Legendarium/David Day books - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

piosenniel · 07-02-2002, 01:00 PM

Having recently found a few gift certificates to a major bookstore that I had rat-holed away for purchasing summer reading, I was wondering if someone could give me a brief review or recommendation on several books I've had my eye on.

The first is: Tolkien's Legendariumedited by Flieger and Hostetter.

The rest are various books by David Day - who seems to have put out a number of catalog type books with some lovely drawings in them. Are they fairly accurate in their definitions?

I was also looking at one of his (Day's) which traces the history of the various 'Ring' stories. Once again the illustrations are wonderful, but is his information correct?

I am sure about one of the books I ordered, since I've seen many of the discussions quote from it: The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien. Am looking forward to reading it.

Child of the 7th Age · 07-02-2002, 03:15 PM

Pio -- I have Tolkien's Legendarium and also several of Day's books (you know me!)--his illustrated encyclopedia and his Guide and his Bestiary, plus his book on Rings in mythology. My daughter is also getting The Hobbit Companion for her birthday.

OK, so I like books. If you think this is bad, you should see my collection of medieval history or baseball! And remember I've been collecting this darn stuff since the late sixties.

These are really different books that you mention. The Legendarium is a series of essays on the History of Middle-earth. I love it, but a word of warning. It is "academic," pretty serious - no pictures or fun stuff, but a lot of interesting ideas you have to dig out. It is "original research." I bought a copy on the Walmart site for $40 which was $20 less than elsewhere.

Verlyn Flieger has an essay here on The Footsteps of Aelfwine, invesigating the concept of the Elf-friend. Also, there is an article on how Tolkien uses narrators--shows how there were subtle changes made in Hobbit which led into LotR. Another article compares Gandalf and Odin. There are several contiributions by linguists which I barely understood! Plus essays on how Tolkien wrote, showing that his later ideas changed. It's fascinating stuff, but it ain't easy reading. (Kind of like reading Child on one of her bad days when she's feeling partcularly verbose!)

David Day? I know some people feel he is not as accurate as he should be --Michael Martinez says that. I'm not enough of an expert to say yes or no. What I love about his books are the illustrations --done by other artists, not him. I wouldn't buy one of his guides which didn't have color illustrations. (Well, I did buy the Guide off the remainder table, but that was just $2.) Except for the pitures, I actually like my guides by Foster and Tyler better than the one by Day. They seem to have more entries.

There's one other problem with Day that I've found. His Hobbit Companion and Tolkien's Ring are clearly distinct from everything else, but many of his other guides, encyclopedias, etc. tend to overlap. In fact many of the entries are identical. So, if you're going to buy one of his general guides or encyclopedia, don't go and buy another. It's not worth it.

I like the Hobbit Companion, but then I'm distinctly partial to hobbits. A lot of the stuff is just made up out of Day's head, and you can't always tell what is Tolkien and what is Day. I don't take it for serious information, but for fun. My ten-year old liked the pictures so much that I got it for her birthday.

The things in the Ring book are mostly general mythology--comparing how the Ring is treated in different traditions. Again, Day says some things that you really don't know if they are true or not, e.g. He says the ending where Frodo is taken away to the land of mortals and healed is consciously based on the ending of the Arthurian legend.

Well, first of all we don't know if Frodo was healed, and secondly, I'm not sure Tolkien consciously based it on the image of Arthur. I think it also had a great deal to do with the Elves and their departure West which is a theme in many other ancient myths.

One more thing -- do you have the history Middle-earth and Unfinished Tales? I would buy those before gettng the other titles we discussed.

I have a feeling I've confused rather than helped. Let me know what you get.

sharon

[ July 02, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

Elrian · 07-03-2002, 03:56 AM

I have his Illustrated Encyclopedia, the artwork is nice, but I didn't find his descriptions too good. Robert Fosters Complete Guide to Middle Earth seems to be more accurate.

Aiwendil · 07-03-2002, 09:58 AM

Tolkien's Legendarium is an excellent book - if you've read HoMe. If you haven't, you'll probably still find it interesting, but you won't be able to fully appreciate it. As Child of the 7th Age points out, it is something of a scholarly tome.

My advice is to stay away from David Day. I have his Illustrated Encyclopedia and, though some of the artwork is nice, the actual entries ranges from slightly misleading to blatantly inaccurate.

