translation of "The Fall of Gil-galad" - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Roccotari Eldandil · 06-18-2003, 10:32 PM

I was re-reading FotR the other day, and I came across the part in "A Knife in the Dark" where Sam says some of a poem about Gil-galad. Reading on, Aragorn says that this poem was in "an ancient tongue." So I thought, maybe that was Quenya. And now to my point: I tried translating it into Quenya, and I'd very much appreciate it if you would offer your critique. I'm still learning so I'm most likely wrong on stuff like grammar. Also, I had to kind of derive some stuff, see bottom for notes on weird words. Here it is (English then Quenya):

Gil-galad was an Elven-king.
Of him the harpers sadly sing:
the last whose realm was fair and free
between the Mountains and the Sea.

His sword was long, his lance was keen,
his shining helm afar was seen;
the countless stars of heaven’s field
were mirrored in his silver shield.

But long ago he rode away,
and where he dwelleth none can say;
for into darkness fell his star
in Mordor where the shadows are.

Elen-cálë né Eldaron aran.
Sen i tyalangani úvalinavë lindar:
ardarya né i telda ëa vanya ar léra
imbë i Oronti ar i Eär.

Macilerya né anda, ehterya né laica,
sílala cassarya háya né cenna;
i únótimë eleni Menelwa pelero
ner naltaina mi silma turmarya.

Mal anda yá nornë sinomello
ar yasse mára laquén polë quetë;
an morniesse lantane elenerya
Mornóressë yassë i fuini ëar.

Elen-cále: Gil-galad (starlight)
né: past tense of ná (read something about this somewhere)
sen: se "he" plus dative ending. so this is really "to him" rather than "for him" because I couldn't find a word that would connotate the right kind of "of" (i.e. about.)
úvalinave: ú=negative prefix, valin=happy, ave="-ly"
3rd line: this is super-weird. couldn't find words for an exact translation, so I ended up saying "his realm was the last to be (ëa used as infinitive) fair and free"
I derived my own verb "nalta-" from the word for "glittering reflection," which I unfortunately can't remember now and am too lazy to look up (sorry!). NOTE: for all derivations, I don't have the Etymologies, so these aren't taken from roots, just pulled out of Quenya words and my own twisted brain.
anda yá: long+ago. grammar probably wrong, please help!
EDIT 6/23: nornë: "rode" taken from guessed verb "nor-", found in Sindarin command "Noro lim!"; I figured the verb might be the same in Quenya.
sinomello: no word for "away" so I used "from this place."
láquén: lá- "not"+quén "person" so literally "not a [single] person"=no one?
Mornóre: Mordor as it might appear in Quenya.
ëar: plural of ëa.

If you got through all that and are still awake enough to critique, post away!

[ June 23, 2003: Message edited by: Roccotari Eldandil ]

[ June 23, 2003: Message edited by: Roccotari Eldandil ]

Elrowen Greenleaf · 06-23-2003, 02:43 PM

I must say that I know practically nothing about Quenya, (working on learning Sindarin), but I think you did a good job. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I'm not sure if it is Quenya, but in the books (& Arwen in the movie) say. "Noro lim Asfaloth." Noro lim I'm pretty sure means "ride fast" or something like that.

Typically I'll see "horse" shortend... (Sindarin again, but it's an idea)... Like Rochan became Rohan ect. ect. ect.

Hope that helps. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

-Elrowen

[ June 23, 2003: Message edited by: Elrowen Greenleaf ]

Roccotari Eldandil · 06-23-2003, 08:58 PM

hmm... I hadn't thought about "noro lim." That line is in Sindarin, but the verb stem might be the same-- so maybe "rode" should be "nornë". Or, if "rocco" (horse) is shortend maybe it's rocnë. I think I like nornë better, I'll add that change. Thank you!!!
P.S. I like the pic under your name. Those animated things are awesome.

Adastrea · 06-24-2003, 07:45 AM

Well, most Quenya speakers seem to have vanished since the close of the (primarily)Elvish forum (and I know I am guilty of not popping in in a looooong time!) But The council of Elrond still has an Elvish forum. Ardalambion.com has the BEST Quenya course, and I believe some links to dictionaries. I will pop off and try and find a link to the dictionary I use. I'll have a look through your translation.
Adastrea

Roccotari Eldandil · 06-24-2003, 02:50 PM

What's the address for the council of Elrond website? I can't find it.
The Ardalambion course is definitely awesome (actually, that's where I'm learning from).

Adastrea · 07-07-2003, 01:52 PM

Its www.councilofelrond.com here is the dictionary link for you: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shad.../4101/e-q.html
I can't find anything too wrong with your translation and the dictionary link will help you sort out your made up bits. Hope that helps!

[ July 07, 2003: Message edited by: Adastrea ]

Dimaldaeon · 07-11-2003, 03:50 PM

Strangely enough I once translated The Fall of Gil-Galad into Gaeilge.

Bhí Gil-Galad rí na Críonna...

