Where did the Elves go? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

01-07-2002, 10:34 PM

Throughout LotR it is mentioned that the elves are leaving ME and going over the sea.
And I beleive it is mentioned that when they die they go over the sea. But my question is what is over the sea? How do the elves go there when they die? And why are the elves leaving ME?

Elrian · 01-08-2002, 12:35 AM

They go into the West by the ships of Cirdan, What is called Elvenhome or Valinor is in the West, the Lands of the Valar. The Elves are immortal. and when they die their spirits go to Mandos and they are reformed. You will learn more by reading The Silmarillion about the West and why Elves go there.

Lindolirian · 01-10-2002, 07:13 PM

ya the Sil tells all... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Elrian · 01-11-2002, 12:40 AM

The time of Elves in Middle earth is diminishing and they are going into the West. the Time of Men is coming into being. That is why they are leaving.

Cirdan the Shipwright · 01-11-2002, 04:33 PM

In many ways, Tolkien suggests that being an elf is to be cursed (even the Valar and Maiar share this). They cannot abandon the world, no matter what. They are there until the end of time.

Even when they are slain, their spirits eventually return as a new elf. The closest they can get to escape is by going to Valinor.

- Cirdan / Maglor68

Elrian · 01-11-2002, 11:06 PM

Not always, Miriel wasn't rebodied [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Pippin · 01-12-2002, 03:46 PM

I got a Tolkien book the other day which says the elves sailed to the Undying lands, which was outside the boundries of the globed world. after the last ship sailed, these lands disappeared and were not heard of again save by memory.

01-12-2002, 03:50 PM

so the elves went into space???

[img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

hmph, Pippin, you don't know what you're talking about!

Elrian · 01-13-2002, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trort The Ugly:
<STRONG>so the elves went into space???

[img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

hmph, Pippin, you don't know what you're talking about!</STRONG>

Another dimension, I've read that too.
[img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Pippin · 01-13-2002, 04:43 PM

see Trort, I'm not crazy!

01-13-2002, 10:11 PM

Hey what up in thiis neck of the woods

lomion · 01-26-2002, 11:14 PM

Las Vegas?

01-27-2002, 01:04 AM

so wait. i'm confused. do the elves go to another dimension or to the West to the elvenhome? or both? ... or neither?
and once they go, they can't come back, right?

01-27-2002, 01:48 AM

i forgot something!
why was Galadriel banned from ever going back to the Elvenhome?

The Mirrorball Man · 01-27-2002, 05:23 AM

They don't go to another dimension. They sail to the west, but instead of following a circular path around the globe, they follow a straight way to Valinor, the same way that used to exist when the world was flat. In a way, the whole world of Middle-Earth is round, except for Aman (where Valinor lies) which is still were it always was, on a flat plane. Only Elves can find the Straight Road to the west.

As for Galadriel, she was banned from getting back to Valinor because she left Aman with the other Noldor before the start of the First Age. But eventually she sailed to the west and we must assume that she was forgiven.

But really, if these things interest you, you should read the Silmarillion. You don't want us to tell you the whole story, right? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Elrian · 01-27-2002, 06:52 AM

Valinor was removed from the confines of the world after the Numenorean invasion by Iluvatar.

Aralaithiel · 01-27-2002, 03:15 PM

Galadriel was forgiven and the ban was lifted, especially since she passed the test of the ring & refused it. Hope that helps!
Oh...definitely read the Sil. Wonderful history of the Elves!
Elves rule!!!!!!!!!!

Dáin Ironfoot · 01-27-2002, 08:20 PM

Yes the elves at any time are free to sail when they grow weary of Middle Earth, which is becoming ever more rapid with the Fourth Age and the fullfillment of the dominion of men. Only they can find it thru the ring of isles and all that.

Doesnt the tower hills palantir look to Tol Ereessa?

Aslo, some elves came back to middle earth after they died there once, namely Glorfindel.

In addition, the dwarves also remain until the end, waitng in the Mansions of Aule, for the time when the earth shall be remade and they can add thier voices to the song........

02-06-2002, 03:01 PM

wow!
thanks MB Man and Aralaithiel. clears a bunch of stuff up. and i'm gonna go look for Silmarillian. i heard about it a while ago and was kind of curious. thanks again!

