Why do we need Bad Guys? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

06-26-2002, 04:40 AM

People, give me some funny and clever answers and I won't have to kill you. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

Gayahithwen · 06-26-2002, 04:55 AM

Well, otherwse the good guys can't show off! Besides, the movies/books would be so boring.. Think about it:

Frodo sat outside his house smoking, when Gandalf came past. They had a big party and nothin ever happened, because Sauron had never made the Ring..

Also, the evil guys soldiers.. They aren't showed untill it's time for the good guy to come in and slaughter them.. right? Why do we need them?

Daniel Telcontar · 06-26-2002, 05:06 AM

Well, every reader needs somebody in the book to hate. If you are an evil reader, you hate people like Frodo and Sam. But if you are on their side, you hate the evil ones like Ugluk, who I think isn't evil, he just suffers from brain damage. I have the evidence: I am Ugluk. I command.

The poor creature has no way of explaining himself. I think it was wrong of the Rohirrim to kill him, he was just a victim of circumstances. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Rosa_Baggins · 06-26-2002, 05:40 AM

How interesting would it be to watch Frodo smoking a pipe for at least 2 hours.......not interesting at all would it.
Bad guys give the story or movie or what ever more action and things BUT when the good guys fight the baddies we all know whos gonna win dont we!The good guys of course!!
So i a way i agree with you on not having bad guys but its boring otherwise. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
anyway must go seeyou lot later
From
Rosa

Anarya SilverBranch · 06-26-2002, 08:44 AM

I don't believe that they are really bad guys, just misunderstood souls who can't get anywhere in life without stepping on others because of they're sad past and deepseated insecrurities within them that they can't seem to forget. Quite sad really [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

gollum*elf*pup · 06-26-2002, 10:50 AM

bad guys? what bad guys?

Starbreeze · 06-26-2002, 02:28 PM

They are essential for character development, and prehaps for the personality of the characters themselves. I cannot name anyone, especially after September 11th, whose life has not been touched by evil. Evil shapes us, it shows us our strengths and our weaknesses and enables us to change the way we live and the way we think about life. The bad guys help us live, as well as destroying lives. It is all about adaptation, survival fittest and all that.

akhtene · 06-26-2002, 06:43 PM

If there were no bad guys, how would we know that other guys are good? [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

Gimli Son Of Gloin · 06-26-2002, 08:03 PM

Hey Maul, you need the bad guys so they can get killed, like a certain Dark Apprentice that got killed by certain Jedi in Episode one.(And also killed one)

Cimmerian · 06-27-2002, 05:50 AM

Imagine a sterile society like the Thermians had in the 'Galaxy Quest' movie. Those guys didn't even lie. What a perfect society, a blissfull Utopia. Wouldn't it be great to have such in every sphere of life? To live life every day the exact same way till the day we die?

NOT!

Enter Sarris

to bring some life into the story.

ENUFF SAID!

Maul, eh? Does your keeper know you're outside... Muahahahhahahahahaha! [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

Rosa_Baggins · 06-27-2002, 09:27 AM

I havnt see that movie cim but that guy is freaky!!
*shudders*
love
Rosa

Greyhame · 06-27-2002, 11:43 PM

Why bad guys? Why good guys? Why tall guys? The answer lies in the seeming paradox of conflict and resolution.

What resolution, you ask? I'd tell you, but THEY don't want you to know.

If you don't believe me, just ask the you-know-who. They'll help you out.

If the above schizophrenic, apparently mindless ramblings have frightened and/or disturbed you at all, there is a lesson:
Don't EVER, EVER, EVER get engaged!!!

Unless you're already married or something.

AAARRGH!!! The in-laws, the ring shopping, the lack of money, the only 18 months left!!!

Run, run!!! Uncle Greyhame is having a nervous breakdown!!!

If it's at all possible at this point, try and disregard this post.

akhtene · 06-28-2002, 04:06 PM

Oh, Cimmerian, don't you ever post such huge bugs where I could see it !!! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I'm just a tiny bit phobic (and the tread seemed so peaceful...)

