A Question about Merry - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Beatrice · 04-07-2002, 12:58 PM

Okay, I know that Merry gets married to Estella Bolger, but when? In the appendices, it doesn't say when they're married, only that they are. I looked in the chronology thingy, and it never mentioned the marriage of Merry and Estella Bolger. I think they might've married before he went on the quest.

Fingo · 04-07-2002, 01:19 PM

Possibly, but I don't think so. I think Merry would have mentioned him missing Estella or being married or something. I don't recall that he ever does. Plus, I don't think he was quite at the marrying age when he joined the Company.

Beatrice · 04-07-2002, 01:25 PM

Actually he was. He was 36, if I calculated corectly- okay, he was born in 1382 and went on the quest in 1418, which makes him 36! And coming of age for hobbits is 33, so therefore it's possible that he was married. But you've got a good point- he would've mentioned missing her. But then again, Pippin was 28 and still, probably, living with his parents. Wouldn't he have mentioned missing them? But he didn't- so Merry didn't HAVE to mention missing Estella. But that's still a good point... but very confusing...

Orodhromeus · 04-09-2002, 08:00 AM

Back from their journey, Pippin & Merry stay together for a while at Crickhollow. Considering that none other was mentioned living in Crickhollow apart from Fredegar Bolger, I think Merry was married after the return (and after Frodo's departure).

ElanorGamgee · 04-09-2002, 08:14 AM

I don't think Merry was married before the journey. He never mentions Estella, yet Sam mentions Rose twice, and they're not even married at the time. Plus, if he was married, I can't really see him running off unexpectedly for months with no explanation! And Merry and Pippin probably wouldn't live together for a while if Merry already had a wife and, presumably, a home.

Kalimac · 04-09-2002, 08:54 PM

I really doubt it - he never mentions Estella once (though since Merry's thoughts aren't often shown to the reader he could be thinking about her as much as Sam thinks of Rosie) but if nothing else he'd have to mention her in "A Conspiracy Unmasked" when he decides to leave home and hare off into the wild with Frodo. And you can imagine the tongue-lashing that he would have returned to a year later if he had just up and left his wife like that. Facts about Merry's marriage and children are actually maddeningly sparse; we know he was married (family tree) and that he had at a minimum one son (the part in the Appendices with "Later Events Concerning Members of the Fellowship" which mentions Merry and Pippin giving over their goods and holdings to their sons, the clear implication being that Merry had at least one). My personal theory is that there was a fire at Brandy Hall sometime later so that a lot of family archives were destroyed, which would explain why the date of his marriage and the names of his children would be unknown - we'd only know they happened/existed at all by glancing references in other histories.

Birdland · 04-09-2002, 09:42 PM

Shoot, Merry comes riding back into town, lookin' fine in his "iron-mongery" and taller then the Bullroarer, and commences to save the Shire from certain destruction.

After all that he was probably beatin' off hobbit-lasses with a stick. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Estella was just the lucky one to land him. (She probably played hard-to-get.)

Kalimac · 04-09-2002, 09:50 PM

Yes, he and Pippin probably did not lack for hopeful young ladies gazing wistfully towards the windows of the house in Crickhollow... [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

OTOH Estella was Fredegar Bolger's sister, so she had the natural advantage of probably having known and possibly even liked Merry a good while before the whole thing ever happened. Merry would at least know that she was no hobbit-lass-come-lately, so to speak [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img].

Birdland · 04-09-2002, 10:55 PM

Quote:

OTOH Estella was Fredegar Bolger's sister...

Yeah, Kalimac. That's probably the only reason Merry would hang out with poor ol' Fatty. So he could get to know his sister. (Poor Fatty!)

Beatrice · 04-10-2002, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Yeah, Kalimac. That's probably the only reason Merry would hang out with poor ol' Fatty. So he could get to know his sister. (Poor Fatty!)

LOL! Anyhoo... but how could he have a son if in the family tree it didn't say that he had any kids whatsoever? And on all the major lotr sites I've ever been on, when I look at Merry's bio it says that he had no kids! Explain, please?

Kalimac · 04-10-2002, 08:36 PM

Beatrice, I don't know for absolute certain that Merry had any kids (OK, nobody except Tolkien knows that, and he can't tell us) but I'm basing the supposition off of a couple of things; first of all the family trees were not necessarily complete. Estella Bolger didn't even get added into them until the second or third edition, so presumably Tolkien "discovered" some further info on Merry between those printings that enabled him to add the marriage. This would suggest that information about Merry's personal life was fairly scanty (like I said in that previous post, maybe there was a fire which destroyed records, or something [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ) and subject to revision even after Estella was added in there.

Second of all, in Appendix B to ROTK, in "Later Events Concerning the Fellowship" for the year 1484, it says that "He [Merry] then took council with his friend the Thain, and soon after they handed over their goods and offices to their sons and rode away over the Sarn Ford, and they were not seen again in the Shire." Pippin of course had his son Faramir I, but the use of "their" is a pretty clear indication that Merry had a least one son, name unknown, and possibly more. So there's no indication of when Merry's child or children were born, or what their names were, but Tolkien must have deduced from side-references somewher else that they did in fact exist. You could say it's the fault of the Brandybucks for not keeping better records [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img].

