Just Curious About Wizards - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Rose Cotton · 01-13-2002, 01:09 PM

Where Gandalf and Saruman the only wizards in Middle Earth? I thought there were more. I was wondering because if there were more wizards than shouldn't they have helped Gandalf more?

red · 01-13-2002, 01:25 PM

The following topic was on top when you posted your question. Just think if you had read it first... but then that is just too easy. Follow this link to the wizard discussion.

-red

[ January 13, 2002: Message edited by: red ]

zifnab · 01-13-2002, 01:35 PM

They're were more Istari/wizards then just Gandalf and Saruman. Radagast was one, who loved all beasts and birds. He was a friend to Gandalf/Mithrandir.

Legolas · 01-13-2002, 03:09 PM

There were 5 wizards in Middle Earth, with the 3 you didn't mention being Radagast the Brown, and Alatar and Pallando, the Blue Wizards.

Originally, the Valar planned to send 3 Maiar to Middle-eEarth - Curumo (Saruman), Alatar, and Olorin (Gandalf) - in that order. Yavanna persuaded them to send a fourth, being Aiwendil (Radagast). Alatar insisted on bringing along his friend, Pallando, rounding out the five we are aware of today.

Aiwendil means 'bird-lover.' Radagast lived in Rhosgobel on the outskirts of Mirkwood. He enjoyed nature and took care of many creatures...I'm guessing he was pretty laidback. Saruman tricks Radagast into luring his friend Gandalf to Orthanc in LOTR. Gandalf also mentions Radagast to Beorn in the Hobbit, referring to him as his cousin.

Alatar and Pallando are referred to as the Blue Wizards because they wore sea-blue clothing. The northwest region of Middle-earth is the only part that is covered in Tolkien's books. We know very little about the other lands. Early on (long before Hobbit/LOTR), Saruman, Alatar, and Pallando ventured off into the east. Saruman (obviously) returned, but the other two did not. Because of this, Alatar and Pallando did not have names in the languages of northwest Middle-earth. It's not known what became of these two after they went into the east.

"What success they [Alatar and Pallando] had I do not know; but I fear they failed, as Saruman did, though doubtless in different ways; and I suspect they were the founders or beginners of secret cults and 'magic' traditions that outlasted the fall of Sauron." (The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, No. 211).

Rose Cotton · 01-15-2002, 06:23 AM

Thanks for the information! That explains alot. But after Gandalf meets Radagast in The Fellowship he dosn't do anything else. IT seams like he dosn't care if Sauron takes over by the amount of help he provides.

Cirdan the Shipwright · 01-16-2002, 08:07 AM

I think the role of Radagast is vastly understated in the books. In his role as Yavanna's representative, he seems to have taken on the task of the Istari's chief communications officer. Have you ever wondered, for example, how so many messages were passed over such far distances? In particular, how come the eagles always showed up at just the right moment in every story? I think Radagast had more to do with these events then is mentioned.

- Cirdan / Maglor68

Perethil · 01-16-2002, 10:57 AM

I think there could be something there actually... maybe he wasnt as useless as he is described. i am personally fascinated by the blue wizards though, and i think that in the very little that Tolkien says about them, he gives us much more room for imagination. the lost two wizards provide a good base for future story development.

The Mirrorball Man · 01-16-2002, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Perethil:
the lost two wizards provide a good base for future story development.

I always wondered if Pallando and Alatar's real mission was to look for the remaining Moriquendi and send them to Aman...

Carannillion · 01-16-2002, 04:38 PM

VERY interesting thought. It opens up a whole new world; where were the 'eastern' or 'southern' elves, if indeed there were any left? How was their relationship with the eastern tribes of men? Perhaps they have their own, separate society, fighting the remains of Melkor's forces from Utumno, trading with the Haradrim and so on. These elves were perhaps the ones Melkor took and corrupted into orcs? (mentioned in another post as well..) Do these elves have the same physical appearance as the ones we know?

This opens up a whole new world, where everything is left for the reader to decide. Presuming, of course, that Tolkien did not write anything about it...

01-13-2002, 01:09 PM	#1
Rose Cotton Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: A place worse then Mordor........School! Posts: 1,075	Just Curious About Wizards Where Gandalf and Saruman the only wizards in Middle Earth? I thought there were more. I was wondering because if there were more wizards than shouldn't they have helped Gandalf more? __________________ "There's nothing you can do, Harry... nothing... he's gone."-Remus Lupin "The closer we are to danger, the further we are from harm."-Pippin (now how can you argue with that logic?)

