txt msg style ritng wiv no cptlzation or pnctuation...grrr!

[LePetitChoux]

I'm here to post an official complaint about chat style writing. This in all probability has been done before, but I cannot find the thread. The difficulty of interpreting wot dey wanna sey wen dey pst like dis is in my opinion hardly worth the effort, because why post in bad grammar, and bad spelling and clear carelessness if you want peple to come and take you and your posts seriously? Only too often have I seen "hello i'm new" messages (not capitalised, bien sur), with completely uneducated writing! Now, is it just me, or is the Policies thread there for the explicit (I'm not English, is that the right word?) purpose of filling all new users in on what the rules are in Barrow Downs, in hope that they will actually follow them? And is it just me, or is there a chunk of the Policies thread which says:

The Downs is not a chat room. Typos are one thing, but lazy chat-style abbreviations and punctuation put you in the dog-house with the mods before they’ve even clicked on your topic. Take some pride in what you write! Use whole sentences and proper capitalization. Put some effort into expressing yourself clearly.

I'm seriously not complaining about the 'Downs, I think its the most wonderful website ever! (all hail the Barrow-Wight!) All I'm saying is, if you have something to say, say it well!
Thats all from me now...but I vil be back!

[Mhoram]

The Abbreviator would be proud! It seems he has indeed defeated Spellcheck Man for good!

[ November 26, 2002: Message edited by: Mhoram ]

[Childlike Empress]

Small one (sorry, I don't know what "Choux" means), I suggest checking out "(sp?): The Phantom Menace" and "The Agony of Poor Spelling" right here in this barrow. Worth reading [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[VanimaEdhel]

Please, please, please, for the sake of the sanity of your fellow wraiths and the moderators, think before you start a topic. What should you think about? Well for one, is this a topic that has been done many times before? Are there a few topics just like this one that are already active? Can I find an old discussion on this topic and find something new to add to that one instead of creating a new one?

Sorry, could not resist the urge...I'm just feeling sarcastic and cynical...and fairly Dark-Ladyesque today...

EDIT: Happy 1480th post to me...do I get candy? What a waste of a 1480th post...

[ November 27, 2002: Message edited by: VanimaEdhel ]

[LePetitChoux]

OK, OK, I get both the hint and the irony of making a duplicate thread to decry duplicate threads [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[Arwen Imladris]

For starting a topic especially, it might help to write it in Word or equivalent first. This is good because it checks your spelling at least for you and you can sit back and look at it before you post. Just a suggestion.

[Amanaduial the archer]

Small one (sorry, I don't know what "Choux" means),

cabbage. The Little Cabbage. In France, its an endearment. Makes you wonder...

I was just looking at some of the threads I posted on when I was fairly new, and when I found some of my posts and a few from other people who were newbies at that time and I couldnt help wincing- Its really quite painful! All da mesjs r like dis & deres no splling & vowls dont exst. c'est tres bizarre!

I do pride myself on one thing though; I have never used abreviated text or chat speech in any RPGs. That is one thing that really bugs me.

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

If somebody is new, I think it's okay that they use chat and bad grammar for the first, say 2 weeks, after which they figure out how to type properly. I dUn MeN tInS lAk DiS though. If somebody doesn't capitalize or doesn't have the best grammar at first it's probably okay. I'm pretty new myself [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] but have been here for a few month, long enough to know not to use chatese. Maybe it would be helpful if people 'lurked' a bit before posting, so that they see how to type.

~Menelien

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I knew how to speak and write English before I found the Downs. There was this place I went to; what was it called again? That's it: school.

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
I used chatese before I cam to the Downs, but I don't think I ever used it here. Right now, I only use chatese when talking to 2 of my friends on AIM. I talk to the rest in normal letters. I don't know why. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

~Menelien

[Iarwain]

The funny thing is that when people use "chatese" (great word menelien [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] ) it makes them sound, well, stupid. And when people act less intelligent than I'm sure they are, it annoys me. And when something annoys me, I take on a very condesending attitude that is not good for me or that person. So you see, the use of chatese is a horrible crime that should be punished by.. life!

Iarwain

[Weber]

I knew how to speak and write English before I found the Downs. There was this place I went to; what was it called again? That's it: school.

Yes that's right (or in chat form ya dat's rght). But since I haven't posted here much, I luckily have not been affected by that. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Lyra Greenleaf]

Weber- wow! The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism?

