If Saruman...

[Gil Galad]

If Saruman never came into posession of the palantir he had would he have become corrupted by Sauron?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Not as quickly, or directly. However, I suppose that he was always quite devious from the start. Hence, his unhealthy fixation with Ring-lore added to his jealousy of Gandalf meant that he was always likely to cause some trouble. But the Palantir was probably the 'final nail' so to speak.

[Knight of Gondor]

I don't remember at what point Saruman began gazing into the Palantir, but we know his treachery did indeed extend beyond that...even during the time of The Hobbit. It was Ring-lust that first snared him...it was alliance with Sauron that sealed him.

[Finwe]

That would be like saying, would Denethor have been all happy and rosy if he had never looked into the palantir. It was just part of his nature to want to be better than everyone else, and the same thing applies to Saruman. The latter had always been jealous of Gandalf, and that jealousy drove him to want to constantly best Gandalf at whatever he did.

[Knight of Gondor]

Yeah, I'll admit the question is moot and useless, but sometimes it's fun to speculate on what would have happened.

[Kalimac]

I agree with Eomer - it would have happened, just not so quickly and efficiently. Saruman spent a long time studying the art of the enemy, originally in order to use it to fight him, but he seems to have fallen into the trap wherein if you try to think like your enemy for too long, you end up by becoming your enemy. Without the Palantir he probably would not have been as actively opposed to the forces of Gondor and Rohan, but he would have done his best to make things sticky, to wring some sort of advantage out of it.

In fact, when you think about it, his lack of a palantir could have been a stroke of bad luck for Gandalf & Co. Saruman seems to have had the ring-lust before he had the Palantir (at least, he counseled against others searching for it, possibly so he could have a shot at it himself) and had he not been emboldened by his communication with Sauron, he might not have shown his hand so early. Gandalf may even have given him information about where the Ring was, and who knows what the result of that would have been.

[rutslegolas]

i tottaly agree with -kalimac but if saruman had not got the palantir then i think gandalf wuldnt have suspected him of betrayel and that would have been disastorious for the fellowship

but it could also have been otherwise
if saruman had not got the palantir then i guess his lust for power would not have grown
and he would be the ally of gandalf and co.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 1:59 AM January 31, 2004: Message edited by: rutslegolas ]

[Eorl of Rohan]

rutslegolas, I don't understand you.

Gandalf did not know that Saruman possessed a palantir until long after his betrayal became known. So how could it be disastrous for the fellowship if Saruman did not possess a palantir?

[rutslegolas]

soory about that last message -eorl of rohan is right

but if saruman hadnt got the palantir then he wouldnt have gone bad i guess so that would have been a great help to the fellowship

and because saruman had the palantir the dark lord was confused wheteher saruman had betrayed him or not?