question on a topic from the book - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

04-07-2003, 01:31 PM

I have a question about the book and I've looked everwhere but have not found what I am looking for. I was wondering why celeborn did not leave middle earth with Galadriel and why did'nt the sons of Elrond leave then when Arwen would have?

04-07-2003, 01:36 PM

Sorry, I am new at this, and just realized I've posted this in the wrong place, again sorry.

Firondoiel · 04-07-2003, 03:35 PM

Welcome to the Barrow Downs Morwen! I hope you enjoy your time here!

I'm not sure about why Celeborn didn't leave but I know that the sons of Elrond chose to be mortal, so they never left.

P.S. I'm sure a moderator will move this topic to The Books for you. Don't feel bad about making a mistake. I'm sure that almost everyone here has made a mistake before. I know I have.

[ April 07, 2003: Message edited by: Firondoiel ]

Voralphion · 04-07-2003, 05:54 PM

Quote:

but I know that the sons of Elrond chose to be mortal

Where does it say that they chose to be mortal. It says they remained with Celeborn in Rivendell for a while but it doesn't mention any thing about their choice.
Celeborn probably remained because he wasn't yet weary of middle earth and wanted to stay a while. After a bit though he became weary and so he sailed west.

04-07-2003, 07:13 PM

Don't feel bad about posting in the wrong place, I'm new too, so who know's how many mistakes I'll make [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] I don't remember anything about Celeborn though, (it's been about 5 years or so since I read LotR) so I can't help you there.

HCIsland · 04-07-2003, 07:48 PM

Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, but I would assume a big part of it is that Celeborn had never lived anywhere else than Middle Earth while Galadriel was part of the rebelion against the Valar and abandoned Valinor. He and Cirdan in Grey Havens have likely been in Middle Earth longer than any other elf, so it makes sense he has a greater connection to it and would be less eager to leave.

And since we are still in the movies forum, I'm going to put in a plug for the Silmarilion for those that haven't read it and want to learn more about all this.

H.C.

04-07-2003, 10:41 PM

I agree, EVERYONE should read the Silmarillion. It's one of my favorite books period, and is full of interesting information.

Meela · 04-08-2003, 05:58 AM

Unfinished Tales has an entire chapter on Galadriel and Celeborn. Check that out for info. Plus, its an altogether better book than The Silmarillion, in my opinion.

04-08-2003, 06:13 AM

Hey Wowbagger, there's a guy with a name kind of like yours that plays Wheel of Time, he's had a few good signatures in his time, maybe you could steal one of his :}

Kalief made me buy Silmarillion when FotR came out, and I'm still only part way through. Not that it's not fascinating. Problem is, I have to keep starting from the beginning again because there's that many names to keep straight in my head!

Estelyn Telcontar · 04-08-2003, 06:32 AM

This question has already come up on the Books forum, so I'm moving the thread to Novices and Newcomers for all who are interested in continuing the discussion there.

04-08-2003, 06:57 AM

thanks every one!1 I've read the chapter from the unfinished tales on Celeborn and Galadriel over and over, and it does not say any thing about his ever leaving middle earth yet we know he did because in the tale of Aragorn and Arwen if states clearly that he did leave. Also about the sons of Elrond if they chose to mortal why did'nt Elrond make such a big deal about like he did with Arwen?

Lalaith · 04-08-2003, 07:13 AM

Morwen, I don't think we know that the sons of Elrond chose to be mortal. Some Tolkien scholars guess they *might* have done, as they seemed to like hanging out with men - namely Aragorn and the Dunedain. But, on the other hand, they seemed pretty fond of their mother (Celebrian) and my personal guess is that they might have gone West eventually to see her again.

Eruanna · 04-08-2003, 08:15 AM

I agree that Elladan and Elrohir seem to have had an affinity with Aragorn and the Dúnadain. However, I think that this is because these are not *ordinary* men. They are the last remnants of the Númenoreans, there is a shared history; especially with Aragorn who is, after all descended from their father's brother.
We are not told anything of the fate of the brothers or Celeborn, except that Celeborn grew weary of his realm and went to stay in Rivendell with them. I think that Elrohir and Elladan probably sailed West when Arwen died (after staying in M.E to look out for her) and that Celeborn went too.
When Aragorn told Arwen of his decision to die and that she should sail West, she told him that there were no ships left to take her. However, it is clearly stated in the appendices that Legolas built his own ship, perhaps Elrond's sons did the same.

PS. Welcome to the Downs Morwen
[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ April 08, 2003: Message edited by: Eruanna ]

Firondoiel · 04-21-2003, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Where does it say that they chose to be mortal. It says they remained with Celeborn in Rivendell for a while but it doesn't mention any thing about their choice.

One of my friends has read the Tolkien Companion and she told me that it said so.

Legolas · 04-21-2003, 07:37 PM

Your friend (and the Tolkien Companion, if it says so) is wrong.

The fates of Celeborn, Elladan, and Elrohir are not given.