Maikadilwen · 06-28-2002, 04:20 PM

It's only to make girls heartbroken when the socalled "villain" dies...... *sigh* [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]
Like Maul..... or Pinhead........ [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

Starbreeze · 06-29-2002, 05:54 AM

In the same way that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so evil is seen differently by different people.
Many of those who are seen as evil by others see them selves as doing what is right for the good of others.
Prehaps the bad guys are just misunderstood people, who in turn misunderstand the difference between good and evil and right and wrong.

06-29-2002, 09:38 AM

Good, neat and funny answers from all except RosaBaggins and akhtene. I spare you all for now. But you two, Be afraid! Be very afraid! [img]smilies/redface.gif[/img]

Maikadilwen · 06-29-2002, 12:01 PM

Ah, come on Maul. Try to be "nice" just for once. You know I'm crazy about you. Though you broke my heart when you died.... [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

Talking Hawk · 06-29-2002, 04:45 PM

Well-spoken, StarBreeze! (Don't mind me budding into this conversation..) I agree whole-heartedly, and I think that as some people view particular characters as "villainous" because they know that they would have opposed them, I think that other people see these characters as - for the lack of a better word - not-so-bad because those characters may have traits that the person has. (Okay, did that make any sense..?)

All right, here's an example. Person A thinks Boromir is a toosh-head because person A has a big fat crush on Frodo, and would've beaten up the son of the steward of Gondor in an instant for attacking the little hobbit. Meanwhile, Person B, from his/her own life experiences, has a very strong bond to his/her family - comparitive to Boromir's bond to his people, the Gondorians. Person B, therefore, might have felt that Boromir is a misunderstood character, one of a noble heart who is only trying to do the best he knows how.

(pauses and blinks) I just realized that I did not directly answer Maul's question...hm... I suppose the reason we need "bad guys" are for readers/viewers to argue/discuss/share their point of views on where to draw the line between a "good" and "bad" character. As far as LOTR is concerned, there is a lot of grey area (i.e., Elrond, Boromir, Gollum, Saruman...). That's all for now..

Maikadilwen · 06-29-2002, 04:49 PM

Quote:

(i.e., Elrond, Boromir, Gollum, Saruman...).

Elrond as a "baddie"??? Enlighten me please....

Starbreeze · 06-30-2002, 08:35 AM

Hawk, what you said made perfect sense, except Elrond being a baddy - surely he helped the cause of Light, not hindered it?

Cimmerian · 07-06-2002, 04:55 AM

Quote:

(i.e., Elrond, Boromir, Gollum, Saruman...).

Boromir a baddie????...how do people come up with that one after he gave his life in trying to protect others... do read the debates on this subject all over this board on Boromir's characterisation.

Rosa_Baggins · 07-06-2002, 05:12 AM

[img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] Yep!Im trembling in my boots, i reallllly am! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Lothiriel Silmarien · 07-06-2002, 04:29 PM

Maikadilwen, I agree with you about the villains. Why do the hot ones always die?! Well atleast Sauron was around for a while. He was a hot guy, then was reduced to a hot disembodied eye.

Maul, I'll give you a reason why we need bad guys. There would be no storyline without them. Would LotR have been written without Sauron? The One Ring would not have been forged. And it's much more exciting with Nazguls and Orcs and all those bad guys [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Rosseiliantiel · 07-11-2002, 09:35 AM

We need bad people, cuz otherwise we wouldn't have me, and THEN what would we do? [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

11-13-2002, 02:05 AM

Encore! Encore!

Mintyztwin · 11-13-2002, 08:41 AM

Why do we need bad guys? 'Cause bad guys are cool!!! [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

Heh heh. We need them to make sure the good guys get their daily blood bath. (How else do you think their skin stays so baby soft?)

Sorry 'bout that! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] If anyone thinks that was to bizarre, chalk it up to a momentary loss of sanity! (Not that I'm ever sane! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Lindril Arvilya · 11-13-2002, 09:37 AM

We need bad guys so that young children tihnk good is good and go out and buy the toys and play with them. And also so that fangirls think good is hot and go out and buy the toys and pretend they were Arwen. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

dragoneyes · 11-13-2002, 12:48 PM

We need bad guys so that our lives don't get weighed down with drudgery and so we can have someone to punch once in a while when life gets tough [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

TolkienGurl · 11-13-2002, 01:47 PM

Stories need 'bad guys' because that's the way the world is. Usually stories, especially LOTR, reflect those elements of our lives. There's always evil all around, and 'bad guys' doing bad things. Its an unwanted but present part of life.

