Christianity

[Fosco Burrows]

There seem to be a lot of christians using all the Tolkien forums I've found on the net so far. What attracts them to the stories so much when they believe in a completely different mythology? After all Tolkien wrote these stories as a mythology for us poor old Anglo Saxons who lost our own mythology because of our continual invasion and occupation by such people as the Vikings, the Romans, the Normans during the time up until 1066. This makes the story disagree with the story of Christ in my eyes. I realise this is a slightly inflammatory subject but I hope it is food for thought!
FB

[metropolis_part_one]

No non-christians share the same beliefs as the LotR mythology, so the fact that LotR mythology is different to christian mythology doesn't make it odd that they believe it.
I think christians are attracted to it because it is 'similar' to their religion - LotR has one, all-powerful and all-good God. Also Gandalf has been interpreted as a 'christ' figure by some people. Plus Tolkein was a Christian and LotR espouses many 'good christian virtues' such as loyalty, fealty, friendship, faith (Gandalf has immense faith that Frodo will succeed even against impossible odds) etc.

[Lord of Angmar]

No non-christians share the same beliefs as the LotR mythology

Untrue. The basic morality (self-sacrifice, courage, honor, truthfulness, humbleness over pride, etc.) is reflected for the most part in every major religion today. To say that "no non-Christians" have the same "beliefs" (this is an ambiguous word, since Tolkien did not want the work to convey his specific beliefs so much as his overall moral message) is to do a great disservice to Professor Tolkien.

[Lalaith]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but what I think metropolis meant was that no existing religion actually believes in Eru and the Valar.
Although it is true that the virtues you list are certainly not exclusive to Christians nor indeed to religious people.

[metropolis_part_one]

LaLaith, you are right, that is what I meant. Although I admit I could have been clearer. I certainly did not wish to imply that so-called 'christian' values are not embraced by non-christians, but rather that neither christians nor non-christians share any of the mythological beliefs described in the LotR; therefore I was curious as to why the thread-poster implied that they thought it odd that christians are attracted to thr LotR even though they don't share they same mythological beliefs.

[img]smilies/redface.gif[/img]

[Fosco Burrows]

What I meant was why do christians try to hijack the story when they have their own "story". I sometimes get the feeling that christians will use any excuse to get their message across! I've seen it here and on other tolkien forums. At the end of the day this is a set of stories about a fictional place (ME) I don't believe tolkien set out to preach christian values through it. Maybe christians should use this as their bible, after all its a better story and it actually has greater depth in places!
FB

[Lord of Angmar]

My mistake, I did not mean to misinterpret you, Metropolis. I was merely replying to what I saw.

Fosco, I do not believe that Christian Tolkienites as a whole are in any way trying to "hijack" The Lord of the Rings. Since Tolkien was himself Christian, it is inevitable that some of the morality and ideology of Christianity stand as pillars of his stories. While some may tend to over-interpret in order to "get their message across," for the most part Christian Tolkien fans (particularly on this site) recognize the work as secular in its intentions.

[symestreem]

Fosco, please watch what you say. And there is a good reason Christians will use any "excuse" to get their message across- the message is very important. As for LotR being a better story than the Bible, you are entitled to your own opinion.
Also, Tolkien was creating a world with good guys and bad guys. It's not surprising that the good guys have what he probably considered good traits, and the bad guys have bad traits. Since he was Christian, his "good" traits were probably Christian traits.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 7:34 PM January 11, 2004: Message edited by: symestreem ]

[Arwen Evenstar]

Well said symestreem!
Well, I happen to be a christian myself, and in my opinion, it dosen`t matter what you believe in. LotR is for everyone who wants to read it. Although it seems very real to me (I think I`m a little over obsessed [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] ) I can still believe in my religion. I mean, it`s just a book, right? A very, very, very good book. Oh well. Don`t listen to me, I`m not exactly the smartest person in my grade. I know more about LotR than nearly anything else. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 7:44 PM January 11, 2004: Message edited by: Arwen Evenstar ]

[Finwe]

It's human nature to want to put your own beliefs forward to persuade others, especially with the backing of a famous person, like J.R.R. Tolkien. It would be highly unfair to condemn Christianity for doing that, when each and every other religion in the world has done the same thing. Even though I'm a non-Christian (I'm a non-practicing Hindu), I think Christianity is a beautiful religion. I still tell those who ask me that I do believe in Jesus Christ, I just don't follow his teachings. Now, is that so difficult to admit about other religions? Remember, every religion in this world is based on people, human beings, and human beings make mistakes.

