TTT - How one purist manages to enjoy a 'mutatilated' story line - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

**lindil** · 12-19-2002, 06:07 PM

Ok here is my secret for relative TTT serenity.PJ is not really doing JRRT's TTT he is doing some obscure HoME volume that was never released. This way I can have my cake [the canonical books] and eat it [ the movie] too. there is my 2 bits of 'lembas bread' any other coping mechanisms of fellow purists?sorry PJ fans and 'movie canonists' make your own threads

Oliphaunt · 12-19-2002, 06:10 PM

I found it hard to enjoy. I thought Sam said it best when he said "we don't belong here Mr. Frodo" in Osgiliath.

Diamond18 · 12-19-2002, 06:14 PM

I plan on telling myself that Faramir is just having an out of body experience and will hopefully be back in time for RotK. Also, I will chant PJ's quote (or something like it) "TTT departs from the book the most" in my mind. So I can't say he didn't warn me, and RotK is bound to be better.Other than Faramir I really use the ever handy, "This is fanfiction" mantra and it works pretty good.

Kalimac · 12-19-2002, 06:23 PM

Diamond, I'm in complete agreement about the fanfic (one of the very rare good ones, naturally). Lindil, the obscure volume of ME history works as well - oddly enough, that scene where Frodo gets pulled into the Dead Marshes actually was pretty close to one of Tolkien's original drafts where the Dead are clawing out and trying to pull him in. I really, really enjoyed the movie (having been forewarned about Faramir, and thank God for that, because I love him in the book). And say what you will, the story holds together as a movie really well - one of my friends who's never read a line of LOTR thought it was fantastic and also thought that Faramir was getting in touch with his good side at the end. Knowing that TTT departs the most is a great comfort, as well. And as I've already said about Faramir...as long he behaves in ROTK, all will be forgiven.[ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: Kalimac ]

Orual · 12-19-2002, 08:33 PM

With all the channelling that goes on in this movie, I'm just assuming that Faramir is channelling Boromir. That's all it is. (Although I do like the HoME theory...)LoL, Diamond, I'm doing the fanfic mantra too. At least there are no Mary Sues! /tries not to think about Arwen/Other than that, I guess I could try to forget that it was supposed to be based on anything by Tolkien. That it just happens to have the same name and the same characters (sort of). It's really totally different.Really.~*~Orual~*~

Sleeping Beauty · 12-19-2002, 10:46 PM

ewww......Mary Sue's. *shudders* As far as the movie goes, I store my memories of Tolkien's world in a closet out of the way where I can't see it while I'm trying to watch the movie. Or else I'm sitting there cringing...But I do have to say I have to add some of PJ's work to my Tolkien memory banks. Sean Bean's portrayal of Boromir was the best. It really made him go from 2d to 3d.But I do agree, it's like reading a fanfic. Which is sad to say considering I just saw a glorified fanfic some call Star Trek - Nememis...[ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: Sleeping Beauty ]

Pukel-Man · 12-20-2002, 03:29 PM

If I had never read the books I would have to say it was a good entertaining movie but....having read the books at least 40 times I had trouble containing my frustration. I nearly screamed obsenities at several points last night during the film. At the end of the film I sat there feeling somewhat cheated like as if I had gone to a store to return an item only to realize that the receipt was missing and I won't be getting my money back. But after sleeping on it I realize that you pretty much have to check your brain at the door and hopefully spend three hours being entertained, And be happy that someone took a shot at making this treasured story into a move for us to see. Think about it, up to this point the only thing we had visually were words, paintings and those "cartoons"- all crap except "The Hobbit". Some in other forums complain that the movies are made for the fans and should hold true the story. Fans of what? Tolkien? or fantasy adventure movies? Or both? If you had never read the books and went saw the movies you would think that both of them were pretty damn good. Although even with that in mind I can't explain the transformation of Gimli as the dour, surly dwarven warrior in LOTR to "The comic of Kahzad-dum" Where the hell did that come from? I'm sure a number of you have seen "Conan the Barbarian" that was a pretty good movie but how many of you out there have read the original Howard book that the movie was adapted from?-prob. not too many of you. I was pretty annoyed when that movie came out too because it strayed so far from the book. But think about it my fellow obsessors-just how many fantasy films dose Hollywood give us these days? How many good watchable NEW fantasy films have you seen lately? Be thankfull that we don't have to sit through "Beastmaster 3" or something just as unpleasant this time of year. Whew! sorry about the long-winded commentary. For someone who hardly posts (but is always watching) that was exhausting. Anyway, I must return to the paths of the dead.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 12-21-2002, 05:33 PM

I don't treat the movies as the books. That's my recipe. (sorry about using the word 'recipe', I can't think of a better one just now.