Aralaithiel · 02-06-2002, 03:20 PM

Glad to be of service! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Lush · 02-06-2002, 04:25 PM

Yes, the elves go into the West and are never heard from again, but Tolkien was just kidding when he wrote that Legolas sailed down the Anduin, into the Sea, and so into Valinor. In fact, after he was done dealing with the threat of Sauron and the silly orcs and whatnot, Legolas came straight to my place. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
Sorry sorry sorry, I know that these discussions are meant to be advanced, but I couldn't resist.
I do, actually, have a legitimate question: When it's time for the world to be rebuilt, are the elves part of that? Or are they not allowed to leave Valinor ever again, even though the world is made anew?

02-07-2002, 07:58 AM

The Elves do not go to Valinor after departing from Middle-Earth. That right has been taken away from them since the days of Feanor as spoken in the Doom of Mandos.

Tol Eressea is now the new home of the Noldor and Sindar should they choose to follow the call of the Valars and head West. Of all the lands, it lays nearest to Valinor and from the Tower of Avallone, the elves can still see the the Undying Land which they are forbiddened to enter.

Voronwe · 02-07-2002, 11:09 AM

From the Silmarillion:

Quote:

And when they came into the West the Elves of Beleriand dwelt upon Tol Eressëa, the Lonely Isle, that looks both west and east; whence they might come even to Valinor.

The Elves were allowed back to Valinor, though many of them still chose to live on Tol Eressëa.

Turning to Lush's question, it is the Elves' estel (hope) that they will be part of Arda Remade. The 'Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth' in Morgoth's Ring deals with these things in detail.

02-08-2002, 05:49 AM

Thank you Voronwe for correcting me. This is truly a good place to gather to learn more about Tolkien's work.

[ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: Nuinwathion ]

01-07-2002, 10:34 PM	#1
TekPhin Guest Posts: n/a	Where did the Elves go? Throughout LotR it is mentioned that the elves are leaving ME and going over the sea. And I beleive it is mentioned that when they die they go over the sea. But my question is what is over the sea? How do the elves go there when they die? And why are the elves leaving ME?

01-08-2002, 12:35 AM	#2
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	They go into the West by the ships of Cirdan, What is called Elvenhome or Valinor is in the West, the Lands of the Valar. The Elves are immortal. and when they die their spirits go to Mandos and they are reformed. You will learn more by reading The Silmarillion about the West and why Elves go there. __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

01-10-2002, 07:13 PM	#3
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,117	ya the Sil tells all... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

01-11-2002, 12:40 AM	#4
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	The time of Elves in Middle earth is diminishing and they are going into the West. the Time of Men is coming into being. That is why they are leaving. __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

01-11-2002, 11:06 PM	#6
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	Not always, Miriel wasn't rebodied [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

01-11-2002, 04:33 PM	#5
Cirdan the Shipwright Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 52	In many ways, Tolkien suggests that being an elf is to be cursed (even the Valar and Maiar share this). They cannot abandon the world, no matter what. They are there until the end of time. Even when they are slain, their spirits eventually return as a new elf. The closest they can get to escape is by going to Valinor. - Cirdan / Maglor68

01-12-2002, 03:46 PM	#7
Pippin Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: I don't know, I'm lost! Posts: 85	I got a Tolkien book the other day which says the elves sailed to the Undying lands, which was outside the boundries of the globed world. after the last ship sailed, these lands disappeared and were not heard of again save by memory. __________________ never mind the pint.... does it come in gallons???

01-12-2002, 03:50 PM	#8
matt Guest Posts: n/a	so the elves went into space??? [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] hmph, Pippin, you don't know what you're talking about!

01-13-2002, 04:43 PM	#10
Pippin Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: I don't know, I'm lost! Posts: 85	see Trort, I'm not crazy! __________________ never mind the pint.... does it come in gallons???

01-13-2002, 10:11 PM	#11
GANDALF@ Guest Posts: n/a	Hey what up in thiis neck of the woods

01-26-2002, 11:14 PM	#12
lomion Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Peoria, Il. Posts: 38	Las Vegas?