[Lalaith]

I think part of the problem is a cultural difference, if you like. As far as I can make out, evangelism is quite a normal and acceptable part of American life. In Europe, and particularly in the UK, one's religious belief is often seen as more of a private, personal matter, and many people prefer not to discuss it. So to the British viewpoint, posts of an evangelical nature can sometimes feel more aggressive than I think they are intended to be.

[Imladris]

What I meant was why do christians try to hijack the story when they have their own "story". I sometimes get the feeling that christians will use any excuse to get their message across!

Not entirely true, I'm afraid. More than just Christians try to use this story to get their own point across. I knew a family who refused to read LotR because the occult or something used it. It's all a matter of interpretation, really.

Tolkien wrote a great story and people from various religions will see what they want to in the stories and they have the right to do that.

[Fosco Burrows]

For the record can I just say that I don;t mean to offend anybody and I have no problem with people being religious. In England we are very reserved and live very private lives, I wouldn't even know if my neighbour was a practising taoist monk!! I'm sure anyone who has visited our country would be amused by how funny we are about thing like that! I wanted to have a nice little forum discussion and that we have. Sorry to all the people I upset buts it good to be made to think once in a while!! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ElberethVarda]

No, Tolkien didn't write LOTR as a Christian allegory, but it still has some very good themes in it. Loyalty, love, friendship,, co-operation... The list goes on and on. Just because a someone is a Christian doesn't mean they only read Christian books. I think LOTR is an awesome, imaginative story. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Lalaith]

To anyone who feels up to taking in a highly scholarly, yet fascinating discussion on this issue, I recommend this thread: http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin...c&f=1&t=001436

[Elvish Archer]

I myself and a Christian and have no qualms reading a good book. Thus why should there be a conflict of interest if we wish to read and greatly enjoy such classics as LotR? I read other classics such as the Illiad, Oddessy, and Aenid. I definately do not agree with their theology and my beliefs remain intact but I still enjoy such works as these.

I would also question your source of information when you say:

Tolkien wrote these stories as a mythology for us poor old Anglo Saxons who lost our own mythology because of our continual invasion and occupation by such people as the Vikings, the Romans, the Normans during the time up until 1066

And, assuming you are correct in your posulation of Tolkien's intent, I fail to see how the story of the LotR conflicts or disagrees with the story of Christ.

Also, if I remember correctly, your Anglo-Saxon heritage? Was Christian.


Vaya con Dios
EA

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 1:27 AM January 13, 2004: Message edited by: Elvish Archer ]

[Fosco Burrows]

It would be hard for the early Brits to be christian when the religion only started in the year 0AD, even then it would take a while to get into the British Isles from the Holy land! I saw a documentary a couple of years ago about The Tolkien Society who are based here and that was where it was mentioned about our lack of mythology in England and JRR Tolkiens wish to create such a thing.
There is a Celtic mythology that the Welsh, Scots and Irish followed but all the English have is a couple of stone circles (eg Stonehenge).