Sorry. My early posts showed a distinct lack of any grammar and capitals but I did spell words right, which is something. Beginning to RPG was what encouraged me to write properly, because it got me into the habit. Like Aman said, chat-speak in RPGs is TERRIBLE!

[Sleeping Beauty]

I'm still trying to figure out why people use chatese on the net in the first place. (Ideas, anyone?) It's not a place where you can just slack off and not use the knowledge you have gained in that noodle of yours. It's just another medium to which you can get information and meet other people. We need to uphold to a standard which everyone can understand what you are trying to stay. And also so you don't look like an idiot while you're trying to be profound and getting insights into Tolkien. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Amanaduial the archer]

When people do use chat speak in RPGs, it just completely spoils the feel of it. You cant have a serious RPG when, in a tragic death scene, the main character says, "ill b ok, u can go on wivout me. im gonna go 2 a betta plaz." Well, that truly will go down in history as a great moment as writing, wont it? I mean, come on.

However, my writing isn't perfect- one of the moderators once asked if I was dyslexic, which was embarassing. And I think I might have just spelt embarassing wrong. Man, I'm not helping my point, am I?

There are, of course, quite alot of BDers for whom English is their second, or third, language, some of them still at school. It is perfectly understandable if their spelling isnt perfect, because they're doing flaming well to be able to get by here anyway. As someone who does four languages at school and is doing awfully at three of them, I am in awe of those people.

[vanwalossien]

As someone who does four languages at school and is doing awfully at three of them, I am in awe of those people

I think doing four languages at school is quite impressive Aman, I'm doing three and that's by far enough (but I'll end up adding Russian to my burden in two years time I fear. And I study Quenya...). English is my second language, and sometimes it fails me completely, mostly in the way that I'm not able to express myself and end up not writing the stupid post. I don't think I have too many misspellings, because I already feel stupid enough when I have trouble expressing myself, so I try to check the spelling and grammar on the things I do write.

The thing that annoys me most about chatese, isn't that it makes the writer seem a bit more stupid than he/she probably is, but the fact that I often have a lot of trouble understanding it... I understand Norwegian chatese (at least to some extent), but English? As I said, I've got enough with ordinary English.

[ May 10, 2003: Message edited by: vanwalossien ]

[Amanaduial the archer]

English is your second language? [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] Man, I thought you were from the states or England. (Not an insult, ok?) Wow. Impressed.

And now I feel even worse for not knowing my latin groups better.

[vanwalossien]

Man, I thought you were from the states or England. (Not an insult, ok?)

I'll try my very best to not be offended [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] . As I said, if I'm having trouble and the post turns out really stupid I don't post it. I take pride in what little writing I do (260 posts in 8 months, I could've done better [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] )
EDIT: I underestimate myself. 270, not 260... [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ May 10, 2003: Message edited by: vanwalossien ]

[Amanaduial the archer]

I'll try my very best to not be offended

[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Where are you actually from then? Just wondering, mind.

[vanwalossien]

Norway *dramatic sigh* [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I often have a lot of trouble understanding it... I understand Norwegian chatese (at least to some extent), but English? As I said, I've got enough with ordinary English.

I was thinking of saying something like that myself. It isn't fair on the members for whom English isn't a first language to use opaque abbreviations and obscure acronyms. It isn't fair on those of us who went to school before the Internet existed either. Not everyone can understand the weirder short-cuts, so we ought to stick to a standard that we can all comprehend, which is after all why we have rules of spelling and grammar. Your English is very good, vanwalossien. I'd never have guessed you were from Norway.

[Amanaduial the archer]

Apart from when you said you understand Norwegian chatese. Which I completely missed. Hey, its half ten at night, gimme- sorry, give me- a break!

[vanwalossien]

I'd never have guessed you were from Norway.

Thank goodness! Only a limited amount of national pride here... Ok, Norway's not that bad, we have better Chatese than you English people do [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]. We actually avoid using numbers in our chatese. (One of few English chatese expressions I understand is gr8.)

[Weber]

260 posts in 8 months, I could've done better

Don't worry, I've been here for about a year and only about 86 posts. Yes, yes i know, it's sad [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Melephelwen]

U r so rit bt d ndrstndng stf! I would take a couple of minutes translating that sentence, if I hadn't practiced it for ages. I usually give up when I see those threads... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]
I don't understand how people can write "chatese" at hand. Ever I try, I always end up using 'you' anyways. (Okay, so I admit, I actually try to learn chatese. Don't know why, just figured it would be good, if I needed to decipher something.)
English is also my second language, but I almost never have troubles expressing myself, except for situations I also have in my native tounge. When I give up a post, it's usually because I don't know what I want to say. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Amanaduial the archer]

You tried to learn chatese?!