Marileangorifurnimaluim · 12-22-2002, 06:47 AM

I've been using the 'he said this one has the most changes...' line myself. This was a very strange movie, paced oddly. How did Amon Hen turn out to be a more powerful battle scene than Helm's Deep? You could use the "well, it's better than Ralph Bakshi's" line, too.-Maril

mark12_30 · 12-22-2002, 10:24 AM

"There's no law against producing Alternate Universe Fanfiction. There's no law against producing Alternate Universe Fanfiction. Ther's no law..."And if, by contrast, an AUFanfic is of high enough quality that it makes me go back to the books and re-examine my original beloved heroes until I see them in a clearer light-- which is what FrodoLijah did for me in the first movie-- then, in the end, I benefit.Overall, I really enjoyed the movie. I've already been twice. I'll be going back several more times. Many more times. I'll pre-order the Extended Collectors' DVD.And the hopefully-civilised, hopefully-not-too-heated debates with all my LOTR friends sure are fun. I've gotten to know some folks I wouldn't have otherwise because of these movies. I had a very pleasant Faramir-debate with my assistant pastor today in church, and we'll be going to see the movie together, I think. Oh, and the sound-man joined in too. And my husband got an invitation from another couple, whom we took to see FOTR... "Take us to see TTT please." So it's good. Debates are good. And AUFanfic is... is... well, it's okay. Yeah. It's okay. As long as it's understood as such. It's pretty okay. Really. (Rewind. Replay.)

Bêthberry · 12-22-2002, 11:33 AM

Helen, if memory serves me correctly, it was you who described PJ's work as fanfic, and that is I think a great addition to discussion here.I would take issue, however, with your defense of alternate universe stuff. Everything you say is of course quite acceptable in itself about AUFF, but the problem here is that PJ did not coin his own titles. He did not provide extensive enough alternative vision to qualify as an exploration on its own right. He's riding coattails when he should cut bait. Maril, amen to your Ralph Bakshi line. In humour lies snatches of sanity. Bethberry[ December 22, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ]

12-19-2002, 06:07 PM	#1
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	TTT - How one purist manages to enjoy a 'mutatilated' story line Ok here is my secret for relative TTT serenity.<P>PJ is not really doing JRRT's TTT he is doing some obscure HoME volume that was never released. <P>This way I can have my cake [the canonical books] and eat it [ the movie] too.<P><BR>there is my 2 bits of 'lembas bread' <P>any other coping mechanisms of fellow purists?<P>sorry PJ fans and 'movie canonists' make your own threads __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

12-19-2002, 06:14 PM	#3
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	I plan on telling myself that Faramir is just having an out of body experience and will hopefully be back in time for RotK. Also, I will chant PJ's quote (or something like it) "TTT departs from the book the most" in my mind. So I can't say he didn't warn me, and RotK is bound to be better.<P>Other than Faramir I really use the ever handy, "This is fanfiction" mantra and it works pretty good. __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

12-19-2002, 06:23 PM	#4
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	Diamond, I'm in complete agreement about the fanfic (one of the very rare good ones, naturally). Lindil, the obscure volume of ME history works as well - oddly enough, that scene where Frodo gets pulled into the Dead Marshes actually was pretty close to one of Tolkien's original drafts where the Dead are clawing out and trying to pull him in. I really, really enjoyed the movie (having been forewarned about Faramir, and thank God for that, because I love him in the book). And say what you will, the story holds together as a movie really well - one of my friends who's never read a line of LOTR thought it was fantastic and also thought that Faramir was getting in touch with his good side at the end. Knowing that TTT departs the most is a great comfort, as well. And as I've already said about Faramir...as long he behaves in ROTK, all will be forgiven.<p>[ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: Kalimac ] __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

12-19-2002, 08:33 PM	#5
Orual Speaker of the Dead Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Superbia Posts: 868	With all the channelling that goes on in this movie, I'm just assuming that Faramir is channelling Boromir. That's all it is. (Although I do like the HoME theory...)<P>LoL, Diamond, I'm doing the fanfic mantra too. At least there are no Mary Sues! /tries not to think about Arwen/<P>Other than that, I guess I could try to forget that it was supposed to be based on anything by Tolkien. That it just happens to have the same name and the same characters (sort of). It's really totally different.<P>Really.<P>~~Orual~~ __________________ "Oh, my god! I care so little, I almost passed out!" --Dr. Cox, "Scrubs"

12-19-2002, 10:46 PM	#6
Sleeping Beauty Wight Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Somewhere between the back of the chair and the monitor Posts: 115	ewww......Mary Sue's. shudders As far as the movie goes, I store my memories of Tolkien's world in a closet out of the way where I can't see it while I'm trying to watch the movie. Or else I'm sitting there cringing...But I do have to say I have to add some of PJ's work to my Tolkien memory banks. Sean Bean's portrayal of Boromir was the best. It really made him go from 2d to 3d.<P>But I do agree, it's like reading a fanfic. Which is sad to say considering I just saw a glorified fanfic some call Star Trek - Nememis...<p>[ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: Sleeping Beauty ] __________________ "If I knew all of the answers, I'd run for God." ~ Klinger: MAS*H

12-19-2002, 06:10 PM	#2
Oliphaunt Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 48	I found it hard to enjoy. I thought Sam said it best when he said "we don't belong here Mr. Frodo" in Osgiliath.

