The fight with the Balrog... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Olorin · 06-20-2001, 06:13 PM

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Hello There!!! Very good site!!!

So before Gandalf broke his staff, he said to the balrog

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> "You cannot pass. I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass.
The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn.
Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass."<hr></blockquote>

What is he talking about? Hope that some here have an answer<img src=smile.gif ALT="

">

</p>

***Mithadan*** · 06-21-2001, 06:27 AM

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Re: The fight with the Balrog...

Welcome to the Downs Olorin! Most interpret the "servant of the Secret Fire" phrase to simply mean that Gandalf is of the Ainur, a Maia, who sang in the Music before Iluvatar used the "Flame Imperishable" as the heart of Arda to be. Udun is usually intepreted as equivilent to the word "Hell".

My own theory, based upon Gandalf's statement that he is "a weilder of the flame of Anor" is that he, like the Balrogs and Arien, the Maia manning the Sun, is a spirit of fire, a Maia whose "element" is fire. He, and no other, uses fireworks. He was given the Ring of Fire. He "kindles" hearts. Finally, he has particular skill with fire and bolts from his staff.

--Mithadan--
"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

GandaIf The White · 06-22-2001, 12:18 AM

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Re: The fight with the Balrog...

I agree with you Mith. But, on a seperate note, when it says that the Ainur and Maia sang to Eru, it is hard to understand. Its not like they were singing, but.. i dont know. <img src=smile.gif ALT="

">

"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."</p>

***Mithadan*** · 06-22-2001, 05:56 AM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Spirit of Mist
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Re: The fight with the Balrog...

You are correct that "singing" is likely the wrong word. The Ainur made music, perhaps some involving words, some involving tones similar to musical instruments, and some involving non-instrumental sounds.... like "Hey dol, derry dol, ring a ding dillo" (sorry, couldn't resist). <img src=wink.gif ALT="

">

--Mithadan--
"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

Eldar14 · 06-22-2001, 11:18 AM

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Re: The fight with the Balrog...

In my opinion, some of the music that was made was not really audible music, but more along the lines of something with the power, poetry, and magic of music.

</p>

Olorin · 06-22-2001, 12:05 PM

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Re: The fight with the Balrog...

Thank you very much!
Very good theory Mithadan, i totally agree with you.

</p>

06-20-2001, 06:13 PM	#1
Olorin Wight Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Where the sun sails and the moon walks. Posts: 155	The fight with the Balrog... <font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased Posts: 1</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Hello There!!! Very good site!!! So before Gandalf broke his staff, he said to the balrog <blockquote>*Quote:*<hr> "You cannot pass. I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass."<hr></blockquote> What is he talking about? Hope that some here have an answer<img src=smile.gif ALT=""> </p> __________________ Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then don't be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.

06-21-2001, 06:27 AM	#2
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,381	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Spirit of Mist Posts: 900</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: The fight with the Balrog... Welcome to the Downs Olorin! Most interpret the "servant of the Secret Fire" phrase to simply mean that Gandalf is of the Ainur, a Maia, who sang in the Music before Iluvatar used the "Flame Imperishable" as the heart of Arda to be. Udun is usually intepreted as equivilent to the word "Hell". My own theory, based upon Gandalf's statement that he is "a weilder of the flame of Anor" is that he, like the Balrogs and Arien, the Maia manning the Sun, is a spirit of fire, a Maia whose "element" is fire. He, and no other, uses fireworks. He was given the Ring of Fire. He "kindles" hearts. Finally, he has particular skill with fire and bolts from his staff. --Mithadan-- "The Silmarils with living light were kindled clear, and waxing bright shone like stars that in the North above the reek of earth leap forth." </p> __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.

06-22-2001, 12:18 AM	#3
GandaIf The White Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 267	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight Posts: 242</TD><TD><img src=http://www.herr-der-ringe-film.de/HdR/crewmckel.JPG WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: The fight with the Balrog... I agree with you Mith. But, on a seperate note, when it says that the Ainur and Maia sang to Eru, it is hard to understand. Its not like they were singing, but.. i dont know. <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."</p>

06-22-2001, 05:56 AM	#4
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,381	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Spirit of Mist Posts: 902</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: The fight with the Balrog... You are correct that "singing" is likely the wrong word. The Ainur made music, perhaps some involving words, some involving tones similar to musical instruments, and some involving non-instrumental sounds.... like "Hey dol, derry dol, ring a ding dillo" (sorry, couldn't resist). <img src=wink.gif ALT=""> --Mithadan-- "The Silmarils with living light were kindled clear, and waxing bright shone like stars that in the North above the reek of earth leap forth." </p> __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.

06-22-2001, 11:18 AM	#5
Eldar14 Wight Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: the Cottage of Lost Play Posts: 182	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Animated Skeleton Posts: 31</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: The fight with the Balrog... In my opinion, some of the music that was made was not really audible music, but more along the lines of something with the power, poetry, and magic of music. </p> __________________ "Come away! Let the cowards keep this city!" -- Fëanor to the Noldor

06-22-2001, 12:05 PM	#6
Olorin Wight Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Where the sun sails and the moon walks. Posts: 155	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased Posts: 2</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: The fight with the Balrog... Thank you very much! Very good theory Mithadan, i totally agree with you. </p> __________________ Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then don't be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.