The strange intuitiveness of Hobbits - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Keeper of Dol Guldur · 10-08-2002, 02:59 PM

I don't post often about Hobbits (I haven't posted often in nearly four months, thank god for you people), but I couldn't help after reading LOTR for the fourteenth time that hobbits are unusually good at knowing peoples moods. Pippin can almost see the tension between Gandalf and Denethor (which may or may not have been obvious), Merry knew before Theoden that Eowyn (bold as she was) had been crying over Aragorn's fate in the Paths of the Dead. And let's not even begin about Frodo or Sam, both of whom are so intuitive they trusted Faramir from the beginning (nearly). Anyone else notice this?

Mattius · 10-08-2002, 03:04 PM

Well, Tolkien did base them losely on British people.

Diamond18 · 10-08-2002, 05:00 PM

Tolkien was telling his story through the eyes of hobbits, so if there was anything he wanted us to know about the other characters, without them just saying it out loud, it was natural for him to have the hobbits intuitive about it.

I think most main characters in novels will strike people as quite intuitive. They are, after all, the eyes, ears and mouth of the author.

Arwen Imladris · 10-08-2002, 06:34 PM

I don't think that they were really that intuitive, not any more then any of us anyway. I suspect that the Denethor-Gandalf thing was pretty obvious as was Eowyns crying. The hobbits were pretty desparate by the time they met Faramir. I'm sure that you can think of a few people who you just sort of know that you can trust, Faramir is one of those people.

Daisy Sandybanks · 10-08-2002, 07:23 PM

This is just my opinion, obviously, but I tend to think that Hobbits were intuitive because they were so intune with nature. Their whole lives revoled around nature, they lived in the ground, got their food from the earth itself, named their children after native plants/flowers, and even wore colors to match their surroundings.
Think of them a little hippies, being one with nature thus inhancing their instinctiveness towards others emotions or feelings.
But there are the Elves as well, who, just as the Hobbits, live their lives around natures creations. Are Elves just as intuitive as Hobbits?

merlilot · 10-08-2002, 07:41 PM

I think that since they really didn't spend whole lot of time doing book learning, but rather spent most of their lives talking to and otherwise spending time with other people that they developed a talent for seeing how a person felt. I mean, that determines how you pose questions, what you say and in what manner you say it, so if they wanted to be socially successful, it was imperative that they could tell this kind of thing. Not to mention that the Denethor/Gandalf thing was obvious, Éowyn's distress was rather obvious, and Sam and Frodo were bound to be at least cautiously trusting of anyone they met. And Faramir IS the kind of guy you just know that you can trust right away.

Evenstar1 · 10-08-2002, 08:48 PM

Hmmm. I always thought of hobbits as very child-like. And children pick up on everything! They are always very aware of the emotions around them and they have good instincts for trusting people. (This would explain Frodo & Sam's trust of Faramir, Merry picking up on Eowyn's feelings before Theoden, etc.)

But I do also like Diamond18's point about the main character/author perspective. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

elfling · 10-09-2002, 09:46 PM

I think most of the characters seem pretty intuitive, that whole "through the eyes of the author" thing, but what about Sam and Frodo and Gollum. Who was more intuitive Sam or Frodo or did they both just see different sides of the same coin( the good and bad of Golllum)?

Diamond18 · 10-10-2002, 12:16 PM

I think Frodo saw and understood more of Gollum than Sam did. Frodo saw Gollum's bad side, but he had pity because he himself was developing that bad side due to the Ring. He also understood more than Sam how much they needed Gollum's guidance.

This isn't to say I think that Sam didn't understand Gollum at all. He just didn't have the pity for or connection with Gollum that Frodo did.

Sapphire_Flame · 10-10-2002, 06:17 PM

I think that the hobbits are intuitive, but in a very basic way. Like what Evenstar1 said, about how little kids seem to pick on emotions easily. The hobbits' characters are all very innocent, giving them a very child-like personality overall; I think that's really what Tolkien was going for to establish to core of the story: the main characters, and thus the ones that most influence the various outcomes of the War, seeming the most innocent and unknowing about the peril they are facing, but still they have that intuitiveness that helps them face that peril. As in regard to elfing's question, I think that Sam might have picked up Gollum's real intentions a bit better than Frodo, but only because Frodo was under the enormous strain of bearing the Ring. If Frodo hadn't had the Ring to deal with he might have realized Gollum's plan sooner. Plus, he was desperate to find a way into Mordor; as far as he knew, Gollum was the only person who knew another way in, he didn't have any choice but to trust him. So even if Frodo didn't trust Gollum, he had to follow him if he would have any chance to get rid of the Ring. Lesser of two evils situation, I guess.

merlilot · 10-10-2002, 06:28 PM

Sorry about this comment, but don't you hate it when you feel ignored?

Diamond18 · 10-10-2002, 08:28 PM

I really hate that. Why do you feel ignored? You know if you go making argumentative and inflammatory remarks that's a good way to get noticed. It's also a good way to get Mister Underhill to slam the topic closed in your face.

Or are you talking about hobbits? Oh, well then, carry on.

10-08-2002, 02:59 PM	#1
Keeper of Dol Guldur Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: 315, CNY Boys and girls. Posts: 405	The strange intuitiveness of Hobbits I don't post often about Hobbits (I haven't posted often in nearly four months, thank god for you people), but I couldn't help after reading LOTR for the fourteenth time that hobbits are unusually good at knowing peoples moods. Pippin can almost see the tension between Gandalf and Denethor (which may or may not have been obvious), Merry knew before Theoden that Eowyn (bold as she was) had been crying over Aragorn's fate in the Paths of the Dead. And let's not even begin about Frodo or Sam, both of whom are so intuitive they trusted Faramir from the beginning (nearly). Anyone else notice this? __________________ "I come from yonder...Have you seen Baggins? Baggins has left, he is coming. He is not far away. I wish to find him. If he passes will you tell me? I will come back with gold." - Khamul the Easterling

10-08-2002, 03:04 PM	#2
Mattius Soul of Fire Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of Steel Posts: 666	Well, Tolkien did base them losely on British people. __________________ A problem shared is a problem halved, so is your problem really yours or just half of someone else's?