04-07-2003, 01:31 PM	#1
Morwen steelsheen Guest Posts: n/a	question on a topic from the book I have a question about the book and I've looked everwhere but have not found what I am looking for. I was wondering why celeborn did not leave middle earth with Galadriel and why did'nt the sons of Elrond leave then when Arwen would have?

04-07-2003, 03:35 PM	#3
Firondoiel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 571	Welcome to the Barrow Downs Morwen! I hope you enjoy your time here! I'm not sure about why Celeborn didn't leave but I know that the sons of Elrond chose to be mortal, so they never left. P.S. I'm sure a moderator will move this topic to The Books for you. Don't feel bad about making a mistake. I'm sure that almost everyone here has made a mistake before. I know I have. [ April 07, 2003: Message edited by: Firondoiel ] __________________ "Forth, and fear no darkness. Arise. Arise, Riders of Théoden. Spears shall be shaken, shields shall be splintered. A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride! Ride for ruin and the world's ending!"

04-07-2003, 07:48 PM	#6
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, but I would assume a big part of it is that Celeborn had never lived anywhere else than Middle Earth while Galadriel was part of the rebelion against the Valar and abandoned Valinor. He and Cirdan in Grey Havens have likely been in Middle Earth longer than any other elf, so it makes sense he has a greater connection to it and would be less eager to leave. And since we are still in the movies forum, I'm going to put in a plug for the Silmarilion for those that haven't read it and want to learn more about all this. H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

04-08-2003, 05:58 AM	#8
Meela Denethor's True Love Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mirkwood. With Thranduil... swoon Posts: 2,049	Unfinished Tales has an entire chapter on Galadriel and Celeborn. Check that out for info. Plus, its an altogether better book than The Silmarillion, in my opinion. __________________ 'The Hobbit' 1st impressions: 1. Thorin is hot... Oh god, I fancy a dwarf. 2. Thranduil is hotter. 3. Is that... Figwit! 4. Does Elijah Wood never age? 2nd: It's all about Fili & Kili, really. 3rd: BARD! OMG, Bard.

04-08-2003, 06:32 AM	#10
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	This question has already come up on the Books forum, so I'm moving the thread to Novices and Newcomers for all who are interested in continuing the discussion there. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

04-07-2003, 01:36 PM	#2
Morwen steelsheen Guest Posts: n/a	Sorry, I am new at this, and just realized I've posted this in the wrong place, again sorry.

04-07-2003, 07:13 PM	#5
Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged Guest Posts: n/a	Don't feel bad about posting in the wrong place, I'm new too, so who know's how many mistakes I'll make [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] I don't remember anything about Celeborn though, (it's been about 5 years or so since I read LotR) so I can't help you there.

04-07-2003, 10:41 PM	#7
Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged Guest Posts: n/a	I agree, EVERYONE should read the Silmarillion. It's one of my favorite books period, and is full of interesting information.

04-08-2003, 06:13 AM	#9
Sambar Guest Posts: n/a	Hey Wowbagger, there's a guy with a name kind of like yours that plays Wheel of Time, he's had a few good signatures in his time, maybe you could steal one of his :} Kalief made me buy Silmarillion when FotR came out, and I'm still only part way through. Not that it's not fascinating. Problem is, I have to keep starting from the beginning again because there's that many names to keep straight in my head!

04-08-2003, 06:57 AM	#11
Morwen steelsheen Guest Posts: n/a	thanks every one!1 I've read the chapter from the unfinished tales on Celeborn and Galadriel over and over, and it does not say any thing about his ever leaving middle earth yet we know he did because in the tale of Aragorn and Arwen if states clearly that he did leave. Also about the sons of Elrond if they chose to mortal why did'nt Elrond make such a big deal about like he did with Arwen?

04-08-2003, 07:13 AM	#12
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	Morwen, I don't think we know that the sons of Elrond chose to be mortal. Some Tolkien scholars guess they might have done, as they seemed to like hanging out with men - namely Aragorn and the Dunedain. But, on the other hand, they seemed pretty fond of their mother (Celebrian) and my personal guess is that they might have gone West eventually to see her again. __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

04-08-2003, 08:15 AM	#13
Eruanna Memento Mori Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Past The Point Of No Return Posts: 1,117	I agree that Elladan and Elrohir seem to have had an affinity with Aragorn and the Dúnadain. However, I think that this is because these are not ordinary men. They are the last remnants of the Númenoreans, there is a shared history; especially with Aragorn who is, after all descended from their father's brother. We are not told anything of the fate of the brothers or Celeborn, except that Celeborn grew weary of his realm and went to stay in Rivendell with them. I think that Elrohir and Elladan probably sailed West when Arwen died (after staying in M.E to look out for her) and that Celeborn went too. When Aragorn told Arwen of his decision to die and that she should sail West, she told him that there were no ships left to take her. However, it is clearly stated in the appendices that Legolas built his own ship, perhaps Elrond's sons did the same. PS. Welcome to the Downs Morwen [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [ April 08, 2003: Message edited by: Eruanna ] __________________ "Remember, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."

04-21-2003, 07:37 PM	#15
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	Your friend (and the Tolkien Companion, if it says so) is wrong. The fates of Celeborn, Elladan, and Elrohir are not given. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.