Glorfindel; shadow in the background. - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Daegwenn · 02-19-2002, 11:04 AM

Glorfindel definetly does not have a major part to play in the Lord of the Rings, yet he has a major part to play in the history of the Elves. I am currently writing a story about him and I am a little confused...I have read plenty about him but the farther I get into my research, the more muddled it gets. Some questions I have are:

What status does Glorfindel hold amongst the house of Rivendell? Is he Vanyarin? What about family?

Where does he come from?

He shows up first and defeats a balrog, but at the same time, dies by throwing it and himself off of a cliff. Was he reincarnated and then returned to ME in time for the War of the Five armies?

Is the Glorfindel of Rivendell and the Glorfindel of Gondolin or did JRRT decide to use the name again like he did with Rumil?

I know that these questions are quite hard to answer, but if someone could even take a shot in the dark and see if it comes up the same as mine, then it would probably make me a little more confident about my story. I am running around in circles with these questions, trying to figure them out...so hey, any advice would be apprieciated.

Sincerely,
Daegwenn

Niphredil Baggins · 02-19-2002, 11:12 AM

I asked this on a board once and got the reply that even Tolkien did not know! Write what you like, that's what I'm doing. ( a Glorfindel fic on the way)

Bruce MacCulloch · 02-19-2002, 11:16 AM

Actually, Glorfindel is fairly specifically stated to be the same Glorfindel that killed the Balrog and died at the Fall of Gondolin.

Airetauriel · 02-19-2002, 11:22 AM

I don't think this is made clear anywhere in any book but my guess is that Glorfindel of Rivendell is different to Glorfindel of Gondolin (maybe a look at some family trees in the Silmarillion or appendicies would confirm this) They are perhaps related. Perhaps he is not reincarnated but it is the other Glorfindel which returns for the battle of the five armies. Another possiblity is that it is the same person but he returns changed from the encounter with the Balrog much as Gandalf did, returning as white! Gandalf in the Fellowship of the Ring refers to him as an elf-lord when speaking to Elrond.

I'm trying to help but I probably haven't!

Airetauriel

Daegwenn · 02-19-2002, 12:17 PM

I found this, by the help of a fanfiction that was written and posted on Fanfiction.net, it is about Glorfindel...most of it is pretty good. I think that it would be safe to assume that some of this info is based on fact-some are theories that the writer has been tinkering with as well...It is quite interesting, for those who are interested in learning a bit about Glorfindel's past.

article on Glorfindel

The elves do believe in Reincarnation, so maybe it did happen...I think Glorfindel has been an enigma to Tolkien, just as he is to most of his fans, and it was a pity that not much is written about him. I think that he is a worthy character of a book or two. I can think of it now...
The Adventures of Glorfindel and Gandalf!
... that would be interesting!!

~~Daegwenn
[img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Bruce MacCulloch · 02-19-2002, 12:23 PM

On the contrary, the books do say that the two Glorfindels are the same person.
Regarding Glorfindel, Tolkien said:

Quote:

An Elf who had once known Middle-earth and had fought in the long wars against Melkor would be an eminently suitable companion for Gandalf. We could then reasonably suppose that Glorfindel (possibly as one of a small party, more probably as a sole companion) landed with Gandalf-Olorin about Third Age 1000. This supposition would indeed explain the air of special power and sanctity that surrounds Glorfindel - note how the Witch-king flies from him, although all others(such as King Earnur) however brave could not induce their horses to face him (Appendix A (I, iv), RK p. 331). For according to accounts (quite independent of this case) elsewhere given of Elvish nature, and their relations with the Valar, when Glorfindel was slain his spirit would then go to Mandos and be judged, and then would remain in the Halls of Waiting until Manwe granted him release. The Elves were destined to be by nature 'immortal', within the unknown limits of the life of the Earth as a habitable realm, and their disembodiment was a grievous thing. It was the duty, therefore, of the Valar to restore them, if they were slain, to incarnate life, if they desired it - unless for some grave (and rare) reason: such as deeds of great evil, or any works of malice of which they remained obdurately unrepentant. When they were re-embodied they could remain in Valinor, or return to Middle-earth if their home had been there.

HoME, vol 12, The Peoples of Middle Earth
Also, in the same book, Professor Tolkien has this to say regarding the identity of Glorfindel:

Quote:

At any rate what at first sight may seem the simplest solution must be abandoned: sc. that we have merely a reduplication of names, and that Glorfindel of Gondolin and Glorfindel of Rivendell were different persons. This repetition of so striking a name, though possible, would not be credible. No other major character in the Elvish legends as reported in The Silmarillion and The Lord of the Rings has a name borne by another Elvish person of importance. Also it may be found that acceptance of the identity of Glorfindel of old and of the Third Age will actually explain what is said of him and improve the story.

Tolkien also states that another possibility is that Glorfindel came back some time during the Second Age - still indicating that there are not two Glorfindels, but one.

Quote:

We may then best suppose that Glorfindel returned during the Second Age, before the 'shadow' fell on Numenor, and while the Numenoreans were welcomed by the Eldar as powerful allies. His return must have been for the purpose of strengthening Gilgalad and Elrond, when the growing evil of the intentions of Sauron were at last perceived by them.

The only possible conclusion to draw is that Glorfindel of Gondolin and Glorfindel of Rivendell were one and the same. To me, it seems rather specifically stated.

[ February 19, 2002: Message edited by: Bruce MacCulloch ]

Carannillion · 02-19-2002, 01:05 PM

Yes, I think the Glorfindels are one. That seems to be settled around here, anyway. Another thread also came to this conclusion.
Glorfindel of Rivendell is Glorfindel from the Fall of Gondolin, "reincarnated" to help in the struggle against Sauron.