01-27-2002, 01:04 AM	#13
Rayne Guest Posts: n/a	so wait. i'm confused. do the elves go to another dimension or to the West to the elvenhome? or both? ... or neither? and once they go, they can't come back, right?

01-27-2002, 01:48 AM	#14
Rayne Guest Posts: n/a	i forgot something! why was Galadriel banned from ever going back to the Elvenhome?

01-27-2002, 05:23 AM	#15
The Mirrorball Man Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Switzerland Posts: 57	They don't go to another dimension. They sail to the west, but instead of following a circular path around the globe, they follow a straight way to Valinor, the same way that used to exist when the world was flat. In a way, the whole world of Middle-Earth is round, except for Aman (where Valinor lies) which is still were it always was, on a flat plane. Only Elves can find the Straight Road to the west. As for Galadriel, she was banned from getting back to Valinor because she left Aman with the other Noldor before the start of the First Age. But eventually she sailed to the west and we must assume that she was forgiven. But really, if these things interest you, you should read the Silmarillion. You don't want us to tell you the whole story, right? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ "It was only a glimpse then, but you might have caught the glimpse, if you had ever thought it worthwhile to try."

01-27-2002, 06:52 AM	#16
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	Valinor was removed from the confines of the world after the Numenorean invasion by Iluvatar. __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

01-27-2002, 03:15 PM	#17
Aralaithiel Ghost Eldaran Queen Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A remote mountain in Valinor Posts: 353	Galadriel was forgiven and the ban was lifted, especially since she passed the test of the ring & refused it. Hope that helps! Oh...definitely read the Sil. Wonderful history of the Elves! Elves rule!!!!!!!!!! __________________ A lelyat, wen! (Quenya Elvish for "You go, girl!"

01-27-2002, 08:20 PM	#18
Dáin Ironfoot Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 33	Yes the elves at any time are free to sail when they grow weary of Middle Earth, which is becoming ever more rapid with the Fourth Age and the fullfillment of the dominion of men. Only they can find it thru the ring of isles and all that. Doesnt the tower hills palantir look to Tol Ereessa? Aslo, some elves came back to middle earth after they died there once, namely Glorfindel. In addition, the dwarves also remain until the end, waitng in the Mansions of Aule, for the time when the earth shall be remade and they can add thier voices to the song........ __________________ "Understanding your people paves the road to understanding leadership"- Old Atreides maxim

02-06-2002, 03:01 PM	#19
Rayne Guest Posts: n/a	wow! thanks MB Man and Aralaithiel. clears a bunch of stuff up. and i'm gonna go look for Silmarillian. i heard about it a while ago and was kind of curious. thanks again!

02-06-2002, 03:20 PM	#20
Aralaithiel Ghost Eldaran Queen Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A remote mountain in Valinor Posts: 353	Glad to be of service! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ A lelyat, wen! (Quenya Elvish for "You go, girl!"

02-06-2002, 04:25 PM	#21
Lush Fair and Cold Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the big onion Posts: 1,770	Yes, the elves go into the West and are never heard from again, but Tolkien was just kidding when he wrote that Legolas sailed down the Anduin, into the Sea, and so into Valinor. In fact, after he was done dealing with the threat of Sauron and the silly orcs and whatnot, Legolas came straight to my place. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] Sorry sorry sorry, I know that these discussions are meant to be advanced, but I couldn't resist. I do, actually, have a legitimate question: When it's time for the world to be rebuilt, are the elves part of that? Or are they not allowed to leave Valinor ever again, even though the world is made anew? __________________ ~The beginning is the word and the end is silence. And in between are all the stories. This is one of mine~

02-07-2002, 07:58 AM	#22
ongivan Guest Posts: n/a	The Elves do not go to Valinor after departing from Middle-Earth. That right has been taken away from them since the days of Feanor as spoken in the Doom of Mandos. Tol Eressea is now the new home of the Noldor and Sindar should they choose to follow the call of the Valars and head West. Of all the lands, it lays nearest to Valinor and from the Tower of Avallone, the elves can still see the the Undying Land which they are forbiddened to enter.

02-08-2002, 05:49 AM	#24
ongivan Guest Posts: n/a	Thank you Voronwe for correcting me. This is truly a good place to gather to learn more about Tolkien's work. [ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: Nuinwathion ]