12-20-2002, 03:29 PM	#7
Pukel-Man Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona, -East of Dunharrow Posts: 54	If I had never read the books I would have to say it was a good entertaining movie but....having read the books at least 40 times I had trouble containing my frustration. I nearly screamed obsenities at several points last night during the film. At the end of the film I sat there feeling somewhat cheated like as if I had gone to a store to return an item only to realize that the receipt was missing and I won't be getting my money back. But after sleeping on it I realize that you pretty much have to check your brain at the door and hopefully spend three hours being entertained, And be happy that someone took a shot at making this treasured story into a move for us to see. Think about it, up to this point the only thing we had visually were words, paintings and those "cartoons"- all crap except "The Hobbit". Some in other forums complain that the movies are made for the fans and should hold true the story. Fans of what? Tolkien? or fantasy adventure movies? Or both? If you had never read the books and went saw the movies you would think that both of them were pretty damn good. Although even with that in mind I can't explain the transformation of Gimli as the dour, surly dwarven warrior in LOTR to "The comic of Kahzad-dum" Where the hell did that come from?<BR> I'm sure a number of you have seen "Conan the Barbarian" that was a pretty good movie but how many of you out there have read the original Howard book that the movie was adapted from?-prob. not too many of you. I was pretty annoyed when that movie came out too because it strayed so far from the book. But think about it my fellow obsessors-just how many fantasy films dose Hollywood give us these days? How many good watchable NEW fantasy films have you seen lately? Be thankfull that we don't have to sit through "Beastmaster 3" or something just as unpleasant this time of year.<BR> Whew! sorry about the long-winded commentary. For someone who hardly posts (but is always watching) that was exhausting. Anyway, I must return to the paths of the dead. __________________ This is not the time or the place to perform some kind of a half-assed autopsy on a fish... And I'm not going to stand here and see that thing cut open and see that little Kintner boy spill out all over the dock!-Mayor Vaughn

12-21-2002, 05:33 PM	#8
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	I don't treat the movies as the books. That's my recipe. (sorry about using the word 'recipe', I can't think of a better one just now. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

12-22-2002, 06:47 AM	#9
Marileangorifurnimaluim Eerie Forest Spectre Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Buried in scrolls of fanfiction Posts: 798	I've been using the 'he said this one has the most changes...' line myself. This was a very strange movie, paced oddly. How did Amon Hen turn out to be a more powerful battle scene than Helm's Deep? <P>You could use the "well, it's better than Ralph Bakshi's" line, too.<P>-Maril __________________ Deserves death! I daresay he does... And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them?

12-22-2002, 10:24 AM	#10
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	"There's no law against producing Alternate Universe Fanfiction. There's no law against producing Alternate Universe Fanfiction. Ther's no law..."<P>And if, by contrast, an AUFanfic is of high enough quality that it makes me go back to the books and re-examine my original beloved heroes until I see them in a clearer light-- which is what FrodoLijah did for me in the first movie-- then, in the end, I benefit.<P>Overall, I really enjoyed the movie. I've already been twice. I'll be going back several more times. Many more times. I'll pre-order the Extended Collectors' DVD.<P>And the hopefully-civilised, hopefully-not-too-heated debates with all my LOTR friends sure are fun. I've gotten to know some folks I wouldn't have otherwise because of these movies. I had a very pleasant Faramir-debate with my assistant pastor today in church, and we'll be going to see the movie together, I think. Oh, and the sound-man joined in too. And my husband got an invitation from another couple, whom we took to see FOTR... "Take us to see TTT please." <P>So it's good. Debates are good. <P>And AUFanfic is... is... well, it's okay. Yeah. It's okay. As long as it's understood as such. It's pretty okay. Really. <P>(Rewind. Replay.) __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

12-22-2002, 11:33 AM	#11
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,996	<B>Helen</B>, if memory serves me correctly, it was you who described PJ's work as fanfic, and that is I think a great addition to discussion here.<P>I would take issue, however, with your defense of alternate universe stuff. Everything you say is of course quite acceptable in itself about AUFF, but the problem here is that PJ did not coin his own titles. He did not provide extensive enough <B>alternative</B> vision to qualify as an exploration on its own right. He's riding coattails when he should cut bait.<P><BR><B>Maril</B>, amen to your Ralph Bakshi line. In humour lies snatches of sanity. <P>Bethberry<p>[ December 22, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ] __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.