The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > Novices and Newcomers
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-18-2002, 10:06 AM   #1
Mornie Alantie
Wight
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Somewhere above earth cause people say i should come down to it
Posts: 226
Mornie Alantie has just left Hobbiton.
Tolkien Who Was your favorite character in the Silmarilion?

I have a few, Turgon was cool cause he built Gondolin which is one of my favorites in the Sil. But I think Finrod was cool cause he... was... Cool. So Finrod is Probably close to the top
__________________
Instead of pepper spray, you pack a glass bottle and scream "Aiya Earendil Elenion Ancalima!!!" at muggers.
Mornie Alantie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2002, 12:15 PM   #2
Eärendil
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Valinor (RtL: 1220 miles)
Posts: 562
Eärendil has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

I think who is my fave is quite obvious...Eärendil. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I just love water, the sea, and to sail (thougn I am hardly able to.) And he was just cool, and I like the fact that he came to Valinor. And that he and Vingilot sails in the sky, guarding Morgoth (still I guess?), and that he chosed to stay in Valinor for the love for Idril (his wife). I have more reasons, but I can´t explain (my English´s too poor [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] ).

[ June 18, 2002: Message edited by: Eärendil ]
__________________
Jag ska aldrig göra dig illa. Inte igen. Åtminstone inte mycket, åtminstone inte hårt. Kommer du ihåg? Då vi fortfarande kunde skratta, le på ett äkta vis. Jag tänker på det ibland. Det smärtar. För aldrig har du väl varit. Längre bort. Från mig.
Eärendil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2002, 12:21 PM   #3
Lothiriel Silmarien
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 829
Lothiriel Silmarien has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

Mornie, I'm always afraid of these topics! I mostly don't come into them because it is SOOOOO hard to pick!! But I love Finrod too! Here are a list of some of my favrorites. Most likely I'll forget and leave some out and then post later saying oh yeah I forgot!:

Finrod (he's just so cool, and needs no explination for it!)

Luthien
Beren
Turin! (I like Turin too, he's just cool too. But the sister thing, well ok he didn't know!! That's still...eh. Very tragic story, poor guy [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] )

Feanor
Beleg
Earendil

Well, that's all for now. I most likely left someone out!! Actually, they're all cool! Not just the ones I picked (and I mean everyone from my list, even if I didn't say they were cool)
__________________
Si vanwa na Romello vanwa Valimar!~*~
~*~Now lost, lost to those from the East is Valimar!
My LotR page
Lothiriel Silmarien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2002, 12:26 PM   #4
Anarya SilverBranch
Wight
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: In maiden meditation, fancy free.
Posts: 245
Anarya SilverBranch has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Beleg and Morwen

Definently [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
__________________
Snow white! Snow White! O' Lady Clear! O' Queen Beyond the Western Seas!
O' light to us that wander here amid the world of woven trees!
Anarya SilverBranch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2002, 01:25 PM   #5
Tigerlily Gamgee
Hostess of Spirits
 
Tigerlily Gamgee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Meduseld
Posts: 1,055
Tigerlily Gamgee has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Tigerlily Gamgee
Silmaril

Luthien wins my vote!!!!!!!
Tigerlily Gamgee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2002, 01:45 PM   #6
Ungoliant
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Silmaril

My favorite was Feanor, I'm not exactly sure why, but I liked him even if he wasn't all good.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2002, 02:35 PM   #7
Maédhros
The Kinslayer
 
Maédhros's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Formenos
Posts: 658
Maédhros has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via MSN to Maédhros
Sting

Of course my favorite character is Maedhros. Althought he took the oath, he tried to beat Melkor and wasn't driven to evil as were his brothers Celegorn and Curufin.
He devised a plan to put himself near Morgoth to assault him in ME, and he gave the title of High King to Fingolfin.
__________________
"Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy."
Maédhros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2002, 02:44 PM   #8
Legolas
A Northern Soul
 
Legolas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Valinor
Posts: 1,847
Legolas has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Fingolfin, and second goes to Glorfindel. I also found the personalities of Thingol and Fëanor interesting.
__________________
...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.
Legolas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2002, 05:43 PM   #9
Imperica
Animated Skeleton
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 35
Imperica has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via ICQ to Imperica Send a message via AIM to Imperica
Sting

So hard to choose because there are so many great characters. But in the end it comes down to two.

Fingolfin - He was so loyal to Feanor. Even when Feanor threatened him he still had love for his brother. Plus he is valiant and brave, rode to the gates of Angband and challenged the Dark Lord Morgoth, once the most powerful being and arguably the root of all evil. Morgoth feared him, and rightfully so because of the wounds Fingolfin inflicted upon him. I bet afterwards all the Orcs talked behind Morgoth's back calling him a gimp.

