Hobbit--yes. Provided it is recreated as faithfully as possible. It is a simpler, stand alone type story, no reason or excuse why it couldn't be done right.<P>The Silmarillion--no. I shudder to think of the butchery one of my favorite books since childhood would undergo. Changes would be inevitable since the Silmarillion does not lend itself to a movie style story line. Now maybe a made for DVD collection of the stories in the Sil. as individuals with as little editorial alteration as possible....that I would like to see. __________________ "Trust in the ball Jake.....and throw yourself."

12-20-2002, 11:14 AM	#18
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> In any case, it would be hard for Ian Holm to look and act like what would be the equivalent for a human of about late thirtyish for an entirely new film.<P> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I thought Bilbo ws 50 or so at the begining of the Hobbit.<P><BR>you may well be right about a Silmarillion series instead of movie.<P>I would also only want it done if it was to the letter [ of our groups project of course ]<P>PJ 'ish 'adaptations would be worse than nothing I think.<P>But imagine the grandenesws of Valinor done right! or the Silmarills or the 2 lamps and 2 trees! <P>It could potentially blow the LotR away. __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

12-21-2002, 04:40 PM	#19
Novlamothien Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: A white, wintry wonderland-in the South!! Posts: 75	Lindil- I think Man of the World was talking in human equivalents. <BR> I do think the Hobbit would make a good movie, but only if it was done by PJ or somone with as much respect of Tolkien's works as he. You could even bring in Legolas and give him a small part during the time they are at the Thrandul's halls. (He is, after all, Legolas' father)<BR> Silmarillion- I don't know. It would be hard, because even if only one story was done it would be difficult to explain things that had gone on before. <BR> Namarie __________________ "He said if I had the cheek to make verses about Earendil in the house of Elrond that was my affair." ~Bilbo~