[Lalaith]

I think Anglo Saxon mythology was quite similar to Viking/Norse, all being Germanic.
However, Fosco is quite right that Tolkien did want to create a mythology for England. It strikes me that there are two seperate discussions going on here: on the one hand, can Christians read and love Tolkien with a good conscience, and on the other, can/should direct Christian analogies and metaphors be extrapolated from the text.
I think Fosco's original point relates more to the latter than the former point, but I'm sure he can answer that better than I can.
Oh and with regard to the virtues being discussed, I would put things like fealty and friendship as pagan/Germanic virtues. Oathbreaking, and failure to honour the laws of hospitality and friendship were two of the greatest sins of old Germanic society.
(Obviously that is NOT to say that these virtues are not also important to Christians, Hindus, Muslims and all good people in general)

[aleesa]

I think we should just enjoy the LotR regardless of our religions. There are many virtues that are in the book which are universal yet the book is also full of myth and imagination. I think, we should appreciate Tolkien's work for what it is, not debating or upholding beliefs what religions that can be best associated with LotR. I think all almost all religions practise, in one way or another the ideals and virtues found in the book. There are also certain similiarities between a couple of religions in the world with Christianity if anyone did a little research, but that's another story.
But that's just my opinion. Anyway, this matter was already discussed somewhere in another threat I think. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Sharkû]

The Archive Index has been updated with an index of threads dealing with this topic. I recommend reading them.

[Erundil]

I am most certainly a Christian, and I love all of Prof. Tolkien's writings, not just those pertaining to Middle-Earth. But, I'm a sucker for good writing in general, so that doesn't really mean that much.
Since Lalaith has extracted two questions from this discussion, I'll attempt to answer both as fully as I can in my sophoric state.
1.) Can Christians read and love Tolkien with a good conscience? Absolutely! There stands in the book nothing that I can think of that is discordant with the faith of our Fathers. I think that some are labouring under a minor delusion. They think that as Christians, we aren't allowed to read, listen to, or watch anything if it isn't explicitly Christian. Nothing could be further from the truth. When God became incarnate in the Man Christ, He came to not only save the soul, but to save the entire man and indeed, the entire creation. We, as imitatores of Christ, are called to influence every area of society for the better, not just by what we say, but by what we do and how we live.
A mark of a true disciple of Christ is the ability of finding something worth saving in everything. He obviously did. Even if Tolkien was an avowed atheist who swore to never mention relgion ever (any atheists out there, I don't mean to offend. I was one once too.), I would still read and love his works, for they are filled with examples that anyone can follow. Now, obviously, if Tolkien hadn't been a devout Roman Catholic, he would have written very different literature. However, as it stands, the works of Tolkien show forth vitures that all people know, for they are part of our very make-up.
2.) Can/should direct Christian analogies and metaphors be extrapolated from the text? I don't think they should. Tolkien specifically denied writing an allegory of any kind. He left that to his fellow Inkling C.S. Lewis. However, are there things that can be taken as allegories or metaphors if one wants to? Of course, as there are in all great tales. I think the greatest measure of Tolkien's success lies in the fact that his works can have such an impact on all areas of life, if one takes to heart the virtues that it teaches. In the same way, if men followed half of the instructions of any of the great philosophers, the world would be a much better place. If we really thought about the things that the great writers of yesteryear, be they Tolstoy, Faulkner, Milton, Shakespeare, Homer, or any other, we could indeed change our lives and grow to be more like God.
We as Christians make a distinction between 'general' and 'special' revelation. General revelation is that which is granted to all men, be it through nature, conscience, or great writings. Special revelation is that which is granted to Christians through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the teachings of the Scriptures and the writings of the Fathers. A measure of the evangelium is granted to everyone; one need not go to a church, open a Bible, or hear a preacher to find it. It is given to all without distinction. It falls to each to notice it and act on it.
And now, I leave you, for I have written more than enough, and I am about ready to fall asleep at the keyboard. Good night, and keep asking questions.

I'm coming into this conversation as a newbie and Christian, rather late. As I Christian I was very drawn to the movie and later the books. I see both Christian values and a very conservative political theme running through the LOTR. Not to say that other faiths hold many of the same ethical values, but I saw a lot of "Bible" in there for lack of a better term off the top of my head. I read the Silmarillion, and in the first few pages I saw plenty.
I will refer you to a website that shows the similarities. I found it very much in line with what I was thinking.
Daisy's Hobbit Hole
I guess you will just have to put up with us Christians on these forums.