Lindolirian · 11-13-2002, 07:50 PM

If we didn't have bad guys in certain movies, we couldn't make fun of them when they play good guys in other movies..... "Who am I speaking of?", you ask....

None other than the great and really funky lookin...

**drum roll**

AGENT ELROND!!!

06-26-2002, 04:40 AM	#1
MoonDragon Guest Posts: n/a	Why do we need Bad Guys? People, give me some funny and clever answers and I won't have to kill you. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

06-26-2002, 04:55 AM	#2
Gayahithwen Wight Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The chat-room. Posts: 241	Well, otherwse the good guys can't show off! Besides, the movies/books would be so boring.. Think about it: Frodo sat outside his house smoking, when Gandalf came past. They had a big party and nothin ever happened, because Sauron had never made the Ring.. Also, the evil guys soldiers.. They aren't showed untill it's time for the good guy to come in and slaughter them.. right? Why do we need them? __________________ Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he'll be a mile away - and barefoot.

06-26-2002, 05:06 AM	#3
Daniel Telcontar Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 713	Well, every reader needs somebody in the book to hate. If you are an evil reader, you hate people like Frodo and Sam. But if you are on their side, you hate the evil ones like Ugluk, who I think isn't evil, he just suffers from brain damage. I have the evidence: I am Ugluk. I command. The poor creature has no way of explaining himself. I think it was wrong of the Rohirrim to kill him, he was just a victim of circumstances. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] __________________ Two beer or not two beer, that is the question; by Shakesbeer

06-26-2002, 05:40 AM	#4
Rosa_Baggins Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Hobbiton in the Shire Posts: 145	How interesting would it be to watch Frodo smoking a pipe for at least 2 hours.......not interesting at all would it. Bad guys give the story or movie or what ever more action and things BUT when the good guys fight the baddies we all know whos gonna win dont we!The good guys of course!! So i a way i agree with you on not having bad guys but its boring otherwise. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] anyway must go seeyou lot later From Rosa __________________ There is ever a Rose without thorns.

06-26-2002, 08:44 AM	#5
Anarya SilverBranch Wight Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: In maiden meditation, fancy free. Posts: 245	I don't believe that they are really bad guys, just misunderstood souls who can't get anywhere in life without stepping on others because of they're sad past and deepseated insecrurities within them that they can't seem to forget. Quite sad really [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] __________________ Snow white! Snow White! O' Lady Clear! O' Queen Beyond the Western Seas! O' light to us that wander here amid the world of woven trees!

06-26-2002, 10:50 AM	#6
gollumelfpup Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: big...scary...castle... Posts: 277	bad guys? what bad guys? __________________ ~elfpup~ PI's evil family dog!!! I have found the chicken who is not a chicken!

06-26-2002, 02:28 PM	#7
Starbreeze Ghost of a Smile Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Mirkwood - Middle Earth Posts: 389	They are essential for character development, and prehaps for the personality of the characters themselves. I cannot name anyone, especially after September 11th, whose life has not been touched by evil. Evil shapes us, it shows us our strengths and our weaknesses and enables us to change the way we live and the way we think about life. The bad guys help us live, as well as destroying lives. It is all about adaptation, survival fittest and all that. __________________ Do not tamper with the affairs of wizards, they are not all that subtle - Terry Pratchett To write is to make dreams, to make dreams is to awaken the fantasy of the mind, to awaken the mind is to be a master.

06-26-2002, 06:43 PM	#8
akhtene Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: stronghold of the North Posts: 390	If there were no bad guys, how would we know that other guys are good? [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] __________________ Где найти мне сил, чтобы вернуться через века, Чтобы ты - простил?.. А трава разлуки высока...

06-26-2002, 08:03 PM	#9
Gimli Son Of Gloin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Halls of Montezuma, and the Shores of Tripoli Posts: 495	Hey Maul, you need the bad guys so they can get killed, like a certain Dark Apprentice that got killed by certain Jedi in Episode one.(And also killed one) __________________ The Few, the Proud, the Marines.

