The Departure of Frodo

[Rosa Underhill]

While net-surfing for my research paper, I came across this interesting-looking academic article about why Frodo left the Shire for Tol Eressea. I thought some of you guys might be interested since Frodo's leaving has raised a good many questions and protestations. Enjoy!

Frodo's Departure

*sniff* I always loved the part where Frodo left for the gray havens! It was always so sad!
"I have a wound that will never heal"

[piosenniel]

"Being healed," replied Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel, "is when the wound is no longer there."

very good article!! thanks for the link.

[Pips]

A fantastic article, that points out much of what some seem to over look.(thinks back to the "Frodo was a Failer" Point)

[Bramblerose Gamgee-Took]

Uh, I might sound a bit dumb saying this, but what are The Grey Havens? I was really confused as the end of ROTK because I didnt know whether that meant he died or just went somewhere [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

Yes. The article is quite right. It is just like that.

Bramblerose, the Grey Havens is the port from which the Elven ships set sail.

[Kalimac]

Very good article. I had always felt that there would have been no other "right" ending for LOTR (that Frodo staying, being happy and living out a normal lifespan would have been forced somehow) but she put it more succinctly and with rather more evidence to throw behind it than "I don't know, it just feels right."

Creepy point about Saruman and his "I merely foretell", though. He may have been the straw that broke things, though I hope not. That would make the ending even more sad, if such a thing is possible...

[goldwine]

Thanks Rosa, good article. It covers all of the reasons that Frodo had to leave. His pilgrimage was completed and nothing, especially himself, was the same. I always felt it the right ending, too. It would have minimized the impact of his mission if it was otherwise. The bittersweet ending always gets to me!

[ March 18, 2002: Message edited by: goldwine ]

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

Kalimac, interesting points all. Yes, Saruman's remark was well-aimed, but not the final straw.

I actually feel it was Sam's marriage to Rosie that was Frodo's final undoing. Bilbo age and departure was the final push out the door.

Sam was the only hobbit Frodo could have confided in, whom Frodo would have felt understood. He had carried the ring. He had seen and experienced much of what Frodo had. There was no other hobbit Frodo would have confided in.

Rosie and the marriage and children distracted Sam at a time Frodo needed him most, and compounded his sense of failure and disconnectedness by sheer contrast with Sam's robust aliveness. This isolated Frodo more than anything, and he lost his one tie between his past life in the Shire and the experiences in Mordor and who he became thereafter.

See his sense of failure, which already had a grip on him: if Sam could resume life in the Shire, then why couldn't he?

"Of course, you can't be away long anymore," said Frodo, a bit wistfully.

He envied Sam, and felt guilty about that, so much so that he hid his envy and his pain from Sam, and isolated himself even more than the circumstances did. He feared his burden was so overwhelming he might drag Sam down with it. So in the end, in that year, he cut himself off from Sam, long before he went away.

I think Frodo understood how important a connection to his past Sam was, and this was why he had Sam move into Bag End with Rosie. It was his last attempt to keep his friend. If he were his old self, not borne down by loss and depression, he would have told Sam "You know, Sam, you and Rosie could hold off another a year or two, couldn't you? I.. I think I could really use your help here at BagEnd. Not too long. Just a year or so, while we get settled." Smiles. "Nothing wrong with long courtships, right Sam?" But due to his own feeling of failure, he didn't feel he deserved it enough to ask.

[ March 19, 2002: Message edited by: Marileangorifurnimaluim ]

[Joy]

Excellent article! I have always thought about the last words of Saurman. I didn't think that anyone else caught that. The Scripture says that life and death are in the power of the tongue. The things that we speak and that others speak over our lives, if we accept them, can bring ruin into our lives.

[Birdland]

That essay was incredible. It makes the connection most readers feel for Frodo even stronger; making him seem even more "human".

Since Frodo always came across as rather introspective for a Hobbit, even before his journey, it seems even more natural that he would suffer such complex emotions over the outcome of his quest.

Makes me wonder if the role of Ring Bearer had fallen on Merry or Pippen instead, would they have borne the after-effects better?