[Selmo]

I'm a Christian and I love Tolkien's books.
I probably know more about Lord of the Rings than many parts of the Bible. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

When I'm reading LoTR or Silmarilion I don't see any links to my faith. I realy believe in Eru Iluvatar, the Valar, immortal Elves and incarnate evil, through the process of "suspended disbelief". It's only later, when I reflect on what I've read, that I can look for links to anything outside the stories.

I can see very little that is specifically Christian in the books. The Christian virtues that are there are the ones we share with pre-Christian religions. I don't see much evidence for "love your enemies, do good to those who hate you" or "turn the other cheek".

If you want to read about the Christian faith, read the Bible, not Tolkien.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 7:15 AM January 15, 2004: Message edited by: Selmo ]

[Ainaserkewen]

Selmo's right. There isn't a whole lot of parallels between LOTR and our faith(I'm Catholic) although alot of people would say there were. I don't really believe that's what Tolkien was trying to accomplish. Anywho, I would like to say that if Christians can use this story to push their believes(as some have said) that that can be said for many religions. If you come right down to the basics of it, Good against evil, all love and peace, and no wars, sounds like most religions to me, without getting into the god stuff. People who get into the nitty-gritty stuff often find the problems that wouldn't have surfaced unless they put them in the open. I hate that reality. Instead of looking for differences in people, look for similarities. Makes life a whole lot easier. I'm with Selmo to, when I say that sadly I do know more about LOTR then the Bible. What can I say, if Tolkien had written the Bible, I'd read the whole darn thing [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] (Don't quote me on that)

What attracts them to the stories so much when they believe in a completely different mythology?

Ahh, a good question. It actually has something to do with my signature. I'm atracked to the stories(and fantasy in general) because the idea of living in this world fasinates me. That's what I mean by Escape. People, not just christians feel the same way. Like back in the middle-ages(real history) people were obsessed with religion and the afterlife because their lives sucked. Not saying that our lives are awful(at least not as bad as the peasants) but these stories fill a small void that we ourselves wish for adventure.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 6:34 PM January 15, 2004: Message edited by: Ainaserkewen ]

[The Saucepan Man]

Anywho, I would like to say that if Christians can use this story to push their believes(as some have said) that that can be said for many religions. If you come right down to the basics of it, Good against evil, all love and peace, and no wars, sounds like most religions to me, without getting into the god stuff.

You don't even need to be religious to embrace the values espoused by Tolkien in his works. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Rider of Rohan]

I ran across this quote of Tolkien (I dont think it is direct but it could be close...it is from Humphrey Carpenter's J.R.R. Tolkien) I figured that it might be useful to here what Tolkien says about his mythology and every mythology (Anglo-Saxon, Norse, etc) for that matter.

We have come from God, and inevitably the myths woven by us, thought they contain error, will also reflect a splintered fragmentof the true light, the eternal truth that is with God. Indeed only in mythmaking, only in becoming a "sub-creator" and inventing stories, can Man aspire to the state of perfection that he knew before the fall. Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbor

I think that he is saying here that all myths lead us to God on some way (the general revelation mentioned above). His myth is no different except that it is written by a devout Christian man and therefore one step closer to the true God...no wonder Christians like it. It is great literature written by "one of us." We have the two greatest selling books of the century the Bible and LOTR...that is cause for celebration in the Christian community.
All that to say, I know that he was not writing allegorically and he was not writing symbolically but inevitably his beliefs are going to come out in his writings and lead us to the true harbor.
And besides I hope it is an encouragement to the non-Christian community to see that we are not a bunch of cloistered prudes but people who love a good story and great characters just as much as anyone else.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 11:40 PM January 15, 2004: Message edited by: Rider of Rohan ]

[The Only Real Estel]

can Christians read and love Tolkien with a good conscience, and on the other, can/should direct Christian analogies and metaphors be extrapolated from the text.