Tarlondeion Of Gondolin · 02-23-2002, 04:29 PM

If he died at Gondolin isn't it logical that hes a new one. Was he at the battle of the 5 armies?

02-23-2002, 06:59 PM

The only Elves that fought at the battle of five armys were thranduils (sp?) people of Mirkwood I believe, Glorfindel lived in Rivendell, so I don't think he would have been there.

Bruce MacCulloch · 02-23-2002, 08:57 PM

Quote:

If he died at Gondolin isn't it logical that hes a new one.

Read what I posted - it explains some about the "reincarnation" of the elves.

02-19-2002, 11:04 AM	#1
Daegwenn Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 82	Glorfindel; shadow in the background. Glorfindel definetly does not have a major part to play in the Lord of the Rings, yet he has a major part to play in the history of the Elves. I am currently writing a story about him and I am a little confused...I have read plenty about him but the farther I get into my research, the more muddled it gets. Some questions I have are: What status does Glorfindel hold amongst the house of Rivendell? Is he Vanyarin? What about family? Where does he come from? He shows up first and defeats a balrog, but at the same time, dies by throwing it and himself off of a cliff. Was he reincarnated and then returned to ME in time for the War of the Five armies? Is the Glorfindel of Rivendell and the Glorfindel of Gondolin or did JRRT decide to use the name again like he did with Rumil? I know that these questions are quite hard to answer, but if someone could even take a shot in the dark and see if it comes up the same as mine, then it would probably make me a little more confident about my story. I am running around in circles with these questions, trying to figure them out...so hey, any advice would be apprieciated. Sincerely, Daegwenn __________________ "And still of a winter’s night, they say, when the wind is in the trees, When the moon is a ghostly galleon tossed upon cloudy seas, When the road is a ribbon of moonlight over the purple moor, A highwayman comes riding— Riding—Riding— A highwayman comes riding, up to the old inn-door. Over the cobbles he clatters and clangs in the dark inn-yard. And he taps with his whip on the shutters, but all is locked and barred. He whistles a tune to the window, and who should be waiting there But the landlord’s black-eyed daughter, Bess, the landlord’s daughter, Plaiting a dark red love-knot into her long black hair" Highwayman Alfred Noyes

02-19-2002, 11:12 AM	#2
Niphredil Baggins Wight Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 118	I asked this on a board once and got the reply that even Tolkien did not know! Write what you like, that's what I'm doing. ( a Glorfindel fic on the way) __________________ Wistful, willful, wingless, fly!

02-19-2002, 11:16 AM	#3
Bruce MacCulloch Dead Man of Dunharrow Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 651	Actually, Glorfindel is fairly specifically stated to be the same Glorfindel that killed the Balrog and died at the Fall of Gondolin. __________________ `A blunderbuss, was it?' said he, scratching his head. `I thought it was horseflies!'

02-19-2002, 12:17 PM	#5
Daegwenn Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 82	I found this, by the help of a fanfiction that was written and posted on Fanfiction.net, it is about Glorfindel...most of it is pretty good. I think that it would be safe to assume that some of this info is based on fact-some are theories that the writer has been tinkering with as well...It is quite interesting, for those who are interested in learning a bit about Glorfindel's past. article on Glorfindel The elves do believe in Reincarnation, so maybe it did happen...I think Glorfindel has been an enigma to Tolkien, just as he is to most of his fans, and it was a pity that not much is written about him. I think that he is a worthy character of a book or two. I can think of it now... The Adventures of Glorfindel and Gandalf! ... that would be interesting!! ~~Daegwenn [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] __________________ "And still of a winter’s night, they say, when the wind is in the trees, When the moon is a ghostly galleon tossed upon cloudy seas, When the road is a ribbon of moonlight over the purple moor, A highwayman comes riding— Riding—Riding— A highwayman comes riding, up to the old inn-door. Over the cobbles he clatters and clangs in the dark inn-yard. And he taps with his whip on the shutters, but all is locked and barred. He whistles a tune to the window, and who should be waiting there But the landlord’s black-eyed daughter, Bess, the landlord’s daughter, Plaiting a dark red love-knot into her long black hair" Highwayman Alfred Noyes

02-19-2002, 01:05 PM	#7
Carannillion Wight Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Mici Firya Posts: 135	Yes, I think the Glorfindels are one. That seems to be settled around here, anyway. Another thread also came to this conclusion. Glorfindel of Rivendell is Glorfindel from the Fall of Gondolin, "reincarnated" to help in the struggle against Sauron. __________________ A cry for the people, but there's noone there to hear...

02-19-2002, 11:22 AM	#4
Airetauriel Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 47	I don't think this is made clear anywhere in any book but my guess is that Glorfindel of Rivendell is different to Glorfindel of Gondolin (maybe a look at some family trees in the Silmarillion or appendicies would confirm this) They are perhaps related. Perhaps he is not reincarnated but it is the other Glorfindel which returns for the battle of the five armies. Another possiblity is that it is the same person but he returns changed from the encounter with the Balrog much as Gandalf did, returning as white! Gandalf in the Fellowship of the Ring refers to him as an elf-lord when speaking to Elrond. I'm trying to help but I probably haven't! Airetauriel

02-23-2002, 04:29 PM	#8
Tarlondeion Of Gondolin Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Gondolin the fair Posts: 94	If he died at Gondolin isn't it logical that hes a new one. Was he at the battle of the 5 armies?

02-23-2002, 06:59 PM	#9
Dréw Guest Posts: n/a	The only Elves that fought at the battle of five armys were thranduils (sp?) people of Mirkwood I believe, Glorfindel lived in Rivendell, so I don't think he would have been there.