Man, we should get this registered as a real language.

[Amanaduial the archer]

You tried to learn chatese?!

Man, we should get this registered as a real language.

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

I know chatese as I used to *shudder* use it [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] I understand why people might use it on AIM, repulsive thought it may be, because you can say things faster and all that. But on forums... here it’s not a race to say things faster, so chatese is just annoying.

(but I'll end up adding Russian to my burden in two years time I fear. And I study Quenya...)

I study Quenya too, but I’m barely moving, and I’m happy that there will be another Russian speaker here [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

~Menelien

[The Daughter of Gollum and Shelob]

I also study Quenya. But about the txt msg lingo, I agree that it does not look good in RPGs. But in other topics, I don't c y ppl cnt use it. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

BTW - my mum texts me in Proper English Which Is Funny.

[The Barrow-Wight]

In a forum dedicated to the literary works of our favorite author, it would be completely improper to use anything but correct English. The best thing a new member can do on any forum is lurk until they determine the standards of conduct and writing of the place they have entered. Too many people jump right in without looking to see what they might be stepping in.

[vanwalossien]

BTW - my mum texts me in Proper English Which Is Funny.

I write text messages in proper Norwegian, I always end up sending my messages in two or three parts... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[Ainaserkewen]

I hate chat style writting in all forms!
When I was a kid, we did extensive training on typing. So I've never been able to abbreviate before, plus I just can't read it. Hopefully people take this under concideration because it's driving me nuts.

[Arwen Imladris]

I found a short, satirical essay on bad grammar in e-correspondence starring Professor Tolkien. The article asks, how might the Good Professor have responded to the average email, if he'd lived to see the day?

Click Here!

Very funny and deffinatly worth the read!

[Amanaduial the archer]

Thanks Arwen!

I never got taught how to type really- I taught myself to touch type. If I starty typing random stuff, it will just be typos- look around the letter I seem to have got wrong and youll find the right one. Probably.

[Birdland]

Arwen - That was priceless. I can't even imagine how you managed to search for such an example. "Tolkien + IM"?

By the way: I loath I.M. in all its forms, and friends know this. Besides the ridiculous abbreviations, I hate having an instant message popping up in the middle of my web surfing. (And no. It is not the same as having a person walk into the room.) Send me an e-mail and I'll get back to you, for pity sakes!

[Trippo The Hippo]

When I first came here I used no punctuation, or capitalization. Then I got a PM from Mithadan, informing me that I should strive to use better grammar. Well looking back at my earlier posts, I can see why he did that. So I apologize to all of you that read those early posts. Also thanks Mith for straightening me out.

[The Only Real Estel]

There's no way you can make everybody cooperate & disallow chat room spelling, unless the mods get involved. Just bear with it, and if you see someone doing it consistently, PM them & inform them of the need to use correct grammer/punctuation.
Bi fr nw... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
[img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

[ May 14, 2003: Message edited by: The Only Real Estel ]

[Yavanna228]

Although I admit to using some acronyms while I IM some people, I find it using it on message boards thoroughly unproffesional and inconsiderate to those who may not know English as a first language. I would also suggest, as many others have, to give it your best effort when you post- it keeps it easier to read (ironically!), and gets your point across better. I found this short satire on 'English Made Easy' while surfing the 'net. Enjoy!
English Made Easy!
Peace

[Lossentilien]

I agree with the general points made here, especially about it being hard to read text message style writing, but do things like 'kinda' or 'lol' count? (Obviously not in more formal posts, as in RPG.) Because I sometimes find myself writing things like that just for speed, and because it's not something that most people would have to figure out. Although I suppose not everyone will know. And I've noticed that quite a lot of people write j/k.
That's about the limit of text style I can actually stand. It drives me mad when people shorten the word 'come', or shorten words to the extent that you have to read it over a few times before you figure it out. [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img]

[ May 14, 2003: Message edited by: Lossentilien ]

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

perhaps you should abide by the adage, "Short cuts make for long delays".

Priceless [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
I think that's a perfect phrase to describe chatese! And Trippo, for example, well you started using normal language very fast, and even what you wrote before was at least legible [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] But lots of people keep writing chatese forever [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

~Menelien