What is Beorn?

[Thingol]

What is Beorn? In the hobbit Bilbo calls him a man. Yet he was able to shapeshift into a bear. Something doesn't jive there.

[ January 24, 2002: Message edited by: Thingol ]

[Tar Elenion]

In Letter 144 JRRT said:
"Though a skin-changer and no doubt a bit of a magician, Beorn was a Man."

[Elrian]

He was a man. And also described as the Chieftain of the Beornings and a berserker.

[Rhudladion]

What do you mean something doesn't jive there?

Have you met Ole Tom yet?! This guy sings songs and ghosts run away! Tolkien was great at making things not jive!

[Lindolirian]

Gandalf said that he saw him lookin at the Misty Mt.s sayin that he wanted to go back. And Gandalf also hinted that he might have descended from bears so maybe he's a mix. He's definatley from the Misty Mts. and ya never know what things come from there...

[Elendur]

Wow... I imagined Beorn to be very very old. He said he wanted to go back to the mountains and have it be like before when there were no goblins inhabiting it. So obviously I would conclude that he was there a long while ago when the Misty Mountains were free from Saurons minions. And the fact that Beorn is a furrier.. I cant beleive he is a man.

That doesn't seem right to me at all. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] Men that can shapeshift... what a thing.

[annuncolloion]

Maybe Beorn, was some mix of Numenorean and Wizard. He was a man. He did have some powers that were magical. And he ate honey. maybe bear/wizard/man

[lore_master]

orcs/goblins were originally made by morgothm after the war of wraith, most died but a few survived, then going up to the misty mts, mordor, etc....
so beorn must be fairly old.

[Ancalagon'sFire]

Interesting theory on the Numenorean descendency! I have tried to discover the link and the origin of his skin-changing ability, which might suggest a link to Beren;

Ok, let's look at the Beren - Beorn descendant enigma;

Beren - Luthien = Elured, Elurin and Elwing

Elured, Elurin were both killed in the assault of Doriath by the Sons of Feanor. Neither had children.

Elwing - Earendil = Elrond and Elros

Elrond - Celebrian = Elladan, Elrohir and Arwen

Elladan and Elrohir did not have children, if they did, it was at least until after the arrival of Beorn. Arwen we know married Aragorn.

Elros - Unknown = Vardamir Noliman, Tindomiel, Manwendil and Atanalcar. This line of Numenorians is numerous and is the beginnings of the line of the Dunedain of the North, who may possibly be the link of the early descendents of Beorn.
If Beorn was to be descended through the line of Beren, it could only have been through Elros. However, it is unclear where this could have developed or from whom this ability could have been passed. There is no record of any of the line of Elros ever possessing this ability or even using it. Therefore I would contest that the ability to skin-change was ever actually passed from the lineage of Beren.

One particular reason for this is the fact that Beren never actually change himself into any beast. Though there are some similarities between Beorn and Beren, the main one is the relationship between the Birds and the Beasts of the forests.

Thereafter for four years more Beren wandered still upon Dorthonion, a solitary outlaw; but he became the friend of birds and beasts, and they aided him, and did not betray him, and from that time forth he ate no flesh nor slew any living thing that was not in the service of Morgoth.

Gandalf said to Bilbo about Beorn;

He lives in an oak-wood and has a great wooden house; and as a man he keeps cattle and horses, which are nearly as marvellous as himself. They work for him and talk to him. He does not eat them; neither does he hunt or eat wild animals.

This is where the similarity ends in my opinion.

Beren is not recorded as ever having changed himself into any other shape or skin. This was achieved by the skills of both Felagund and Luthien.

. By the arts of Felagund their own forms and faces were changed into the likeness of Orcs; and thus disguised they came far upon their northward road, and ventured into the western pass, between Ered Wethrin and the highlands of Taur-nu-Fuin.

By the counsel of Huan and the arts of Lúthien he was arrayed now in the have of Draugluin, and she in the winged fell of Thuringwethil. Beren became in all things like a werewolf to look upon, save that in his eyes there shone a spirit grim indeed but clean; and horror was in his glance as he saw upon his flank a bat-like creature clinging with creased wings. Then howling under the moon he leaped down the hill, and the bat wheeled and flittered above him.

These are the only two instances where Beren was changed in form, neither of which has any relation to Bears and neither he managed himself. Therefore I do not believe that this ability was anything to do with Beren at all.
So, where does this leave Beorn? We still can’t answer how he managed to skin-change from Man to Bear.

Gandalf again to Bilbo;

He is a skin-changer. He changes his skin: sometimes he is a huge black bear; sometimes he is a great strong black-haired man with huge arms and a great beard. I cannot tell you much more, though that ought to be enough. Some say that he is a bear descended from the great and ancient bears of the mountains that lived there before the giants came. Others say that he is a man descended from the first men who lived before Smaug or the other dragons came into this part of the world, and before the goblins came into the hills out of the North. I cannot say, though I fancy the last is the true tale.