As to the first question, Why couldn't Christians read & love RotK with a good conscience? And as to the other, Tolkien himself said that he left the books & any allegories/parellels in them up to the reader & his/her imagination/inspection. I see no reason why metaphors can't be derived from his works...especially since he himself addimitted there were indeed metaphors there (although he wasn't trying to incorperate them in, anytime you believe something, it carries over).

This is an interesting topic for me to view, seeing as how I am what most might consider "Christian". I am interested in the "Lord of the Rings" series, and it is a very nice work of literature that Tolkien wrote. There is no problem with searching for metaphors that can relate to one's beliefs, but the only way one can really see a metaphor is to understand what the author's viewpoint of life was. You need to understand what his intention was while writing the book. I assume that Tolkien's greatest intention to write the book was... probably to make it interesting and magnificent; to send the reader into a world that isn't ours, and to simply make a great piece of literature. He could've used elements from his religion, and from his morals, but we don't know wether or not he really intended to tell people of Christ's death for our sins. It's ok for people to explain their viewpoint of a story. It helps to look at things from a different point of view... how are you supposed to discover any truths without keeping an open mind to what people have to say?

I'd like to add also, so you may continue the topic, something that may offend you, but I just want to give people a clear view of what the Bible explains christianity to be:
Daniel, a prophet who lived during the time when Babylon took over Jerusalem under king Nebuchadnezzar, prophesied the coming of what the Jews called 'Messiah'. He prophesied this:
"... from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be 7 sevens and 62 sevens..." "...then after the 62 sevens the Messiah will be cut off..."*
Daniel made that prophecy more than a thousand years before Christ's birth.. Christ was probably born not long before the AD years, and lived a perfect life. He was born in a manger, and lived as a servant for his parents. When he grew up, he served the sick and diseased, healing each one who had faith that Jesus was, infact, this "Messiah" character. He called 12 to be his apostles and they followed him everywhere he went, learning from him and writing about their three years with him. Everyone knew about Jesus(seeing as he healed incurable diseases), so if the apostles wrote anything wrong down, then someone would definitely be sure to know. But anyway, as I was saying, the bible explains that Jesus went around teaching what the pharisees considered "blasphemous" doctrine, and was in the end betrayed by Judas (one of the twelve disciples), brung to Pontius Pilate, where they released Barabbas, a murderer, instead of Jesus. They spit and beat him up, and was then scourged (beaten with a metal-tipped whip from head to toe) He then had a crown of thorns placed on his head, and was forced to carry a tree to the top of a hill (he had the help of one of his apostles), where he was then nailed to the tree, where he ultimately died. The bible also teaches that he was risen on the third day and that he ascended, returning to where he came from. Christianity points out that Jesus saw what was going to happen before it happened, but became obedient to it, and went through it not for his glory, but for us. Jesus died so that he could give us a gift. Wether you believe such a thing or not does not discern wether it's truth or not, but I'll leave you to your thoughts. I just wanted to get the point across at what christianity was, seeing as how this is a topic on christianity.

*Daniel uses the term "sevens" to refer to a group of seven years. 7 + 62 sevens = 69
69 x 7 = 483 years. The decree came in 445 B.C. from Artaxerxes, the King of Persia. So, using 360-day years, as the Hebrews did, we add 483 years and come to A.D. 32(plus or minus 1.5 years)

[Sparrow]

I'm not sure why people think this is a touchy subject. Tolkien was a Catholic, and his work was "consciously [Catholic] in the revision." While he "thoroughly dislike[d] allegory in all of its manifestations," surely the fact that he imbued his works with Catholic morals makes it open to religious interpretation to an extent. However, since the morals expressed in The Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion are for the most part the base morals of major religion as we know it today, and since with no level of specificity does Tolkien equate his characters with Biblical figures, there is no reason why people of any religion can't enjoy it and glean from it what they will.