06-27-2002, 05:50 AM	#10
Cimmerian Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Aquilonia Posts: 382	Imagine a sterile society like the Thermians had in the 'Galaxy Quest' movie. Those guys didn't even lie. What a perfect society, a blissfull Utopia. Wouldn't it be great to have such in every sphere of life? To live life every day the exact same way till the day we die? NOT! Enter Sarris to bring some life into the story. ENUFF SAID! Maul, eh? Does your keeper know you're outside... Muahahahhahahahahaha! [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] __________________ IN STEEL I TRUST, BY CROM!

06-27-2002, 09:27 AM	#11
Rosa_Baggins Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Hobbiton in the Shire Posts: 145	I havnt see that movie cim but that guy is freaky!! shudders love Rosa __________________ There is ever a Rose without thorns.

06-27-2002, 11:43 PM	#12
Greyhame Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: illinois Posts: 42	Why bad guys? Why good guys? Why tall guys? The answer lies in the seeming paradox of conflict and resolution. What resolution, you ask? I'd tell you, but THEY don't want you to know. If you don't believe me, just ask the you-know-who. They'll help you out. If the above schizophrenic, apparently mindless ramblings have frightened and/or disturbed you at all, there is a lesson: Don't EVER, EVER, EVER get engaged!!! Unless you're already married or something. AAARRGH!!! The in-laws, the ring shopping, the lack of money, the only 18 months left!!! Run, run!!! Uncle Greyhame is having a nervous breakdown!!! If it's at all possible at this point, try and disregard this post. __________________ Poo-tee-weet?

06-28-2002, 04:06 PM	#13
akhtene Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: stronghold of the North Posts: 390	Oh, Cimmerian, don't you ever post such huge bugs where I could see it !!! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I'm just a tiny bit phobic (and the tread seemed so peaceful...) __________________ Где найти мне сил, чтобы вернуться через века, Чтобы ты - простил?.. А трава разлуки высока...

06-28-2002, 04:20 PM	#14
Maikadilwen Summoner of Lost Souls Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: At home, with my Strongbow Posts: 521	It's only to make girls heartbroken when the socalled "villain" dies...... sigh [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] Like Maul..... or Pinhead........ [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] __________________ -"Death borders upon our birth, and our cradle stands in the grave. Our birth is nothing but our death begun."

06-29-2002, 05:54 AM	#15
Starbreeze Ghost of a Smile Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Mirkwood - Middle Earth Posts: 389	In the same way that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so evil is seen differently by different people. Many of those who are seen as evil by others see them selves as doing what is right for the good of others. Prehaps the bad guys are just misunderstood people, who in turn misunderstand the difference between good and evil and right and wrong. __________________ Do not tamper with the affairs of wizards, they are not all that subtle - Terry Pratchett To write is to make dreams, to make dreams is to awaken the fantasy of the mind, to awaken the mind is to be a master.

06-29-2002, 09:38 AM	#16
MoonDragon Guest Posts: n/a	Good, neat and funny answers from all except RosaBaggins and akhtene. I spare you all for now. But you two, Be afraid! Be very afraid! [img]smilies/redface.gif[/img]

06-29-2002, 12:01 PM	#17
Maikadilwen Summoner of Lost Souls Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: At home, with my Strongbow Posts: 521	Ah, come on Maul. Try to be "nice" just for once. You know I'm crazy about you. Though you broke my heart when you died.... [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] __________________ -"Death borders upon our birth, and our cradle stands in the grave. Our birth is nothing but our death begun."

06-29-2002, 04:45 PM	#18
Talking Hawk Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: California Posts: 23	Well-spoken, StarBreeze! (Don't mind me budding into this conversation..) I agree whole-heartedly, and I think that as some people view particular characters as "villainous" because they know that they would have opposed them, I think that other people see these characters as - for the lack of a better word - not-so-bad because those characters may have traits that the person has. (Okay, did that make any sense..?) All right, here's an example. Person A thinks Boromir is a toosh-head because person A has a big fat crush on Frodo, and would've beaten up the son of the steward of Gondor in an instant for attacking the little hobbit. Meanwhile, Person B, from his/her own life experiences, has a very strong bond to his/her family - comparitive to Boromir's bond to his people, the Gondorians. Person B, therefore, might have felt that Boromir is a misunderstood character, one of a noble heart who is only trying to do the best he knows how. (pauses and blinks) I just realized that I did not directly answer Maul's question...hm... I suppose the reason we need "bad guys" are for readers/viewers to argue/discuss/share their point of views on where to draw the line between a "good" and "bad" character. As far as LOTR is concerned, there is a lot of grey area (i.e., Elrond, Boromir, Gollum, Saruman...). That's all for now.. __________________ Merry shrugged his shoulders. “It could be a love triangle. Like about a week ago, I was in love with Angela AND Estella, but then I decided to break it off with Angela…” He sighed dreamily, but Pippin lifted an eyebrow. “Angela thought your name was Timothy,” he pointed out innocently, and Merry glared at him. “It could happen to anybody…” - Excerpt from my "Three Blind Spies" story (see fanfic section)