We cannot doubt either that he is a man, although Gandalf stated;

I once saw him sitting all along on the top of the Carrock at night watching the moon sinking towards the Misty Mountains, and I heard him growl in the tongue of bears: "The day will come when they will perish and I shall go back!" That is why I believe he once came from the mountains himself.'

In addition, Tolkien makes it clear in his letters that Beorn's lifespan was no greater than that of an ordinary Man. It's very unlikely, then, that he survived much beyond TA 3000. (See The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien No 144, dated 1954). In the same letter, Tolkien explains that despite his remarkable abilities, Beorn definitely belonged to the race of Men: 'Though a skin-changer and no doubt a bit of a magician, Beorn was a Man'.

This also dispels the Maia myth that is frequently suggested.

So at least there is some confirmation of the magician theory. Yet it is also clear that Beorn must have been the first of his line or people to have this ability, hence the people being known as Beornings.

Beorn indeed became a great chief afterwards in those regions and ruled a wide land between the mountains and the wood; and it is said that for many generations the men of his line had the power of taking bear's shape, and some were grim men and bad, but most were in heart like Beorn, if less in size and strength. In their day the last goblins were hunted from the Misty Mountains and a new peace came over the edge of the Wild.

My theory is complete speculation; Beorn has no known descendants, though he is from the race of Men. Is it impossible to imagine that Beorn may have been both of Men, yet raised by Bears? He has an intense dislike of Goblins, who may have been responsible for attacking his family home in the mountains of the North. This is not dissimilar to Kiplings, 'Jungle-Book', where Wolves rear the young Mowgli. A book Tolkien would have read as he penned his early thoughts. Beorn could only have learnt his skill from the Bears he was akin too, over years having been in their company, been fed on milk and honey and assuming the ability to control his own form. Possibly Radagast may have had a hand in his upbringing, although this idea is not developed, only that Gandalf says;

'I have heard of you, if you have not heard of me; but perhaps you have heard of my good cousin Radagast who lives near the Southern borders of Mirkwood?''Yes; not a bad fellow as wizards go, I believe. I used to see him now and again,' said Beorn.

I do not believe in the link with Beren, or Beren's genetic ability to skin-change. He was never responsible for his form changing and only managed this by the skills of others and their enchantments upon him. Beorn is skilled in skin-changing; he has a natural ability to do this at will. Only through magic of his own or that of the animals he is akin to can he do this.

That's my line though I am sure many will contest it [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[ January 29, 2003: Message edited by: Ancalagon'sFire ]

[ January 29, 2003: Message edited by: Ancalagon'sFire ]

[Legolas]

Elladan and Elrohir did not have children, if they did, it was at least until after the arrival of Beorn.

I think you mean Elladan and Elrohir did not have children, at least until after the death of Beorn. He died before the War of the Ring.

Beorn has no known descendants

Sure he does. His son was Grimbeorn the Old.

This has also been discussed before on different threads, including one devoted to a theory that he was related to Radagast.

I wrote an article for the Barrow-downs FAQ, complete with forum links. You can read it here until it's loaded on to the main site.

[ January 29, 2003: Message edited by: Legolas ]

[Ancalagon'sFire]

Aha...make that ascendents!! And congrats on an excellent FAQ [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ January 29, 2003: Message edited by: Ancalagon'sFire ]

[Yavanna Kementari]

Very well studied Ancalagon!!!
Though I have only heard of Maia and Vala shape shifting. This is puzzling because Beorn was a man. Mayhap Sir Tolkien wished to further his explaination and did not have a chance [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] But it is fun to try to decode.

At any rate I am stumped?? but that does not mean I stop researching [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
-(~<~>Yavanna

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

I don't think he would have had to be that old, alltogether. In the Hobbit it stated that after the Dwarrow-Goblic War (I really have to stop terming this stuff), for the Mines of Moria, most of the goblins were wiped out, and they had been secretly breeding in the Misty Mountains only in recent years.(which is still a long time) So he didn't need to be ages old, but the topic "Of Beorn," which was started by none other than me, the Keeper, not all too long ago, has some rather keen insights towards his powers.

[Aredhelaran]

I am pretty sure Beorn is old. In The Hobbit they are debating over wht he is. Gandalf in the Hobbit says that there are only two options: either he was a bear descended from the geat or ancient bears, or he was a man. I think he was a man. He woudl have probably preffered to be in bear form if he was really a bear. He was also a very large man. NOt a giant, but still very tall (the fringe of his tunic was a bout 3/1/2 feet off the ground.