I'm sorry Mohram

I'm sorry for starting up the topic "Isn't Mohram stupid", its because you kept criticising me yesterday!
I am sorry if you are!

p.s What are your views on the book "Farmer Giles"? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

Who's Mohram?

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

Oh, Mhoram. I just saw your other topic.

Actually the best apology to Mhoram would be to finally be the person who can discuss the following topic:

Mhoram -
The account of the Reckoning of Time from The Annals of Aman from HoME X Part II says:
1 year of the Trees = 9.582 Sun Years

I have used this in all my calculations.

I have completed a Tale of Years for all 4 ages, here are some dates of importance.
(YT = Year of the Trees) (YS = Year of the Sun)


YT 1,050 Elves awake in Cuiviénen

YT 1,085 Orome discovers the Elves

YT 1,101 Elves summoned to Valinor

YT 1,102 First ambassadors arive in Valinor - Ingwe, Finwe, and Elwe

YT 1,104 Ambassadors return to Cuiviénen

YT 1,105 1st sundering of the Elves at Cuiviénen - Avari stay behind.

YT 1,110 2nd sundering of the Elves at Anduin - Teleri stay behind.

YT 1,115 Vanyar and Ñoldor enter Beleriand

YT 1,128 Teleri enter Beleriand

YT 1,362 Galadriel born

YT 1,492 Finwe slain

YT 1,500 YT time ends, YS begins

YS 502 Elwe slain

YS 590 First Age Ends

3,441 total YS in the Second Age

3,021 total YS in the Third Age


From this information I have come up with these figures:


Finwe slain 4,235 YS after Elves awake.

Elwe slain 4,813 YS after Elves awake.

Cirdan leaves M-E w/Ring bearers 11,363 YS after Elves awake.

Galadriel leaves M-E w/Cirdan at the age of 11,061

*NOTES*

"Before ever they came to Beleriand the Teleri had developed a craft of boat-making; first as rafts, and soon as light boats with paddles made in imitation of the water-birds upon the lakes near their first homes, and later on the Great Journey in crossing rivers, or especially during their long tarrying on the shores of the 'Sea of Rhun', where their ships became larger and stronger. But in all this work Cirdan had ever been the foremost and most inventive and skilful. [On the significance of the Sea of Rhun in the context of the Great Journey see XI.173-4.]" - HoME XII, Part II, Section XIII, Note 16

This shows that Cirdan was alive when the Teleri were at the Sea of Rhun, which would be between the year YT 1,104(When the ambassators return) and YT 1,110(When the Teleri stay behind at the Anduin). So we can come within 574 YS of his age when departing M-E.


There are only 498 YS between the waking of the Elves and the ambassadors going to Valinor, of which Elwe and Finwe were two, so we can come within atleast 450 YS of their exact age at death.


Please speak up if you can find any error in my work here, esp. in the givens I use which may have later renditions of which I am not aware (i.e. YT=YS ratio, dates of important events)

[Mhoram]

lol maril, you're the man. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

mungo, deeds not words, see you around.

[red]

This thread is further proof that Mhoram's criticisms were well-founded.

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

Mho, you are inspiring me to pick up the Silmarillion for the first time since reading it in 1983. I'm thinking of starting a chapter by chapter discussion thread for the benefit of the Newcomers forum. Care to join me, Bungo? I've read the LotR between 25 and 30 times (I lost count a couple years ago) but the Silm lacked the continuity of plot to draw me back to it again and again in the same way. However, if I read one more "who had the coolest, shinest ring" "who was the smartest elf" thread I will go stark raving mad...

[ March 17, 2002: Message edited by: Marileangorifurnimaluim ]

[Mhoram]

Farmer Giles was a fine little story, but nothing that holds an extended interest for me.

[Lush]

Mhoram-Ooh. Feel the chill.
Maril-Yeah, I understood all that. And as a matter of fact...Ok, no need to bluff. Am too tired.

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

I suspect Farmer Giles was very much a writing exercise for Tolkien. A trial run in the type of character and plot development he enjoyed, as opposed to the academic writing style he used most. You get cobwebby writing papers all the time. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

Lush, help yourself to one of those green bottles of yours and get some sleep. You've been tired all weekend. Someone once told me after a long test and study and debate period in Shedra (buddhist monastic college) "I think I broke my mind..." [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Mhoram]

That'd be great maril, and I fully empathize with the "Who's the coolest" thread thing. I'll be around to help/contribute if you go for it.

[Lush]

Lush, help yourself to one of those green bottles of yours and get some sleep. You've been tired all weekend.

Yeeeah, it's actually the green bottles, or, rather, the contents of the green bottles, that have wreaked havoc on my weekend, and turned it into three days of all sorts of depravity. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] The moral police on this site would not be pleased.

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

But the mischievious Maril, who reads all kinds of depraved subtext in the holy canon of Tolkien out of sheer flip frivolity, would be highly amused, no doubt. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

In that case I recommend these white pills - no, no! - they're called "Advil."

[Kalimac]

Marilea, that's such a basic topic - we could talk that one out in two seconds as opposed to doing really deep stuff like spamming the cr*p out of once-interesting threads. (I'm kidding! I'm kidding!) Actually I just bought the Silmarillion the other day, so far I've only read the tale of Beren and Luthien but intend to finish it as quickly as may be so I can finally develop opinions on topics like these. Reading those threads is sort of like listening to a language you don't fully know - it sends you back to your grammars and vocabulary books so you'll be able to join in.

Lush, I don't know about moral police...but I'm with you all the way. I didn't spend the weekend in the company of green bottles but after being dragged around by a couple of aunts for nine solid hours yesterday doing wedding shopping, I could really, really have used a few. I still needed the Advil, though, unfortunately.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Marileangorifurnimaluim

But the mischievious Maril, who reads all kinds of depraved subtext in the holy canon of Tolkien out of sheer flip frivolity, would be highly amused, no doubt. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

In that case I recommend these white pills - no, no! - they're called "Advil."

People could really do that back in the day? And get away with it? It's amazing how much bigger the text seems with some mushrooms, taken from the right side.