The 2 Great Mythologies of the 20th century

[lindil]

...it amounts to the creation of a whole new mythos, a feat only possible through an intelligence beyond this earth.


-Prof. Denis Saurat to JG Bennett.

the above is a reference to Gurdjieff's All and Everything, but also calls to mind JRRT's legendarium.

Generally as far as I know there has been no serious comparitive or exploratory look at the 2 great literary creations of the 20th century.

Tolkiens 'Legendarium' being composed of canonical and posthumou8s works and All and Everything by GI Gurdjieff.

The 2 works have vastly different aims but remarkable similarities.

*Both center around a trilogy but go much farther ( Gurdjieff's is provactively titled Beelzebub's Tales to his Grandson).

*Both cover vast sweeps of history from the creation forward.

*Both works put a large focus on the higher capabilities of man and immortality.

There are of course radical differences and by and large I side with Tolkien over theological matters than with Gurdjieff, but whereas Tolkien was a master of myth and story, Gurdjieff was a master of psychological understanding. Tolkien was no slouch in this regard,

but Beelzebub's tales muxt be read [or at least the lesser work presenting Gurdjieff's earlier teaching period in pre-revolutionary Russia -
In Search of the Miraculous]

Anyway, I would be interested in hearing anyone who has read both, their thoughts on the 2 great Legendarium's of the 20th Century.

[ August 29, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ]

[Iarwain]

Perhaps surprisingly, I've never heard of Gurdjieff before, and because of that, and the fact that no one else has responded yet, I'd be very interested to find out why you consider his work to be a candidate for the top two.

Meanwhile, after not finding Gurdjieff in the WorldBook encyclopedia, I proceed to Google to find some fan sites... I've been looking at these for the past few minutes, and I've gotten very confused. It seems to me that there is a large following of Gurdjieff's dance/martial arts teachings. He also seems extraordinarily philosophical for an author of modern mythology. Now I'm really in need of an explaination. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Iarwain

[lindil]

Perhaps surprisingly, I've never heard of Gurdjieff before, and because of that, and the fact that no one else has responded yet ...

Not too suprising no. Generally most of his followers do not blow their trumpets too loudly, wishing only for the more astute to hear their melodies.

As for no one responding well, Iarwain, consider yourself rightfully curious, and i hope that the crack in the door will encourage to open it a little further and explore.

Meanwhile, after not finding G...I proceed to Google to find some fan sites... It seems to me that there is a large following of Gurdjieff's dance/martial arts teachings. He also seems extraordinarily philosophical for an author of modern mythology. Now I'm really in need of an explaination.

First off, his Movements as they are generally known, have no martial function that I have ever heard of. They come from various temples and monastaries in Central Asia and the Mid-east, and their function is foremost to get one to experience one's Body, heart and mind as independently function units first, that can then later be used as a beachead if you will to working together but now at a much higher level of not only efficiency, but objectivity.

Gurdjieff, his Ideas and his Mythology.

Well, he is not first and foremost an 'Author of Stories' as was Tolkien. Gurdjieff created or rather transmitted his Mythology purely for the sake of leaving behind what he belived to be a map of 'the terror of the situation'. that is the dire and nearly impossible straits which each human being may awaken to find oneself in.

Tolkien was a Christian Artist who co-created
Middle-Earth and the Undying Lands.

Gurdjieff was a teacher who attempted to show
through his vast work All and Everything [especially the first series] the real situation of mankind, his true history [little of which I have much faith in] and the way out.

You will note that I have noted that I do not subscrive to all of G's Idea's and teachings [all of which he claimed came from obscure but traditional Orthodox Chrristian,Essene, Sufi, Buddhist and most importantly a 'Sarmoung' monastery where much of what is unique to him most likely really does hail from.
So why if I agere so little with his cosmology and Theology do I bother with all of this?

For the simple reason that I know of gerater way to have the cobwebs batted out of one's brain, the hardness of heart melted and the near total lack of 'being in one's body' experienced for what it is. Gurdjieff convincigly will prove to you that you belive that in your everyday life you are 'awake'.. But after reading the account of his teaching in pre-revolutionary Russia in In Search of the Miraculous by PD OUspensky, and transcripts of later lectures and group meetings in Views from the Real World, I have come to believe that if one wants to be a Christian one needs to see with new eye's the plain teaching of the Gospel on our condition of 'sleep'. G. does this like no other - excepting perhaps St. John Climacus, and he is very strong and bitter medicine.

So while I do not subscribe to G's Mythology - it is on a grand scale like Tolkien [again, G. believed he is telling real, but unknown history] and again his psycholgy and 'Work Ideas' are wheat well worth seperating from the chaff.


Iarwain, I hope that elucidates abit, and I look fwd to hearing about any conclusions you might draw from a first hand encounter.

[ September 01, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ]

[Iarwain]

Hm. Well, I suppose I'm at fault for making a presumption about the martial arts teachings. Many of the same phrases are used to describe yoga, karate, etc., so I was looking at a website scanning though purpose statments, and my mind picked up those words and attached them to the idea of physical/spiritual "oneness" that is so popular in some easter philosophies. As for first hand experience, I don't think you can look forward to any comments from me, as I tend to stay away from new age philosophical writings (however harmless they may prove [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] ). I was the person that cut off my engrossment in Frank Herbert's "Dune" books because of the implications of cloning in a novel placed in the same universe as ours (it infringed on certain theological view that I hold, and said something about Herbert's own beliefs).

Iarwain