01-13-2002, 01:25 PM	#2
red Spirit of Mischief Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Land of the free and home of the brave Posts: 366	The following topic was on top when you posted your question. Just think if you had read it first... but then that is just too easy. Follow this link to the wizard discussion. -red [ January 13, 2002: Message edited by: red ] __________________ "Cats are like greatness: Some people are born into cat-loving families, some achieve cats, and some have cats thrust upon them." -William H. A. Carr

01-13-2002, 01:35 PM	#3
zifnab Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: omni-presence Posts: 329	They're were more Istari/wizards then just Gandalf and Saruman. Radagast was one, who loved all beasts and birds. He was a friend to Gandalf/Mithrandir. __________________ Facebook.

01-13-2002, 03:09 PM	#4
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	There were 5 wizards in Middle Earth, with the 3 you didn't mention being Radagast the Brown, and Alatar and Pallando, the Blue Wizards. Originally, the Valar planned to send 3 Maiar to Middle-eEarth - Curumo (Saruman), Alatar, and Olorin (Gandalf) - in that order. Yavanna persuaded them to send a fourth, being Aiwendil (Radagast). Alatar insisted on bringing along his friend, Pallando, rounding out the five we are aware of today. Aiwendil means 'bird-lover.' Radagast lived in Rhosgobel on the outskirts of Mirkwood. He enjoyed nature and took care of many creatures...I'm guessing he was pretty laidback. Saruman tricks Radagast into luring his friend Gandalf to Orthanc in LOTR. Gandalf also mentions Radagast to Beorn in the Hobbit, referring to him as his cousin. Alatar and Pallando are referred to as the Blue Wizards because they wore sea-blue clothing. The northwest region of Middle-earth is the only part that is covered in Tolkien's books. We know very little about the other lands. Early on (long before Hobbit/LOTR), Saruman, Alatar, and Pallando ventured off into the east. Saruman (obviously) returned, but the other two did not. Because of this, Alatar and Pallando did not have names in the languages of northwest Middle-earth. It's not known what became of these two after they went into the east. "What success they [Alatar and Pallando] had I do not know; but I fear they failed, as Saruman did, though doubtless in different ways; and I suspect they were the founders or beginners of secret cults and 'magic' traditions that outlasted the fall of Sauron." (The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, No. 211). __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

01-15-2002, 06:23 AM	#5
Rose Cotton Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: A place worse then Mordor........School! Posts: 1,075	Thanks for the information! That explains alot. But after Gandalf meets Radagast in The Fellowship he dosn't do anything else. IT seams like he dosn't care if Sauron takes over by the amount of help he provides. __________________ "There's nothing you can do, Harry... nothing... he's gone."-Remus Lupin "The closer we are to danger, the further we are from harm."-Pippin (now how can you argue with that logic?)

01-16-2002, 08:07 AM	#6
Cirdan the Shipwright Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 52	I think the role of Radagast is vastly understated in the books. In his role as Yavanna's representative, he seems to have taken on the task of the Istari's chief communications officer. Have you ever wondered, for example, how so many messages were passed over such far distances? In particular, how come the eagles always showed up at just the right moment in every story? I think Radagast had more to do with these events then is mentioned. - Cirdan / Maglor68

01-16-2002, 10:57 AM	#7
Perethil Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Istanbul, Turkey Posts: 21	I think there could be something there actually... maybe he wasnt as useless as he is described. i am personally fascinated by the blue wizards though, and i think that in the very little that Tolkien says about them, he gives us much more room for imagination. the lost two wizards provide a good base for future story development.

01-16-2002, 04:38 PM	#9
Carannillion Wight Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Mici Firya Posts: 135	VERY interesting thought. It opens up a whole new world; where were the 'eastern' or 'southern' elves, if indeed there were any left? How was their relationship with the eastern tribes of men? Perhaps they have their own, separate society, fighting the remains of Melkor's forces from Utumno, trading with the Haradrim and so on. These elves were perhaps the ones Melkor took and corrupted into orcs? (mentioned in another post as well..) Do these elves have the same physical appearance as the ones we know? This opens up a whole new world, where everything is left for the reader to decide. Presuming, of course, that Tolkien did not write anything about it... __________________ A cry for the people, but there's noone there to hear...