06-30-2002, 08:35 AM	#20
Starbreeze Ghost of a Smile Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Mirkwood - Middle Earth Posts: 389	Hawk, what you said made perfect sense, except Elrond being a baddy - surely he helped the cause of Light, not hindered it? __________________ Do not tamper with the affairs of wizards, they are not all that subtle - Terry Pratchett To write is to make dreams, to make dreams is to awaken the fantasy of the mind, to awaken the mind is to be a master.

07-06-2002, 05:12 AM	#22
Rosa_Baggins Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Hobbiton in the Shire Posts: 145	[img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] Yep!Im trembling in my boots, i reallllly am! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ There is ever a Rose without thorns.

07-06-2002, 04:29 PM	#23
Lothiriel Silmarien Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: New York Posts: 829	Maikadilwen, I agree with you about the villains. Why do the hot ones always die?! Well atleast Sauron was around for a while. He was a hot guy, then was reduced to a hot disembodied eye. Maul, I'll give you a reason why we need bad guys. There would be no storyline without them. Would LotR have been written without Sauron? The One Ring would not have been forged. And it's much more exciting with Nazguls and Orcs and all those bad guys [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ Si vanwa na Romello vanwa Valimar!~~ ~~Now lost, lost to those from the East is Valimar! My LotR page

07-11-2002, 09:35 AM	#24
Rosseiliantiel Wight Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hopelessly lost Posts: 174	We need bad people, cuz otherwise we wouldn't have me, and THEN what would we do? [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Whatever floats your oyster.

11-13-2002, 02:05 AM	#25
MoonDragon Guest Posts: n/a	Encore! Encore!

11-13-2002, 08:41 AM	#26
Mintyztwin Wight Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The other side of crazy Posts: 212	Why do we need bad guys? 'Cause bad guys are cool!!! [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] Heh heh. We need them to make sure the good guys get their daily blood bath. (How else do you think their skin stays so baby soft?) Sorry 'bout that! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] If anyone thinks that was to bizarre, chalk it up to a momentary loss of sanity! (Not that I'm ever sane! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ So, where are we going? But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance, and gentleness. 1 Timothy 6:2

11-13-2002, 09:37 AM	#27
Lindril Arvilya Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In a box at the end of Harrison Ford's street, with a pair of binoculars Posts: 332	We need bad guys so that young children tihnk good is good and go out and buy the toys and play with them. And also so that fangirls think good is hot and go out and buy the toys and pretend they were Arwen. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Neo, watch out! Trinity's going to steal your pants! Pants thief! Pants thief!

11-13-2002, 12:48 PM	#28
dragoneyes Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Completely lost track, sorry! Posts: 733	We need bad guys so that our lives don't get weighed down with drudgery and so we can have someone to punch once in a while when life gets tough [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] __________________ "We might succeed in roasting Pippin alive inside." - Frodo.

11-13-2002, 01:47 PM	#29
TolkienGurl Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 637	Stories need 'bad guys' because that's the way the world is. Usually stories, especially LOTR, reflect those elements of our lives. There's always evil all around, and 'bad guys' doing bad things. Its an unwanted but present part of life. __________________ Hopes fail. An end comes. We have only a little time to wait now. We are lost in ruin and downfall and there is no escape. -Frodo My Livejournal

11-13-2002, 07:50 PM	#30
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,117	If we didn't have bad guys in certain movies, we couldn't make fun of them when they play good guys in other movies..... "Who am I speaking of?", you ask.... None other than the great and really funky lookin... drum roll AGENT ELROND!!! __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."