Oh well I won't bore you with the rest

06-18-2003, 10:32 PM	#1
Roccotari Eldandil Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: the stables of Lorien Posts: 79	translation of "The Fall of Gil-galad" I was re-reading FotR the other day, and I came across the part in "A Knife in the Dark" where Sam says some of a poem about Gil-galad. Reading on, Aragorn says that this poem was in "an ancient tongue." So I thought, maybe that was Quenya. And now to my point: I tried translating it into Quenya, and I'd very much appreciate it if you would offer your critique. I'm still learning so I'm most likely wrong on stuff like grammar. Also, I had to kind of derive some stuff, see bottom for notes on weird words. Here it is (English then Quenya): Gil-galad was an Elven-king. Of him the harpers sadly sing: the last whose realm was fair and free between the Mountains and the Sea. His sword was long, his lance was keen, his shining helm afar was seen; the countless stars of heaven’s field were mirrored in his silver shield. But long ago he rode away, and where he dwelleth none can say; for into darkness fell his star in Mordor where the shadows are. Elen-cálë né Eldaron aran. Sen i tyalangani úvalinavë lindar: ardarya né i telda ëa vanya ar léra imbë i Oronti ar i Eär. Macilerya né anda, ehterya né laica, sílala cassarya háya né cenna; i únótimë eleni Menelwa pelero ner naltaina mi silma turmarya. Mal anda yá nornë sinomello ar yasse mára laquén polë quetë; an morniesse lantane elenerya Mornóressë yassë i fuini ëar. Elen-cále: Gil-galad (starlight) né: past tense of ná (read something about this somewhere) sen: se "he" plus dative ending. so this is really "to him" rather than "for him" because I couldn't find a word that would connotate the right kind of "of" (i.e. about.) úvalinave: ú=negative prefix, valin=happy, ave="-ly" 3rd line: this is super-weird. couldn't find words for an exact translation, so I ended up saying "his realm was the last to be (ëa used as infinitive) fair and free" I derived my own verb "nalta-" from the word for "glittering reflection," which I unfortunately can't remember now and am too lazy to look up (sorry!). NOTE: for all derivations, I don't have the Etymologies, so these aren't taken from roots, just pulled out of Quenya words and my own twisted brain. anda yá: long+ago. grammar probably wrong, please help! EDIT 6/23: nornë: "rode" taken from guessed verb "nor-", found in Sindarin command "Noro lim!"; I figured the verb might be the same in Quenya. sinomello: no word for "away" so I used "from this place." láquén: lá- "not"+quén "person" so literally "not a [single] person"=no one? Mornóre: Mordor as it might appear in Quenya. ëar: plural of ëa. If you got through all that and are still awake enough to critique, post away! [ June 23, 2003: Message edited by: Roccotari Eldandil ] [ June 23, 2003: Message edited by: Roccotari Eldandil ] __________________ "Come, come!" he shouted, swinging his axe. "Since Gandalf's head is now sacred, let us find one that is right to cleave!" -Gimli, after hearing Galadriel's message to him in TTT

06-23-2003, 02:43 PM	#2
Elrowen Greenleaf Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Greenwood the Great Posts: 33	I must say that I know practically nothing about Quenya, (working on learning Sindarin), but I think you did a good job. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I'm not sure if it is Quenya, but in the books (& Arwen in the movie) say. "Noro lim Asfaloth." Noro lim I'm pretty sure means "ride fast" or something like that. Typically I'll see "horse" shortend... (Sindarin again, but it's an idea)... Like Rochan became Rohan ect. ect. ect. Hope that helps. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] -Elrowen [ June 23, 2003: Message edited by: Elrowen Greenleaf ] __________________ "Only the journey is written, not the destination." -Ardeth Bay The bow of Legolas was singing.

06-23-2003, 08:58 PM	#3
Roccotari Eldandil Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: the stables of Lorien Posts: 79	hmm... I hadn't thought about "noro lim." That line is in Sindarin, but the verb stem might be the same-- so maybe "rode" should be "nornë". Or, if "rocco" (horse) is shortend maybe it's rocnë. I think I like nornë better, I'll add that change. Thank you!!! P.S. I like the pic under your name. Those animated things are awesome. __________________ "Come, come!" he shouted, swinging his axe. "Since Gandalf's head is now sacred, let us find one that is right to cleave!" -Gimli, after hearing Galadriel's message to him in TTT

06-24-2003, 07:45 AM	#4
Adastrea Animated Skeleton Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: England Posts: 31	Well, most Quenya speakers seem to have vanished since the close of the (primarily)Elvish forum (and I know I am guilty of not popping in in a looooong time!) But The council of Elrond still has an Elvish forum. Ardalambion.com has the BEST Quenya course, and I believe some links to dictionaries. I will pop off and try and find a link to the dictionary I use. I'll have a look through your translation. Adastrea __________________ "Hail Eärendil, brightest of angels, over Middle Earth sent to men."

06-24-2003, 02:50 PM	#5
Roccotari Eldandil Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: the stables of Lorien Posts: 79	What's the address for the council of Elrond website? I can't find it. The Ardalambion course is definitely awesome (actually, that's where I'm learning from). __________________ "Come, come!" he shouted, swinging his axe. "Since Gandalf's head is now sacred, let us find one that is right to cleave!" -Gimli, after hearing Galadriel's message to him in TTT

07-07-2003, 01:52 PM	#6
Adastrea Animated Skeleton Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: England Posts: 31	Its www.councilofelrond.com here is the dictionary link for you: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shad.../4101/e-q.html I can't find anything too wrong with your translation and the dictionary link will help you sort out your made up bits. Hope that helps! [ July 07, 2003: Message edited by: Adastrea ] __________________ "Hail Eärendil, brightest of angels, over Middle Earth sent to men."

07-11-2003, 03:50 PM	#7
Dimaldaeon Wight Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ireland & damn proud of it. Posts: 125	Strangely enough I once translated The Fall of Gil-Galad into Gaeilge. Bhí Gil-Galad rí na Críonna... Oh well I won't bore you with the rest __________________ Dear Saddam, Do not disunderestimate me.Yours G.W.Bush You're not drunk if you can still hold onto a blade of grass to stop yourself from falling off the face of the Earth