Letters is a good choice. You'll definitely enjoy that.

07-02-2002, 01:00 PM	#1
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	Legendarium/David Day books Having recently found a few gift certificates to a major bookstore that I had rat-holed away for purchasing summer reading, I was wondering if someone could give me a brief review or recommendation on several books I've had my eye on. The first is: Tolkien's Legendariumedited by Flieger and Hostetter. The rest are various books by David Day - who seems to have put out a number of catalog type books with some lovely drawings in them. Are they fairly accurate in their definitions? I was also looking at one of his (Day's) which traces the history of the various 'Ring' stories. Once again the illustrations are wonderful, but is his information correct? I am sure about one of the books I ordered, since I've seen many of the discussions quote from it: The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien. Am looking forward to reading it. __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

07-02-2002, 03:15 PM	#2
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Pio -- I have Tolkien's Legendarium and also several of Day's books (you know me!)--his illustrated encyclopedia and his Guide and his Bestiary, plus his book on Rings in mythology. My daughter is also getting The Hobbit Companion for her birthday. OK, so I like books. If you think this is bad, you should see my collection of medieval history or baseball! And remember I've been collecting this darn stuff since the late sixties. These are really different books that you mention. The Legendarium is a series of essays on the History of Middle-earth. I love it, but a word of warning. It is "academic," pretty serious - no pictures or fun stuff, but a lot of interesting ideas you have to dig out. It is "original research." I bought a copy on the Walmart site for $40 which was $20 less than elsewhere. Verlyn Flieger has an essay here on The Footsteps of Aelfwine, invesigating the concept of the Elf-friend. Also, there is an article on how Tolkien uses narrators--shows how there were subtle changes made in Hobbit which led into LotR. Another article compares Gandalf and Odin. There are several contiributions by linguists which I barely understood! Plus essays on how Tolkien wrote, showing that his later ideas changed. It's fascinating stuff, but it ain't easy reading. (Kind of like reading Child on one of her bad days when she's feeling partcularly verbose!) David Day? I know some people feel he is not as accurate as he should be --Michael Martinez says that. I'm not enough of an expert to say yes or no. What I love about his books are the illustrations --done by other artists, not him. I wouldn't buy one of his guides which didn't have color illustrations. (Well, I did buy the Guide off the remainder table, but that was just $2.) Except for the pitures, I actually like my guides by Foster and Tyler better than the one by Day. They seem to have more entries. There's one other problem with Day that I've found. His Hobbit Companion and Tolkien's Ring are clearly distinct from everything else, but many of his other guides, encyclopedias, etc. tend to overlap. In fact many of the entries are identical. So, if you're going to buy one of his general guides or encyclopedia, don't go and buy another. It's not worth it. I like the Hobbit Companion, but then I'm distinctly partial to hobbits. A lot of the stuff is just made up out of Day's head, and you can't always tell what is Tolkien and what is Day. I don't take it for serious information, but for fun. My ten-year old liked the pictures so much that I got it for her birthday. The things in the Ring book are mostly general mythology--comparing how the Ring is treated in different traditions. Again, Day says some things that you really don't know if they are true or not, e.g. He says the ending where Frodo is taken away to the land of mortals and healed is consciously based on the ending of the Arthurian legend. Well, first of all we don't know if Frodo was healed, and secondly, I'm not sure Tolkien consciously based it on the image of Arthur. I think it also had a great deal to do with the Elves and their departure West which is a theme in many other ancient myths. One more thing -- do you have the history Middle-earth and Unfinished Tales? I would buy those before gettng the other titles we discussed. I have a feeling I've confused rather than helped. Let me know what you get. sharon [ July 02, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ] __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

07-03-2002, 03:56 AM	#3
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	I have his Illustrated Encyclopedia, the artwork is nice, but I didn't find his descriptions too good. Robert Fosters Complete Guide to Middle Earth seems to be more accurate. __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

07-03-2002, 09:58 AM	#4
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	Tolkien's Legendarium is an excellent book - if you've read HoMe. If you haven't, you'll probably still find it interesting, but you won't be able to fully appreciate it. As Child of the 7th Age points out, it is something of a scholarly tome. My advice is to stay away from David Day. I have his Illustrated Encyclopedia and, though some of the artwork is nice, the actual entries ranges from slightly misleading to blatantly inaccurate. Letters is a good choice. You'll definitely enjoy that.