Gildor's origins - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Thingol · 01-12-2002, 09:36 AM

When Frodo, Sam, and Pippin encounter Gildor at the begining of the Fellowship of the Ring he says he is of the house of Finrod. I have never been totally sure of what the phrase "Of the house of" means in Tolkiens work. I always thought that to belong to the house of someone, you had to be related to that person. Ex: Eomer is related to Thingol and is of his house, Aragorn's descendents are of the house of Telchar, Tuor, Turin, Huor, Hurin, are all of the house of Hador and are in the family. In all the genealogies I've looked at, I don't see Gildor's name in association with Finrod's.

Fenrir · 01-12-2002, 01:12 PM

In this case I believe he means that he was an elf of Nargothrond. I've always thought of the "House of" system being rather like the Scots clan system.

Lindolirian · 12-16-2002, 08:29 PM

I believe that he was actually the son of Finrod Felagund. This is never actually stated, but he names himself Gildor Inglorion of the house of Finarfin.

Quote:

In the first edition of LR (Appendices) Finrod was still the name of the third son of Finwë, as in the Quenta Silmarillion , and his son was Felagund (in QS also named Inglor ); it was still not until the second edition of 1966 that Finrod son of Finwë became Finarfin, and his son Inglor Felagund became Finrod Felagund

-Note 9; Ch. 10 (The Attack on Weathertop); The Return of the Shadow, HoME 6.

So if Finrod Felagund was once Inglor Felagund, wouldn't Inglorion mean son of Inglor which is the son of the the first King of Nargothrod? Now you say, "But Felagund had no wife." Perhaps...

Quote:

... for indeed she whom he (Finrod Felagund) had loved was Amarië of the Vanyar...

-Quenta Silmarillion, Ch. 15, Of the Noldor in Beleriand

Maybe he was married to Amarië, or perhaps they were lovers. For whatever reason she did not go into exile with him, I still believe that she bore him at least one son: Gildor.

Manwe Sulimo · 12-16-2002, 10:05 PM

Éomer is descendent of Elves? No way!!

I assume you meant Thengal, right?

Orald · 12-17-2002, 11:28 AM

Inglor could not be Finrod's son. If his wife had given birth to a son, if it was Inglorion or not, he would have become king of Nargothrond and not Orodreth because of the law of primogeniture. Now I know primogeniture was not always the case in Tolkien's works, but he went by it for the most part. However, Inglorion could be the son of one of Finrod's brothers. The -ion ending means scion, which doesn't necessarily mean son, but a descendant or heir.

Another thing, Telchar was a dwarf, not a lord of men. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Lindolirian · 12-17-2002, 05:34 PM

True but perhaps, he was a rebellious son and was angry at his father for leaving his mother, even though he came along too, and didn't live with him. He could have lived with the sons of Feanor or in Gondolin, I think. Of course this is all speculation, and I just think Gildor would be way cooler if he was Felagund's son.

Arwen Melian · 12-17-2002, 06:26 PM

I think maybe this Eomer was the one whom the rohirrim Eomer was named after...thats all I could think of..correct me if I'm wrong though. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Orald · 12-18-2002, 06:30 PM

Eomer is of Thengel's house, not Thingol's. There is a pretty big difference there.

01-12-2002, 09:36 AM	#1
Thingol Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 259	Gildor's origins When Frodo, Sam, and Pippin encounter Gildor at the begining of the Fellowship of the Ring he says he is of the house of Finrod. I have never been totally sure of what the phrase "Of the house of" means in Tolkiens work. I always thought that to belong to the house of someone, you had to be related to that person. Ex: Eomer is related to Thingol and is of his house, Aragorn's descendents are of the house of Telchar, Tuor, Turin, Huor, Hurin, are all of the house of Hador and are in the family. In all the genealogies I've looked at, I don't see Gildor's name in association with Finrod's. __________________ Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days.

01-12-2002, 01:12 PM	#2
Fenrir Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nevrast Posts: 103	In this case I believe he means that he was an elf of Nargothrond. I've always thought of the "House of" system being rather like the Scots clan system. __________________ Fearlessness is better than a faint-heart for any man who puts his nose out of doors. The length of my life and the day of my death were fated long ago.

12-16-2002, 10:05 PM	#4
Manwe Sulimo Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Taurelilómëa-tumbalemorna Tumbaletaurëa Lómëanor Posts: 553	Éomer is descendent of Elves? No way!! I assume you meant Thengal, right? __________________ "Monkeys learn sign language so they can tell the dolphins they love them."

12-17-2002, 05:34 PM	#6
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,117	True but perhaps, he was a rebellious son and was angry at his father for leaving his mother, even though he came along too, and didn't live with him. He could have lived with the sons of Feanor or in Gondolin, I think. Of course this is all speculation, and I just think Gildor would be way cooler if he was Felagund's son. __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

12-17-2002, 06:26 PM	#7
Arwen Melian Wight Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sometimes Imladris....sometimes Mirkwood...other times ....Lothlorien Posts: 141	I think maybe this Eomer was the one whom the rohirrim Eomer was named after...thats all I could think of..correct me if I'm wrong though. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ Maiden of Rivendell "Anything to get away from the evil monkey in my bedroom." Fine! I admit it. I am a supporter of Agent Elrond. Now would you please leave me be?

12-17-2002, 11:28 AM	#5
Orald Shadow of Malice Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: right behind you Posts: 843	Inglor could not be Finrod's son. If his wife had given birth to a son, if it was Inglorion or not, he would have become king of Nargothrond and not Orodreth because of the law of primogeniture. Now I know primogeniture was not always the case in Tolkien's works, but he went by it for the most part. However, Inglorion could be the son of one of Finrod's brothers. The -ion ending means scion, which doesn't necessarily mean son, but a descendant or heir. Another thing, Telchar was a dwarf, not a lord of men. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

12-18-2002, 06:30 PM	#8
Orald Shadow of Malice Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: right behind you Posts: 843	Eomer is of Thengel's house, not Thingol's. There is a pretty big difference there.