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what was the name Gandalf gives the demon he slays atop mountains of moria.How many generations has Gandalf walked middle earth.thanks mailto:tccrowther@hotmail.comtccrowther@hotmail.com</A> [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]

[Sharkû]

Gandalf doesn't name said demon. His name/title is "Durin's Bane" (for causing the dwarf lords of that name a lot of trouble), and his 'class' is that of a Balrog.

Gandalf, having existed in the world since its beginning, came to Middle-Earth some 2000 years before the Ring War acccording to Appendix B.

Please don't expect to receive answers by e-mail, and do bear in mind that you should read the book yourself, especially if it is for school.

[Marroc Underhill]

"300 lives of men I have walked this earth and now I have no time"~~~ Gandalf as he rides from Edoras. I'd say Gandalf was around 3000 years, not 2000. And I have a book (had a book) that said he came to M.E. 3000 years before the War of the Ring. The Balrog, Durin's Bane, was given the name Durin's Bane after waking up after almost 2 full ages. He killed the dwarf king and his son I believe. The dwarves of Moria named it Durin's Bane and packed up there bags. Mean old cranky Balrog!

[Sharkû]

I have a book which says "The Third Age. [...] When maybe a thousand years had passed, and the first shadow had fallen on Greenwood the Great, the Istari or Wizards appeared in Middle-earth."
Its name: The Lord of the Rings.

You quoted the movie.

[Mithadan]

There's a book? [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

[Lord of Angmar]

Three hundred lives of men would be closer to 2000 years than 3000 anyhow, unless you are speaking of Gondorian men. Most of the men in Middle Earth circa the War of the Ring had ages comparable to that of today's lifespans or even the spans of life when Tolkien was growing up (which would probably be lower).

Gandalf also refers to the balrog as 'Flame of Udun' in Moria, referring to the balrog's assumed birthplace in Morgoth's Utumno.
[ September 24, 2003: Message edited by: Lord of Angmar ]

[ September 24, 2003: Message edited by: Lord of Angmar ]

[The Saucepan Man]

what was the name Gandalf gives the demon he slays atop mountains of moria

When he confronts the Balrog on the bridge of Khazad-Dum, Gandalf calls it "Flame of Udûn". Udûn is Sinarin for "The Pit" or "The Underworld", from the Quenya "Utumno", ie the first Realm of Morgoth. So, it was a reference based upon the Balrog's form and history, rather than a name.

[Iarwain]

When and how do men die after an approximate ten years, or (by Angmar and Sharku's judgement) seven years? Three hundred lives of men in three thousand years comes out to a lot less than we might like to think. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] So, we have to presume that either someone misquoted Gandalf in "The White Rider", or the "3000 years" and "2000 years" estimates are a long way off. Or, a third choice is that Valinor is still considered land, and therefore Gandalf walked the earth incarnate for an unknown period of time. Generationally, each person has to live at least 14 years before reproducing, so that still puts us at 4200 years.

Just thought I'd contribute.

Iarwain

[ September 24, 2003: Message edited by: Iarwain ]

[Lord of Angmar]

You are, of course, right Iarwain. I seem to have mis-calculated by a decimal place (math was never a strong point of mine [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] ). I suppose then that Gandalf's statement in the movie, if it is to be reconcilable with the book, also included Valinor (hmm... although Valinor has presumably been around for much longer than 300 lives of men). It seems that not only was I wrong in my calculation, but Peter Jackson made a mistake with the statement.

[Sharkû]

"(by Angmar and Sharku's judgement)"

I never said that he had "walked this earth" for "300 lives of men". Ian McKellen said that.

If we wanted to, we could make sense of this line by taking it to mean that Gandalf had been 'there' for 300 lives of men, but not necessarily in Middle-earth. Imbar need not be synonymous with Endor. Perhaps it is meant to imply that Men have been around for 300 of their life-spans, whatever.

[ September 24, 2003: Message edited by: Sharkû ]

How do you pm someone? [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]

[Yavanna228]

A quick way to do that is find a post from the person to whom you wish to send a PM, find the little icon that looks like two people with a dotted line between them. Click that, then send your PM! And it's just that easy. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
Peace

Thank you!