Beren - Overcoming impossible odds for love. It's so admirable the things he did. Going to the Wizard's Isle dressed as Orcs, then to the depths of Angband to pry a Silmaril out of the iron-crown of Morgoth. For the most beautiful woman of all [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
Imperica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2002, 07:10 PM   #10
Mornie Alantie
Wight
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Somewhere above earth cause people say i should come down to it
Posts: 226
Mornie Alantie has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

I think these topics are super hard. I guess I just like most of the characters Tolkien created, expecially elves.........And Pukel-men

But Elves are the all time high. Thats why I love reading the Silmarilion which others think is hard, but I enjoyed it to much to think so. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
__________________
Instead of pepper spray, you pack a glass bottle and scream "Aiya Earendil Elenion Ancalima!!!" at muggers.
Mornie Alantie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2002, 07:37 PM   #11
TarElendil
Wight
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Armenelos
Posts: 136
TarElendil has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Probably : Isildur,Elendil,Sauron,Morgoth,Hurin,Huor,
Turin,Tuor,Earendil or Fingolfin. I cant decide [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
TarElendil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2002, 12:02 AM   #12
The Silver-shod Muse
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX
Posts: 388
The Silver-shod Muse has just left Hobbiton.
Pipe

Although Feanor was foolish and depraved, he was a pretty neat character, and he really brought home the effects of Morgoth's "black touch" on the mind. Feanor seems almost (super)human. I'll have to cast my vote to him.
__________________
"'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis
The Silver-shod Muse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2002, 04:21 AM   #13
Eowyn of Ithilien
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 277
Eowyn of Ithilien has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

my favourite character's probably Finrod Felagund for his bravery and nobility...but my favourite tale is that of Beren and Luthien
__________________
But of bliss and glad life there is little to be said, before it ends; as works fair and wonderful, while still they endure for eyes to see, are their own record, and only when they are in peril or broken for ever do they pass into song.
Eowyn of Ithilien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2002, 07:18 AM   #14
Melephelwen
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: the Middle of Nowhere
Posts: 291
Melephelwen has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

Idril Celebrindal.

I also like Lúthien and Beren, and almost everyone else, but those three are my favorite favorites. Don't make me explain, because I can't. There's just something special about them. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
__________________
We're all following a strange melody
We're all summoned by a tune
We're following the piper
And we dance beneath the moon
Melephelwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2002, 08:04 AM   #15
The-Elf-Herself
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mithlond
Posts: 74
The-Elf-Herself has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Ooooooh toughie. Probably a tie between Gil-galad and Earendil.
__________________
Go here http://www.geocities.com/sunlit_rain/home_page for songs translated into elvish.~Eruantale Aranìs Oronlamba~
The-Elf-Herself is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2002, 08:12 AM   #16
Calencoire
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Rivendell
Posts: 89
Calencoire has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Calencoire
Silmaril

It is really hard to pick. There are sooo many good things that they all did. But maybe my favorite couple is Beren and Luthien. They went through so much to be together and Luthien is one of the few pivitol female characters. They are a classic love story, [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] but I really love them.
__________________
*Where there is life, there is hope*
Calencoire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2002, 12:39 PM   #17
shadow_knight
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Sting

Turambar is my favorite
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2002, 02:54 PM   #18
Lothiriel Silmarien
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 829
Lothiriel Silmarien has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

Hey Shadow Knight, welcome to the Downs!!! Hope you post often, see you around!!!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
__________________
Si vanwa na Romello vanwa Valimar!~*~
~*~Now lost, lost to those from the East is Valimar!
My LotR page
Lothiriel Silmarien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2002, 09:50 PM   #19
Losthuniel
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The Helcaraxë- aka Canada
Posts: 261
Losthuniel has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Mae govannen, Shadow_knight. being dead is fun!
hmm, tough (btw, i just finished the Sil today! happy!)
Beren and Luthien: they sacrificed so much for each other, and were so lving towards each other that the Valar let them return to earth.
Earendil: so cool. he had to be pretty special to get past all the barricades to Valinor. and he pleaded with the Valar for help.
__________________
~* Losthuniel
"Lord, what fools these mortals be!" Puck, Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream
Abhorsen's House -- Lirael/Sabriel fanboard
Losthuniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2002, 10:37 PM   #20
Thinhyandoiel
Wight
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 187
Thinhyandoiel has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Thinhyandoiel
Eye

Luthien was a fave, but not THE FAVE. I had two ultimate faves. Finrod Felagund and Turgon. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
__________________
In gwidh ristennen, i fae narchannen
I lach Anor ed ardhon gwannen
Caled veleg, ethuiannen
Thinhyandoiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2002, 10:24 AM   #21
*Varda*
Maiden of Tears
 
