The hypothetical triumph of Melkor - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Meoshi · 03-22-2003, 06:31 PM

I hope this doesn't fall into the accursed category of What-If questions.

Let's suppose Melkor had won the War of Wrath. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] I don't know how he could do that(perhaps by releasing the dragons in the first place, instead of as a last resort)

If the host of the Eldar and Maiar were defeated, would Morgoth be able to conquer all of ME? Or would the Valar just be able to rebody their lost warriors and try again?

What confuses me is, if the latter were true, then in the true outcome of the War of Wrath, The hosts of the West had no casualties- after all, all of their dead were simply rebodied in Aman shortly afterwards.

[ March 22, 2003: Message edited by: Meoshi ]

**The Saucepan Man** · 03-22-2003, 06:49 PM

Hmm, good point Meoshi.

If the host of the Valar had been defeated, would Mandos simply have been able to let out from his Halls all those who had died in battle, so as to enable a new army to be built?

I suspect that, in the time that it would have taken to rebuild a force strong enough to challenge Melkor, Melkor would himself had had the opportunity to strengthen his forces. And so, victory in a second battle might not have been guaranteed. But then, could the Valar have just kept attacking, rebuilding their armies when defeated, until Melkor was finally defeated?

Really, you would have thought that Melkor should have taken the pretty strong hint that Eru gave him during the Music of the Ainur that he could never win. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Tar-Palantir · 03-22-2003, 08:55 PM

Melkor would not have escaped without injury himself I'd guess. Consequently, the slithery and oh so dastardly Sauron would have stabbed Melkor in the back at an opportune moment. Quite rightly he would then flee East and South to the mountains of Mordor, "fleeing the scene" as it were.

Then Mandos of course releases the Valar and Maiar that perished (if indeed they were in the halls of Mandos). All of the perished kings of the Eldar would be returned as well by decree of Eru for the good of the entire race of Firstborn, so they could lead their people and bring tidings from Aman of the rebirth of the Kings and Queens of the Valar. And the Eldar would sing in joy and wonder at their returned Kings "We praise you! We praise you with great praise!"

The Edain would not be so lucky, many lords would be lost, thankfully men are like a virus (impossible to kill) and the surviving Edain would find new leaders, and as is the way with men they would breed like rabbits.

So you see? Everything would have turned out just the same. The Edain would still get Númenor. The Eldar would still be free of Morgoth. The Valar would still be praised with great praise. And Sauron would still end up in Mordor. Everyone East of the Ered Luin would be unaffected by the whole mess and be none the wiser.

The only difference I can see is that Sauron might have two Silmarils on his crown. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[ March 22, 2003: Message edited by: Tar-Palantir ]

03-22-2003, 06:31 PM	#1
Meoshi Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Atop the peak of Kalormë Posts: 163	The hypothetical triumph of Melkor I hope this doesn't fall into the accursed category of What-If questions. Let's suppose Melkor had won the War of Wrath. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] I don't know how he could do that(perhaps by releasing the dragons in the first place, instead of as a last resort) If the host of the Eldar and Maiar were defeated, would Morgoth be able to conquer all of ME? Or would the Valar just be able to rebody their lost warriors and try again? What confuses me is, if the latter were true, then in the true outcome of the War of Wrath, The hosts of the West had no casualties- after all, all of their dead were simply rebodied in Aman shortly afterwards. [ March 22, 2003: Message edited by: Meoshi ]

03-22-2003, 06:49 PM	#2
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	Hmm, good point Meoshi. If the host of the Valar had been defeated, would Mandos simply have been able to let out from his Halls all those who had died in battle, so as to enable a new army to be built? I suspect that, in the time that it would have taken to rebuild a force strong enough to challenge Melkor, Melkor would himself had had the opportunity to strengthen his forces. And so, victory in a second battle might not have been guaranteed. But then, could the Valar have just kept attacking, rebuilding their armies when defeated, until Melkor was finally defeated? Really, you would have thought that Melkor should have taken the pretty strong hint that Eru gave him during the Music of the Ainur that he could never win. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

03-22-2003, 08:55 PM	#3
Tar-Palantir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: napa valley, ca Posts: 496	Melkor would not have escaped without injury himself I'd guess. Consequently, the slithery and oh so dastardly Sauron would have stabbed Melkor in the back at an opportune moment. Quite rightly he would then flee East and South to the mountains of Mordor, "fleeing the scene" as it were. Then Mandos of course releases the Valar and Maiar that perished (if indeed they were in the halls of Mandos). All of the perished kings of the Eldar would be returned as well by decree of Eru for the good of the entire race of Firstborn, so they could lead their people and bring tidings from Aman of the rebirth of the Kings and Queens of the Valar. And the Eldar would sing in joy and wonder at their returned Kings "We praise you! We praise you with great praise!" The Edain would not be so lucky, many lords would be lost, thankfully men are like a virus (impossible to kill) and the surviving Edain would find new leaders, and as is the way with men they would breed like rabbits. So you see? Everything would have turned out just the same. The Edain would still get Númenor. The Eldar would still be free of Morgoth. The Valar would still be praised with great praise. And Sauron would still end up in Mordor. Everyone East of the Ered Luin would be unaffected by the whole mess and be none the wiser. The only difference I can see is that Sauron might have two Silmarils on his crown. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [ March 22, 2003: Message edited by: Tar-Palantir ] __________________ History shows again and again How nature points up the folly of men Go, go, Godzilla!