Irony. . . or not? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Nevfeniel · 06-26-2002, 09:27 PM

After my mom read LotR, she pointed something out that I hadn't noticed. Isildur takes the ring from Sauron by cutting it off his hand, and Gollum gets the ring by biting it off Frodo's hand. Is it just me, or is that a little ironic?

Gimli Son Of Gloin · 06-26-2002, 09:30 PM

I think it's an ironic coincidence.

Nevfeniel · 06-26-2002, 09:33 PM

I'm also wondering if Tolkien did it on purpose.

obloquy · 06-26-2002, 10:03 PM

I'd say that's probably the only way to get the Ring off of a finger it's comfortable on.

06-26-2002, 10:53 PM

You try taken a ring off some one's finger who's fighting you. unless you are stronger then him or he is wounded cuting it off is the only way.

Morquesse · 06-26-2002, 11:07 PM

Well Nev, how else are you going to get the Ring? I mean, it's on a finger, so natrally you would either cut/rip the hand or the finger off.
~M

The Silver-shod Muse · 06-27-2002, 07:38 AM

And if the ring refuses to come off, you pretty much have to use force.

Calencoire · 06-27-2002, 12:35 PM

Yeah, like the others, its hard to get the ring off since a ring is usually intended to be worn on the finger. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Greycloak · 06-27-2002, 05:00 PM

That's not the only way to get the ring off a finger. Anotaher option was tried in both cases and failed both times- that being to just flat-out kill the ringbearer and remove the ring from his dead hand.

It was more than irony. It was by design.

Nevfeniel · 06-27-2002, 05:39 PM

Thank you, Greycloak! Actually, my mom came up with the idea, and when I told her everyone else's reaction, she replied, "I don't care, I still think it's symbolic." Hm.

Rimbaud · 07-17-2002, 02:52 PM

Coincidental. Intriguing. Perhaps even thought-provoking. Not ironic. A sadly misused word and concept.

Oblo has it, IMO, the Ring will stay on the finger if it so desires, so a rudimentary amputation seems the only answer.

Belin · 07-17-2002, 03:42 PM

Symbolic, however, is an interesting suggestion. It does seem that the Ring becomes integrated into its bearer to some extent, and the separation of bearer from Ring seems to injure them, as is often dicussed in threads about Frodo. Does this injury consist of taking a part of them away? Is the loss of a finger or hand a physical manifestation of that? Is this what you're getting at?

--Belin Ibaimendi, waiting for someone to mention Beren. Or Gollum.

[ July 17, 2002: Message edited by: Belin ]

Caradhras · 07-17-2002, 03:45 PM

Hey ~
I think that Tolkein might have done it on purpose but of course we will never know [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] Okay, well g2r. Laters~!

06-26-2002, 09:27 PM	#1
Nevfeniel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mithlond Posts: 783	Irony. . . or not? After my mom read LotR, she pointed something out that I hadn't noticed. Isildur takes the ring from Sauron by cutting it off his hand, and Gollum gets the ring by biting it off Frodo's hand. Is it just me, or is that a little ironic? __________________ Consider the purr a variety of audible tranquilizer. [. . .] For a few of us, there is one more purr, a secret purr. When we combine our secret purrs, we produce the Purr of Power. And that is simply the amplified amity we feel as furred and purred beings.

06-26-2002, 09:30 PM	#2
Gimli Son Of Gloin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Halls of Montezuma, and the Shores of Tripoli Posts: 495	I think it's an ironic coincidence. __________________ The Few, the Proud, the Marines.

06-26-2002, 09:33 PM	#3
Nevfeniel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mithlond Posts: 783	I'm also wondering if Tolkien did it on purpose. __________________ Consider the purr a variety of audible tranquilizer. [. . .] For a few of us, there is one more purr, a secret purr. When we combine our secret purrs, we produce the Purr of Power. And that is simply the amplified amity we feel as furred and purred beings.

06-26-2002, 11:07 PM	#6
Morquesse Wight Join Date: May 2002 Location: Past the fields we know.... Posts: 202	Well Nev, how else are you going to get the Ring? I mean, it's on a finger, so natrally you would either cut/rip the hand or the finger off. ~M __________________ I'm not ashamed to let you know I want this light in me to show. I'm not ashamed to speak the name of Jesus Christ.~Newsboys

06-27-2002, 07:38 AM	#7
The Silver-shod Muse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX Posts: 388	And if the ring refuses to come off, you pretty much have to use force. __________________ "'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis

06-26-2002, 10:03 PM	#4
obloquy Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: WA Posts: 941	I'd say that's probably the only way to get the Ring off of a finger it's comfortable on.

06-26-2002, 10:53 PM	#5
shadow_knight Guest Posts: n/a	You try taken a ring off some one's finger who's fighting you. unless you are stronger then him or he is wounded cuting it off is the only way.

06-27-2002, 12:35 PM	#8
Calencoire Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rivendell Posts: 89	Yeah, like the others, its hard to get the ring off since a ring is usually intended to be worn on the finger. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ Where there is life, there is hope

06-27-2002, 05:00 PM	#9
Greycloak Animated Skeleton Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 28	That's not the only way to get the ring off a finger. Anotaher option was tried in both cases and failed both times- that being to just flat-out kill the ringbearer and remove the ring from his dead hand. It was more than irony. It was by design.

06-27-2002, 05:39 PM	#10
Nevfeniel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mithlond Posts: 783	Thank you, Greycloak! Actually, my mom came up with the idea, and when I told her everyone else's reaction, she replied, "I don't care, I still think it's symbolic." Hm. __________________ Consider the purr a variety of audible tranquilizer. [. . .] For a few of us, there is one more purr, a secret purr. When we combine our secret purrs, we produce the Purr of Power. And that is simply the amplified amity we feel as furred and purred beings.

07-17-2002, 02:52 PM	#11
Rimbaud The Perilous Poet Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Heart of the matter Posts: 1,062	Coincidental. Intriguing. Perhaps even thought-provoking. Not ironic. A sadly misused word and concept. Oblo has it, IMO, the Ring will stay on the finger if it so desires, so a rudimentary amputation seems the only answer. __________________ And all the rest is literature

07-17-2002, 03:42 PM	#12
Belin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: all the wide unfriendly pathways of the world Posts: 330	Symbolic, however, is an interesting suggestion. It does seem that the Ring becomes integrated into its bearer to some extent, and the separation of bearer from Ring seems to injure them, as is often dicussed in threads about Frodo. Does this injury consist of taking a part of them away? Is the loss of a finger or hand a physical manifestation of that? Is this what you're getting at? --Belin Ibaimendi, waiting for someone to mention Beren. Or Gollum. [ July 17, 2002: Message edited by: Belin ] __________________ "I hate dignity," cried Scraps, kicking a pebble high in the air and then trying to catch it as it fell. "Half the fools and all the wise folks are dignified, and I'm neither the one nor the other." --L. Frank Baum

07-17-2002, 03:45 PM	#13
Caradhras Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: the moon Posts: 55	Hey ~ I think that Tolkein might have done it on purpose but of course we will never know [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] Okay, well g2r. Laters~! __________________ There is only one true reason for living... ME!!!!!!!!! http://www.uniquehardware.co.uk/serv...tz/grommit.gif http://216.40.201.38/otn/animals/bl_paw.gif