of dragons and wings - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Tirinor · 12-16-2002, 01:54 PM

I believe that this has been disscussed before, but I didn't find anything when I did a search.

It is clear that Smaug had wings, but I have just read in Of the Fifth Battle, a description of the attack by the father of dragons, Glaurung, and it is unclear if he had wings or not. In fact it sounds more like he didn't have wings.

Is there any definative or implied evidence for if all dragons had wings? And which ones did not have wings and why?

Dark-Caranthir · 12-16-2002, 02:07 PM

The first dragons (of whom Glaurung was the greatest and first) did not have wings, presumably because Morgoth hadn't gotten the hang of making them with wings, or something like that. However by the War of Wrath, the first winged dragons (led by Ancaglon the Black) had appeared. Although they didn't help Morgoth very much. Smaug was one of this breed but he escaped the devestation at the end of the Wor of Wrath, along with some other dragons, Balrogs and orcs.

Galorme · 12-16-2002, 03:06 PM

There were essentially four types of dragens: Cold Drakes, Fire Drakes, Winged Dragons, and Winged Fire Dragons (I am not entirley sure if you get none-firebreathing winged dragons)

Glaurung was the first and he could breath fire. His children (spawn?) varied a lot, some were very traditional looking dragons, and some were much more sluglike (more like Glaurung himself).

Morgoth Bauglir · 12-16-2002, 04:40 PM

thats not true that the winged dragons didnt help him at all.....i remember reading that they were overwhelmed for a sec but then the host of the west continued woopin [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Galorme · 12-16-2002, 04:48 PM

They actually totally held them back, and for quite a while. I assume many elves and men lost their lives on the onslaught. It wasn't until Earendel and the Eagles came that the side was turned.

Lindril Arvilya · 12-16-2002, 08:30 PM

Wait.... if Glaurung was the first, and the rest were his spawn, what did he mate with to produce these? Is there some untold female dragon, or a big crocodile, or Ungoliant, or what? Anyone?

Galorme · 12-17-2002, 09:39 AM

Who knows, who knows. Dragons, or at least Glaurung, may well be asexaul. It is said somewhere "he reproduced, in the strange way dragons do". I am not sure if that was a JRRT quote, or from another book, or maybe even from the Downs. Any idea?

mordor136 · 12-17-2002, 11:37 AM

Hey maybe we all should get together and write a book an ME genetics! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] It dosent give much info as to creation and reproduction of Morgoth's creatures. Maybe that's why they live so long. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

Makar · 03-06-2005, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galorme

There were essentially four types of dragens: Cold Drakes, Fire Drakes, Winged Dragons, and Winged Fire Dragons (I am not entirley sure if you get none-firebreathing winged dragons)

Glaurung was the first and he could breath fire. His children (spawn?) varied a lot, some were very traditional looking dragons, and some were much more sluglike (more like Glaurung himself).

So, were there combos of any of these? Winged cold-drakes? We are told about Scatha, who was a cold-drake, and the dragon who drove the drove Thorin's folk from the Grey Mountains was presumably a cold-drake. I have also heard mentioned somewhere "long wyrms" in a reference to Tolkien. Were there ever any true wyrms, with no legs or wings?

Gurthang · 03-10-2005, 07:32 PM

Here is a thread that you might find interesting.

The Source of Dragons

Personally, I thought that maybe Morgoth twisted some pre-existing creature to form dragons. It would be sort of like the mythical 'twisting of the elves' except to make dragons. That could explain how he was able to better them over time.

12-16-2002, 01:54 PM	#1
Tirinor Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Alabama, U.S.A. Posts: 90	of dragons and wings I believe that this has been disscussed before, but I didn't find anything when I did a search. It is clear that Smaug had wings, but I have just read in Of the Fifth Battle, a description of the attack by the father of dragons, Glaurung, and it is unclear if he had wings or not. In fact it sounds more like he didn't have wings. Is there any definative or implied evidence for if all dragons had wings? And which ones did not have wings and why? __________________ War Eagle.

12-16-2002, 02:07 PM	#2
Dark-Caranthir Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Somewhere beyond the Sea Posts: 52	The first dragons (of whom Glaurung was the greatest and first) did not have wings, presumably because Morgoth hadn't gotten the hang of making them with wings, or something like that. However by the War of Wrath, the first winged dragons (led by Ancaglon the Black) had appeared. Although they didn't help Morgoth very much. Smaug was one of this breed but he escaped the devestation at the end of the Wor of Wrath, along with some other dragons, Balrogs and orcs. __________________ A Elbereth Githoniel silivren penna miriel o menel aglar elenath! Na-chaered palan-diriel o galadhremmin ennorath, Faunilos, le linnathon nef aear, si nef aearon!

12-16-2002, 03:06 PM	#3
Galorme Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: London Posts: 337	There were essentially four types of dragens: Cold Drakes, Fire Drakes, Winged Dragons, and Winged Fire Dragons (I am not entirley sure if you get none-firebreathing winged dragons) Glaurung was the first and he could breath fire. His children (spawn?) varied a lot, some were very traditional looking dragons, and some were much more sluglike (more like Glaurung himself). __________________ Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! The day has come! Behold people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!

12-16-2002, 04:48 PM	#5
Galorme Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: London Posts: 337	They actually totally held them back, and for quite a while. I assume many elves and men lost their lives on the onslaught. It wasn't until Earendel and the Eagles came that the side was turned. __________________ Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! The day has come! Behold people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!

12-16-2002, 08:30 PM	#6
Lindril Arvilya Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In a box at the end of Harrison Ford's street, with a pair of binoculars Posts: 332	Wait.... if Glaurung was the first, and the rest were his spawn, what did he mate with to produce these? Is there some untold female dragon, or a big crocodile, or Ungoliant, or what? Anyone? __________________ Neo, watch out! Trinity's going to steal your pants! Pants thief! Pants thief!

12-16-2002, 04:40 PM	#4
Morgoth Bauglir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 252	thats not true that the winged dragons didnt help him at all.....i remember reading that they were overwhelmed for a sec but then the host of the west continued woopin [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

12-17-2002, 09:39 AM	#7
Galorme Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: London Posts: 337	Who knows, who knows. Dragons, or at least Glaurung, may well be asexaul. It is said somewhere "he reproduced, in the strange way dragons do". I am not sure if that was a JRRT quote, or from another book, or maybe even from the Downs. Any idea? __________________ Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! The day has come! Behold people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!

12-17-2002, 11:37 AM	#8
mordor136 Wight Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: snowboarding with Morgoth in the void Posts: 221	Hey maybe we all should get together and write a book an ME genetics! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] It dosent give much info as to creation and reproduction of Morgoth's creatures. Maybe that's why they live so long. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] __________________ It's not A.D.D I'm just ignoring you. I'm like a super-hero with no powers or motivation

03-10-2005, 07:32 PM	#10
Gurthang Sword of Spirit Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oh, I'm around. Posts: 1,401	Here is a thread that you might find interesting. The Source of Dragons Personally, I thought that maybe Morgoth twisted some pre-existing creature to form dragons. It would be sort of like the mythical 'twisting of the elves' except to make dragons. That could explain how he was able to better them over time. __________________ I'm on a Mission from God.