*Varda*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Valinor.
Posts: 571
*Varda* has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via MSN to *Varda*
Sting

From the few bits of the Sil. that i've read so far, it has to be Beren and Luthien. it was just the most lovely story and also Luthien is one of the few important female characters.
__________________
'It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: someone has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them' ~Frodo
"Life is hard. After all, it kills you." - Katharine Hepburn
*Varda* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2002, 05:36 PM   #22
Remmirath
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Eldalonde on fair Westernesse
Posts: 12
Remmirath has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Remmirath
Tolkien

Aww. I love Elwing and Earendil, I always look up at the stars and think of Earendil as the evening (or was it morning?) star. It just seemed the ultimed Faerie story.
__________________
"From this point on, she whispered to him earlier, we will either find or lose our souls." The English Patient

"But you ARE a person, and I can't say I'm fond of that" -Nny

"Over the Moutains of the Moon, down the valley of the Shadow, Ride, boldly ride, the shade replied-if you seek for Eldorado!"-Edgar Allen Poe
I am dearprudence64 on AOL. IM me.
Remmirath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2002, 05:47 PM   #23
Losthuniel
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The Helcaraxë- aka Canada
Posts: 261
Losthuniel has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

i think its the same star
__________________
~* Losthuniel
"Lord, what fools these mortals be!" Puck, Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream
Abhorsen's House -- Lirael/Sabriel fanboard
Losthuniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2002, 02:17 PM   #24
maleliel
Animated Skeleton
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 38
maleliel has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

I'd probably have to say Luthien was my fave cos she was so beautiful and she sacrificed her immortal life for Beren. I also liked Turin cos you can't help but feel sorry for the poor guy! I love all the characters though, except maybe a few of the evil ones (like Glaurung!) [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
__________________
"Even the smallest person can change the course of the future"
maleliel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2002, 11:28 AM   #25
merlilot
Wight
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Brandy Hall, Buckland, the Eastmarch of the Shire
Posts: 204
merlilot has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

Hi, everybody!

OK, my favourite from the Sil? Well that leaves out all the hobbits. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] So, OK, here we go...

Finrod Felagund
Fingolfin
Túrin Turambar
Nienor Níniel
Fëanor
Maedros
Gil-Galad
Eärendil
Manwë and the rest of the Ainur - they are so cool
The baby Elves, like at Lake Cuiviénen - how cute
__________________
<--- and Billy Boyd. Thanks for the pic Alatariel (hope I spelled it right) even if i took it without permission
merlilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2002, 08:56 PM   #26
Melian
Animated Skeleton
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 27
Melian has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Turin and Ulmo are my favourites. I wonder why no one else mentioned Ulmo...
__________________
"Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens."
Melian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2002, 09:17 PM   #27
Necromancer
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Sting

Hi everyone this is my first post [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Anyways I'd have to say Fingolfin is my favorite character. Just think about it he challenged Morgoth the most feared and powerful being on earth to a fight! Wow this guy has guts, Thats why he's my fav. He also was pretty cool about the whole being left to die by Feanor.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2002, 07:16 AM   #28
Melephelwen
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: the Middle of Nowhere
Posts: 291
Melephelwen has just left Hobbiton.
Thumbs up

Hi James!!! Welcome to the Barrow-Downs! I hope you'll have fun, and don't think we're crazy!! (Just obsessed [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ) I'm sure you wont regret being around!!
Btw, I forgot to mention Gil-galad as one of my favourites [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] He's the greatest male elf!! [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
__________________
We're all following a strange melody
We're all summoned by a tune
We're following the piper
And we dance beneath the moon
Melephelwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2002, 09:25 AM   #29
Nufaciel
Wight
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 133
Nufaciel has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

My fave has always been Feanor...not sure why, still haven't figured it out.
__________________
Member of Pervy Elf Fanciers Anonymous...I need professional help.
Nufaciel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2002, 03:41 PM   #30
Diabolik
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Shield

Ecthelion and Glorfindel are my favorites since they both died killing Balrogs in the Fall of Gondolin. Also, Glorfindel is interesting since he came back to Middle-Earth from Mandos and was in helped Frodo.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2002, 03:12 PM   #31
Ruthwen
Animated Skeleton
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: England
Posts: 40
Ruthwen has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