~Sparrow

[Kaiserin]

Brilliant literature is brilliant literature - people will naturally appreciate what is good or excellent, whether they ar Christian or Jewish or Hindu or Atheistic. I don't see anything wrong with Christians being attracted to Tolkien's work even if "they believe in a completely different mythology". [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] They probably just like it because it is superbly written.

Tolkien has stated that he never intended any allegories or symbolisms, but it is observable that his works reflect his Christian values - goodness, moral uprightness, mercy, et. al... All these things that we label as "Christian" aren't exclusive to the Christian faith. For example, goodness is always appreciated; it is upheld by all societies that people must be morally upright; selfishness and greed are never admired. It is not only the Christian "mythology" that believes in a supreme deity, fallen angels and divine saviors.

It may be a hasty generallization to say that Christians use Tolkien's work to get their message accross. I don't really see how this is possible since LOTR has absolutely nothing to do with Christ or the Bible, no matter which perspective you view it from. Readers may feel free to try to interpret the text in any which way they would like to, but there are few if no direct, perfect Christian metaphors or analogies to be found. Insisting that there are would make those analogies inconsistent

(Just an unrelated note: Not all Christians are crazy about LOTR).

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 4:50 AM January 17, 2004: Message edited by: Kaiserin ]

[elsye]

In the book (I think it's called) the letters of Tolkien, one of the letters mentions that the books are not allegorical but that they are Topical. since they are topical, they can be applied to almost any culture. the virtues and morals that take place in the trilogy are therefore a reminder to those individuals of people in their lives who were similar to the characters in LOTR. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Knight of Gondor]

Good topic, Fosco. I’ve often wondered if there would be a way to start a topic merely asking which others of the board shared my faith, but this is a good way while discussing an issue, too! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

You ask what attracts us to the story. I’d say that it is similar to Lewis’s Chronicles of Narnia. Both Tolkien and Lewis had faith in Jesus Christ, and both allowed that faith to be displayed through their books.

You might say that the story disagrees with the story of Christ’s birth, death, and resurrection, perhaps. After all, the Bible provides a somewhat clear history up unto the birth of Christ. But, it is supposed to be fiction. I believe I read that Tolkien was rather sad at the lack of the rich cultural mythology that many other nations held, and, even if it was fiction, decided to compose some of his own.

I think christians are attracted to it because it is 'similar' to their religion - LotR has one, all-powerful and all-good God.

You might say that, but it goes further. The author himself is a Christian, and his faith, like it or not, shines through in many places.

Also Gandalf has been interpreted as a 'christ' figure by some people.

That’s quite true. But while Lewis’s Aslan totally encompasses and is the role of Christ, Tolkien “split” it to so speak. Being that he did not wish to have complete allegory (i.e. the Ring equals a nuclear bomb...it doesn’t equal it, but it is similar to it), he inserted things as “applicable” and “parallel” to not only political ideas (internal combustion engine is Saruman’s baby) but Christian as well. While Gandalf does not equal Christ, by sacrificing himself to save the rest, resurrecting, and being a wizard of great power to aid the Quest, he occupies one position of Christ. One person in a Lord of the Rings Sunday school class (turn green with envy, you guys! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ) I attended put it that Gandalf occupies the position of Prophet, one of the three offices of Christ. Frodo, bearing the sin away from the “camp” as it were, is similar to the Priest, who made atonement for the sins of Israel. And anyone can guess who occupies the King position. By living a life that seemed too plain and obscure, by taking hold of his destiny, by treading the paths where only the dead trod, and by setting them free, victorious over the Dark Lord in the end, and restoring the White City to order, Aragorn more than qualifies for that position.

Plus Tolkein was a Christian and LotR espouses many 'good christian virtues' such as loyalty, fealty, friendship, faith (Gandalf has immense faith that Frodo will succeed even against impossible odds) etc.

Quite true.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but what I think metropolis meant was that no existing religion actually believes in Eru and the Valar.

Or, God and His servants, the angels. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Although it is true that the virtues you list are certainly not exclusive to Christians nor indeed to religious people.

