Why do the horses of the Rohan tolerate the Nine Kings? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Anne S · 09-16-2003, 05:48 AM

It mentions in the The Two Towers that some of the black horses bred in Rohan were given in tribute to Mordor, some becoming mounts for the Nine Kings. Why did the horses tolerate the Kings? It seems that animals fear these wraiths, as in FOTR when Farmer Maggot recounts to Frodo that his dogs fled in terror and his geese started screaming when the Black Rider appeared. In the movies, the horses ridden by the wraiths are shown with blood trickling down their legs, I guess as a result of vicious spurring by its rider. Why did the Rohirrim give up their much prized horses to go to a land of darkness to be subjected to fear and abuse?

***Sharkû*** · 09-16-2003, 07:12 AM

<font size="-2">"'Then you do not pay tribute to Sauron?' said Gimli.
'We do not and we never have.' said Éomer with a flash of his eyes; 'though it comes to my ears that that lie has been told. Some years ago the Lord of the Black Land wished to purchase horses of us at great price, but we refused him. for he puts beasts to evil use. Then he sent plundering Orcs, and they carry off what they can, choosing always the black horses: few of these are now left. For that reason our feud with the Orcs is bitter." (LotR, III, ii)

As for those horses tolerating their riders, fear seems the simple reason. There is a difference between the terror a Nazgûl want want to spread on a battlefield, and the fear he presumably could use to break in a horse. Plus it's probably better than becoming orkish stew [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Ophelia · 09-18-2003, 12:53 PM

I agree with Sharkū . Horses can feel the person on them and those horses knew what could they do if they refuse to do as they are told and it really was fear that drove them . And I would not call them horses anymore . More like mindless , feelingless shell of a horse with broken mind and broken spirit .
I allready tryed to explain this on the chat but after all my long explanations they only said "wha?" so I don't suppose you will get my idea too .

Anne S · 09-19-2003, 03:59 AM

On the contrary, I would agree with you about the fact that the Ringwraiths probably broke their horse's minds and spirits. I used to work with horses and have owned horses so I can appreciate that it is possible to break a horse's spirit through a campaign of abuse. It's just that the horses must have started out with strong minds and spirits and rather than allow themselves to be treated so viciously, would have chosen to die instead. It used to happen sometimes "in the old days" when horses were a means of transport and not kept for the love of them.

You had to feel a little sorry for those horses when they perished in the flood near Rivendell. I wonder if Glorfindel's horse Asfaloth, if captured (yes I know wrong colour but even so) would have allowed himself to be treated in the same way?

lathspell · 09-19-2003, 09:04 AM

It also says somewhere in LotR that the horses of the Nazgul were bread in Mordor itself, under the very terror of the Nazgul.

greetings,
lathspell

SamwiseGamgee · 09-19-2003, 01:06 PM

I agree with the last post also. I can't remember exactly where, but gandalf denies that Rohan gives any horses to Sauron. It may be that the horses are stolen, but I'm pretty sure not. I'll get back to you on that though.

Ophelia · 09-20-2003, 02:05 AM

Hay Anne S ! I'm glad to see another horse lover [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] But a horses spirit can be broken and it has something that does not let it just wait for it's doom and that thing is the instinct of survivol . The hope for better days .
And this might be off the topic but I know cases when horses are treated ve-e-errry bad and they move on only in fear of being harmed . A bright example of what happens with a horse at Mordor [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

09-16-2003, 05:48 AM	#1
Anne S Pile O'Bones Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 19	Why do the horses of the Rohan tolerate the Nine Kings? It mentions in the The Two Towers that some of the black horses bred in Rohan were given in tribute to Mordor, some becoming mounts for the Nine Kings. Why did the horses tolerate the Kings? It seems that animals fear these wraiths, as in FOTR when Farmer Maggot recounts to Frodo that his dogs fled in terror and his geese started screaming when the Black Rider appeared. In the movies, the horses ridden by the wraiths are shown with blood trickling down their legs, I guess as a result of vicious spurring by its rider. Why did the Rohirrim give up their much prized horses to go to a land of darkness to be subjected to fear and abuse?

09-18-2003, 12:53 PM	#3
Ophelia Wight Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: somewhere between the sacred , silence and sweet . Posts: 169	I agree with Sharkū . Horses can feel the person on them and those horses knew what could they do if they refuse to do as they are told and it really was fear that drove them . And I would not call them horses anymore . More like mindless , feelingless shell of a horse with broken mind and broken spirit . I allready tryed to explain this on the chat but after all my long explanations they only said "wha?" so I don't suppose you will get my idea too . __________________ I didn't lose my mind . It was mine to give away .

09-19-2003, 09:04 AM	#5
lathspell Regenerating Ringkeeper Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 757	It also says somewhere in LotR that the horses of the Nazgul were bread in Mordor itself, under the very terror of the Nazgul. greetings, lathspell __________________ 'You?' cried Frodo. 'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.'

09-19-2003, 01:06 PM	#6
SamwiseGamgee Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In the warm bosom of a Warg Posts: 378	I agree with the last post also. I can't remember exactly where, but gandalf denies that Rohan gives any horses to Sauron. It may be that the horses are stolen, but I'm pretty sure not. I'll get back to you on that though. __________________ -- Well, I'm back.

09-20-2003, 02:05 AM	#7
Ophelia Wight Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: somewhere between the sacred , silence and sweet . Posts: 169	Hay Anne S ! I'm glad to see another horse lover [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] But a horses spirit can be broken and it has something that does not let it just wait for it's doom and that thing is the instinct of survivol . The hope for better days . And this might be off the topic but I know cases when horses are treated ve-e-errry bad and they move on only in fear of being harmed . A bright example of what happens with a horse at Mordor [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] __________________ I didn't lose my mind . It was mine to give away .

09-16-2003, 07:12 AM	#2
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	<font size="-2">"'Then you do not pay tribute to Sauron?' said Gimli. 'We do not and we never have.' said Éomer with a flash of his eyes; 'though it comes to my ears that that lie has been told. Some years ago the Lord of the Black Land wished to purchase horses of us at great price, but we refused him. for he puts beasts to evil use. Then he sent plundering Orcs, and they carry off what they can, choosing always the black horses: few of these are now left. For that reason our feud with the Orcs is bitter." (LotR, III, ii) As for those horses tolerating their riders, fear seems the simple reason. There is a difference between the terror a Nazgûl want want to spread on a battlefield, and the fear he presumably could use to break in a horse. Plus it's probably better than becoming orkish stew [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

09-19-2003, 03:59 AM	#4
Anne S Pile O'Bones Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 19	On the contrary, I would agree with you about the fact that the Ringwraiths probably broke their horse's minds and spirits. I used to work with horses and have owned horses so I can appreciate that it is possible to break a horse's spirit through a campaign of abuse. It's just that the horses must have started out with strong minds and spirits and rather than allow themselves to be treated so viciously, would have chosen to die instead. It used to happen sometimes "in the old days" when horses were a means of transport and not kept for the love of them. You had to feel a little sorry for those horses when they perished in the flood near Rivendell. I wonder if Glorfindel's horse Asfaloth, if captured (yes I know wrong colour but even so) would have allowed himself to be treated in the same way?