OK, enough. Sorry, I'm not trying to be a lecturer, I just think it's an interesting discrepancy in the appendices (besides, I like Merry).

[Kalimac descends from soapbox].

04-07-2002, 12:58 PM	#1
Beatrice Pile O'Bones Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 16	A Question about Merry Okay, I know that Merry gets married to Estella Bolger, but when? In the appendices, it doesn't say when they're married, only that they are. I looked in the chronology thingy, and it never mentioned the marriage of Merry and Estella Bolger. I think they might've married before he went on the quest.

04-07-2002, 01:19 PM	#2
Fingo Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Over the river and through the woods (literally) Posts: 59	Possibly, but I don't think so. I think Merry would have mentioned him missing Estella or being married or something. I don't recall that he ever does. Plus, I don't think he was quite at the marrying age when he joined the Company. __________________ "We are raised to honor all the wrong explorers and discoverers- thieves planting flags, murderers carrying crosses. Let us at last praise the colonizers of dreams."

04-09-2002, 08:14 AM	#5
ElanorGamgee Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 314	I don't think Merry was married before the journey. He never mentions Estella, yet Sam mentions Rose twice, and they're not even married at the time. Plus, if he was married, I can't really see him running off unexpectedly for months with no explanation! And Merry and Pippin probably wouldn't live together for a while if Merry already had a wife and, presumably, a home. __________________ Soli Deo Gloria

04-09-2002, 08:54 PM	#6
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	I really doubt it - he never mentions Estella once (though since Merry's thoughts aren't often shown to the reader he could be thinking about her as much as Sam thinks of Rosie) but if nothing else he'd have to mention her in "A Conspiracy Unmasked" when he decides to leave home and hare off into the wild with Frodo. And you can imagine the tongue-lashing that he would have returned to a year later if he had just up and left his wife like that. Facts about Merry's marriage and children are actually maddeningly sparse; we know he was married (family tree) and that he had at a minimum one son (the part in the Appendices with "Later Events Concerning Members of the Fellowship" which mentions Merry and Pippin giving over their goods and holdings to their sons, the clear implication being that Merry had at least one). My personal theory is that there was a fire at Brandy Hall sometime later so that a lot of family archives were destroyed, which would explain why the date of his marriage and the names of his children would be unknown - we'd only know they happened/existed at all by glancing references in other histories. __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

04-09-2002, 09:50 PM	#8
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	Yes, he and Pippin probably did not lack for hopeful young ladies gazing wistfully towards the windows of the house in Crickhollow... [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] OTOH Estella was Fredegar Bolger's sister, so she had the natural advantage of probably having known and possibly even liked Merry a good while before the whole thing ever happened. Merry would at least know that she was no hobbit-lass-come-lately, so to speak [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]. __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

04-07-2002, 01:25 PM	#3
Beatrice Pile O'Bones Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 16	Actually he was. He was 36, if I calculated corectly- okay, he was born in 1382 and went on the quest in 1418, which makes him 36! And coming of age for hobbits is 33, so therefore it's possible that he was married. But you've got a good point- he would've mentioned missing her. But then again, Pippin was 28 and still, probably, living with his parents. Wouldn't he have mentioned missing them? But he didn't- so Merry didn't HAVE to mention missing Estella. But that's still a good point... but very confusing...

04-09-2002, 08:00 AM	#4
Orodhromeus Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Greece Posts: 106	Back from their journey, Pippin & Merry stay together for a while at Crickhollow. Considering that none other was mentioned living in Crickhollow apart from Fredegar Bolger, I think Merry was married after the return (and after Frodo's departure).

04-09-2002, 09:42 PM	#7
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,751	Shoot, Merry comes riding back into town, lookin' fine in his "iron-mongery" and taller then the Bullroarer, and commences to save the Shire from certain destruction. After all that he was probably beatin' off hobbit-lasses with a stick. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Estella was just the lucky one to land him. (She probably played hard-to-get.)

04-10-2002, 08:36 PM	#11
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	Beatrice, I don't know for absolute certain that Merry had any kids (OK, nobody except Tolkien knows that, and he can't tell us) but I'm basing the supposition off of a couple of things; first of all the family trees were not necessarily complete. Estella Bolger didn't even get added into them until the second or third edition, so presumably Tolkien "discovered" some further info on Merry between those printings that enabled him to add the marriage. This would suggest that information about Merry's personal life was fairly scanty (like I said in that previous post, maybe there was a fire which destroyed records, or something [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ) and subject to revision even after Estella was added in there. Second of all, in Appendix B to ROTK, in "Later Events Concerning the Fellowship" for the year 1484, it says that "He [Merry] then took council with his friend the Thain, and soon after they handed over their goods and offices to their sons and rode away over the Sarn Ford, and they were not seen again in the Shire." Pippin of course had his son Faramir I, but the use of "their" is a pretty clear indication that Merry had a least one son, name unknown, and possibly more. So there's no indication of when Merry's child or children were born, or what their names were, but Tolkien must have deduced from side-references somewher else that they did in fact exist. You could say it's the fault of the Brandybucks for not keeping better records [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]. OK, enough. Sorry, I'm not trying to be a lecturer, I just think it's an interesting discrepancy in the appendices (besides, I like Merry). [Kalimac descends from soapbox]. __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.