My favourite is definitely Elwing. I was flicking through the index and I thought her name was brilliant. Then I found out what happened to her, with the turning into a bird and carrying the Silmaril and so on... Besides, she gets to marry Earendil, lucky person that she is.
__________________
"Her name was Nenlauriel, but they called her Rûthwen, because her anger seemed ever constant and ever flowing from her grey eyes."
Ruthwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2002, 03:35 PM   #32
Naaramare
Wight
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Fort St John
Posts: 196
Naaramare has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Naaramare
Tolkien

Beren. Because he mouthed off one of the most powerful elven lords on Middle Earth, and then called him cheap while he was at it.
__________________
"I once spent two weeks in a tree trying to talk to a bird."
--Puck, Brother Mine

si man i yulma nin equantuva? [my blog]
Naaramare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2002, 03:40 PM   #33
Daniel Telcontar
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 713
Daniel Telcontar has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

If Gil-Galad counts, he is definetly one of mine. And Glorfindel, who dies in the most valiant way, and then comes back to ME and does all sorts of cool stuff.

But number one would have to be Fingolfin, who is very patient and loving towards hiw brother. And even though he is greatly betrayed by Feanor, he forgets his grudge against Feanor's sons because of the common foe. And when all seems lost, he does what few would dare; He rides to the gates of Angband an duels Morgoth. Although he loses he puts up a pretty good fight, and I doubt few would have the courage to fight like he does, or even get close Angband. Fingolfin is the bravest of all the old Noldor Kings.
__________________
Two beer or not two beer, that is the question; by Shakesbeer
Daniel Telcontar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2002, 04:20 PM   #34
Lush
Fair and Cold
 
Lush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the big onion
Posts: 1,770
Lush is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Send a message via ICQ to Lush Send a message via AIM to Lush Send a message via Yahoo to Lush
Thumbs up

Lúthien, because she was enchanting, and left a comfortable existence behind for the sake of her love. Beren, because the animals loved him, and because he never settled for second best, but was not cruel or foolish as other ambitions characters in the Sil. Finrod Felagund for his self-sacrifice. Ulmo, for staying so closely involved in the affairs of Elves and Men, though no one asked him to. And Húan, because you can't beat a talking hound of war!
__________________
~The beginning is the word and the end is silence. And in between are all the stories. This is one of mine~
Lush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2002, 04:26 PM   #35
Calencoire
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Rivendell
Posts: 89
Calencoire has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Calencoire
Silmaril

My favorite would probaly be Beren and Luthien, just because their love story was so romantic and they died and came back to life and Luthien gave up her immortality for him... that is something we will never know. I have other faves to, but its been a while since I've read it. Oh yeah, I liked Earendil to.
__________________
*Where there is life, there is hope*
Calencoire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2002, 08:27 PM   #36
Luthien_ Tinuviel
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Luthien_ Tinuviel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: A very lovely tree-hut in the Chunnel.
Posts: 804
Luthien_ Tinuviel has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Luthien_ Tinuviel Send a message via MSN to Luthien_ Tinuviel
Luthien, Beren, Fingolfin, Earendil, Varda, Elendil. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
__________________
I am a nineteen-year-old nomad photographer who owns a lemonade stand.

You know what? I love Mip.
Luthien_ Tinuviel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2002, 01:03 PM   #37
Nice-Smeagol
Animated Skeleton
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Somewhere under the Misty Mountains
Posts: 48
Nice-Smeagol has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

My fave character is Feanor, because although the Valar forbid the elves to attack Melkor he did it anyway. That takes great bravery to the ones who could kill you extremely easily!
__________________
Wicked Masster Cheatss Us!Cheatss Smeagol, gollum. He mussn't go that way, mussn't hurt Preciouss.
Give it to Smeagol, yess, give it to uss. GIVE IT TO USSSSS....

I'm evil I know, but hey, who's gonna stop me! Bwahahahahahahaha!
Nice-Smeagol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2002, 01:32 PM   #38
dragongirlG
Wight
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Stock, the Shire
Posts: 151
dragongirlG has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Beren and Luthien were very cool. I also like the Valar, specifically Ulmo. Oh, and the Elves. Fingolfin! I loved him. Also liked Elendil and Earendil.
dragongirlG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2003, 09:27 AM   #39
al'Thingolfin
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Norway
Posts: 13
al'Thingolfin has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

A draw between Finrod and Fingolfin.

There are many characters I would like to know more about: Melian, Olwe, and Ingwe, for example.
__________________
-Thingolfin
al'Thingolfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2003, 02:14 PM   #40
tinewelt
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: the Seventh Gate of Gondolin
Posts: 76
tinewelt has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

My favorite male would have to be Turgon, mainly because he was responsible for the city of Gondolin, which is my favorite of the Sil. My favorite female though, would have to be Varda. O Elebereth! Elbereth Githoniel!
tinewelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:25 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.