That’s true...but the world would be a virtual Mordor without the influence that Christianity exclusively had (and has!) on the modern world. Modern Science was begat primarily by Christians. Modern medicine was begun and developed largely by Christians. (The pagans of the era saw no other need than to bring the sick to their false god temples, which only magnified and spread the illness) Most charitable establishments and organizations are Christian-based too. The Red Cross (hello, it's a cross), The Salvation Army (Salvation doesn’t exist without a savior), the YMCA (What's that C stand for again?), Habitat for Humanity, the list goes on. But I digress.

What I meant was why do christians try to hijack the story when they have their own "story". I sometimes get the feeling that christians will use any excuse to get their message across! I've seen it here and on other tolkien forums. At the end of the day this is a set of stories about a fictional place (ME) I don't believe tolkien set out to preach christian values through it. Maybe christians should use this as their bible, after all its a better story and it actually has greater depth in places!

You make a good point, but I disagree utterly that Christians have “hijacked” the story. With all due respect, that is an absurd claim. Tolkien was a believer, albeit a Catholic (not that it was a bad thing...some Catholics accept Jesus as Savior, some don’t). His Catholicism, if you ask me, shines through the clearest in the worshipful mentioning of Elbereth Gilthoniel. (Mother Mary?)

While some may tend to over-interpret in order to "get their message across," for the most part Christian Tolkien fans (particularly on this site) recognize the work as secular in its intentions.

It is also inevitable that a board as large and diverse as this is going to gather many Christians who enjoy the series. Because those in the Christian community who enjoy Tolkien make up a large part of the Lord of the Rings fanship.

LotR is for everyone who wants to read it.

Quite true indeed. No one says “Look, if you’re not a Christian, you can’t like Lord of the Rings.” It’s just that for Christians, there are far greater principles and entertainment to be gleaned.

I think Christianity is a beautiful religion. I still tell those who ask me that I do believe in Jesus Christ, I just don't follow his teachings.

Since this isn’t a theological discussion, but about how Christianity pertains to Tolkien, I’ll say two things to you. First, PM me. Second is a quote from C.S. Lewis...or at least an idea summed up by the guy. Jesus Christ is either a dead liar, a dead lunatic, or the living Son of God.

. I knew a family who refused to read LotR because the occult or something used it. It's all a matter of interpretation, really

While respecting the decision of some families, I disagree and tend to think it is merely due to ignorance. I nearly guarantee that you show me a family that disagrees with Lord of the Rings, and I’ll show you the same family is against Harry Potter. The problem is, they fail to see the Christian values and underlying concepts ingrained in Lord of the Rings. Whereas Harry is a wizard who uses manipulation of earthly elements for his own desires (whether they be good or bad I cannot say; I have not seen Harry ever since Gandalf kicked his butt), but Gandalf’s wizardry is a gift from God, really.

I think we should just enjoy the LotR regardless of our religions. There are many virtues that are in the book which are universal yet the book is also full of myth and imagination. I think, we should appreciate Tolkien's work for what it is, not debating or upholding beliefs what religions that can be best associated with LotR.

I agree and disagree. This isn’t a debating board (unfortunately, [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ), so we should not attempt to hash religious differences out. (At least on here...anyone who wants to talk/challenge me, please PM me!) But I don’t think there’s any question which religion lines up the best with Tolkien’s works. It may not be extremely clear merely by reading the trilogy...but try some of Tolkien’s essays. This is a quote from Tolkien: God is the God of Men, of Angels...and of Elves. (Paraphrased, but quite accurate)

For more on this subject, I suggest checking out these books. I am currently reading The Gospel According to Tolkien, by the way, so it’s interesting that this topic should come up.

The Gospel According to Tolkien, Walking With Frodo, Sanctifying Myth: Understanding Middle-Earth, Following Gandalf.

[Sharkû]

That's done it. JRR Tolkien and Christianity may have gone hand in hand, but this board is for Middle-earth discussion solely.