10-08-2002, 05:00 PM	#3
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	Tolkien was telling his story through the eyes of hobbits, so if there was anything he wanted us to know about the other characters, without them just saying it out loud, it was natural for him to have the hobbits intuitive about it. I think most main characters in novels will strike people as quite intuitive. They are, after all, the eyes, ears and mouth of the author. __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

10-08-2002, 06:34 PM	#4
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	I don't think that they were really that intuitive, not any more then any of us anyway. I suspect that the Denethor-Gandalf thing was pretty obvious as was Eowyns crying. The hobbits were pretty desparate by the time they met Faramir. I'm sure that you can think of a few people who you just sort of know that you can trust, Faramir is one of those people. __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

10-08-2002, 07:23 PM	#5
Daisy Sandybanks Wight Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: California Posts: 101	This is just my opinion, obviously, but I tend to think that Hobbits were intuitive because they were so intune with nature. Their whole lives revoled around nature, they lived in the ground, got their food from the earth itself, named their children after native plants/flowers, and even wore colors to match their surroundings. Think of them a little hippies, being one with nature thus inhancing their instinctiveness towards others emotions or feelings. But there are the Elves as well, who, just as the Hobbits, live their lives around natures creations. Are Elves just as intuitive as Hobbits? __________________ Knowlege is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.

10-08-2002, 07:41 PM	#6
merlilot Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Brandy Hall, Buckland, the Eastmarch of the Shire Posts: 204	I think that since they really didn't spend whole lot of time doing book learning, but rather spent most of their lives talking to and otherwise spending time with other people that they developed a talent for seeing how a person felt. I mean, that determines how you pose questions, what you say and in what manner you say it, so if they wanted to be socially successful, it was imperative that they could tell this kind of thing. Not to mention that the Denethor/Gandalf thing was obvious, Éowyn's distress was rather obvious, and Sam and Frodo were bound to be at least cautiously trusting of anyone they met. And Faramir IS the kind of guy you just know that you can trust right away. __________________ <--- and Billy Boyd. Thanks for the pic Alatariel (hope I spelled it right) even if i took it without permission

10-08-2002, 08:48 PM	#7
Evenstar1 Wight Join Date: May 2002 Location: Colorado (just east of the Misty Mts.) Posts: 111	Hmmm. I always thought of hobbits as very child-like. And children pick up on everything! They are always very aware of the emotions around them and they have good instincts for trusting people. (This would explain Frodo & Sam's trust of Faramir, Merry picking up on Eowyn's feelings before Theoden, etc.) But I do also like Diamond18's point about the main character/author perspective. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ - Eve

10-09-2002, 09:46 PM	#8
elfling Haunting Spirit Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: asheville,nc Posts: 86	I think most of the characters seem pretty intuitive, that whole "through the eyes of the author" thing, but what about Sam and Frodo and Gollum. Who was more intuitive Sam or Frodo or did they both just see different sides of the same coin( the good and bad of Golllum)? __________________ And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the morning and the night...All shall love me and despair!

10-10-2002, 12:16 PM	#9
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	I think Frodo saw and understood more of Gollum than Sam did. Frodo saw Gollum's bad side, but he had pity because he himself was developing that bad side due to the Ring. He also understood more than Sam how much they needed Gollum's guidance. This isn't to say I think that Sam didn't understand Gollum at all. He just didn't have the pity for or connection with Gollum that Frodo did. __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

10-10-2002, 06:17 PM	#10
Sapphire_Flame Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The World That Never Was Posts: 1,232	I think that the hobbits are intuitive, but in a very basic way. Like what Evenstar1 said, about how little kids seem to pick on emotions easily. The hobbits' characters are all very innocent, giving them a very child-like personality overall; I think that's really what Tolkien was going for to establish to core of the story: the main characters, and thus the ones that most influence the various outcomes of the War, seeming the most innocent and unknowing about the peril they are facing, but still they have that intuitiveness that helps them face that peril. As in regard to elfing's question, I think that Sam might have picked up Gollum's real intentions a bit better than Frodo, but only because Frodo was under the enormous strain of bearing the Ring. If Frodo hadn't had the Ring to deal with he might have realized Gollum's plan sooner. Plus, he was desperate to find a way into Mordor; as far as he knew, Gollum was the only person who knew another way in, he didn't have any choice but to trust him. So even if Frodo didn't trust Gollum, he had to follow him if he would have any chance to get rid of the Ring. Lesser of two evils situation, I guess. __________________ The Hitchhiking Ghost

10-10-2002, 06:28 PM	#11
merlilot Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Brandy Hall, Buckland, the Eastmarch of the Shire Posts: 204	Sorry about this comment, but don't you hate it when you feel ignored? __________________ <--- and Billy Boyd. Thanks for the pic Alatariel (hope I spelled it right) even if i took it without permission

10-10-2002, 08:28 PM	#12
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	I really hate that. Why do you feel ignored? You know if you go making argumentative and inflammatory remarks that's a good way to get noticed. It's also a good way to get Mister Underhill to slam the topic closed in your face. Or are you talking about hobbits? Oh, well then, carry on. __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.