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

Birdland, Merry or Pippin may have reached out to others and reconnected as Frodo did not, true, but I shudder to think of Pippin's bright spirit crushed by the ring, and feel Merry would have yielded as Boromir to the lure of the ring (later, tis true, but he had a love of grandure). They both would have failed. Remember, despite Frodo's feeling of failure, he did not.

No comments on my theory that Sam's marriage to Rosie cut the last hope that Frodo would remain?

[Birdland]

Just read it, and yes, that would have had an effect on him. Seeing Sam able to embrace marriage and his greater role in the affairs of the Shire must have been bittersweet for Frodo, and increased his sense of isolation even more.

Having lived with someone who suffered similar problems, I understand Frodo's disconnectedness. I don't think your average Hobbit maid would have been up to dealing with a "post-Quest" Frodo.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Another intriguing question--how would Frodo have responded to Tol Eressea once he actually got there? It is likely that he would have received more attention and recognition from the Elves than he had gotten from most of his Hobbit neighbors. And he certainly would have enjoyed being near Bilbo. The roles between the two of them would have been reversed. No longer would Bilbo be the father figure. Given Bilbo's advanced age and the wandering of his mind, Frodo would have had to take more responsibility in their relationship. Indeed, because Frodo care deeply for Bilbo, he would have been placed in the position of being the loving and giving caretaker.

Maybe that is exactly what Frodo needed: to have someone he loved need him and rely on him. No Sam around to bail his friend out, so Frodo would have had to exert himself more. He would have had to reach out in a way that wasn't possible when he was living with Sam and Rosie.

And then the next question, what about dying? Tolkien tells us that mortals in Tol Eressa have the choice of selecting when and where they will die. (Kind of like what Aragorn did in Middle Earth) I can't help feeling that Bilbo probably reached that decision before Frodo so, for a while, Frodo might have been left behind to wait. For surely, Frodo would have waited for his friend Sam to come sailing in after Rosie's death. There would have been a time for sharing and healing between the two of them and then perhaps they decided to go on together to find out just what was out there beyond the circles of this world.

Anyone else with any ideas on what might have happened in Tol Eressa?

[Kalimac]

Mmm...debate. Marilea, that's a really good point about Sam's marriage being something that would make Frodo feel even more cut off. It does get emphasized what a dividing factor that is, especially when Frodo has his illness at the time of Elanor's birth, but conceals it because "Sam had other things to think about." Honestly, even though Sam probably had an extremely hectic March 25th as it was, you can't see him just brushing off Frodo's illness, and Frodo knew him well enough by this point to realize it. You're right, it's as if Frodo felt he didn't deserve the attention - the "Why should I always be complaining to other people?" mentality. Sam doubtless doesn't see his marriage as getting in the way at all, but Frodo is almost deliberately making the gap wider than it has to be, and it does look he does it out of guilt; fearing to take too much of Sam away from Rosie and the children, he ends up giving up his companionship altogether.

One factor in Frodo's feeling alienated by the marriage is that he doesn't seem to really be the marrying type himself; he does seem like much more of a natural homebody than Bilbo does (taking five months to leave Bag End instead of ten minutes, as in "The Hobbit" [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]) and if the Ring had never existed would probably have ended up as the kindly bachelor uncle-figure to Sam's children and the local eccentric to everyone else [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] (well, you know how it is with those Brandybucks!). But of course Sam would not have the same place in his life, and his life would still be his own, not torn away from him by Fate. But he did get the Ring, and if he was unlikely to marry before that then after he returned to the Shire there was no way on earth, there just wasn't enough of him left emotionally. Seeing Sam marry and get into the thick of Shire life would have been like seeing a textbook layout of all the things that Frodo would have had a hard time doing even in the best of times, and was wholly incapable of now (and Birdland, you're right - I've been in the same situation as you, and it's terrible after a while how little you can do, and how much really needs to be done). It would have made him feel like he was incapable of being anything except a perpetual outsider. In which case one can see why he would choose to cut the cords; painful at the time but better for everyone in the end, including Sam - at least that's how Frodo would see it.

If Merry or Pippin had gotten it - well, we've seen how Pippin reacted to the Palantir, if he had the Ring I can easily see him struggling on for a while but giving up in despair on the borders of Emyn Muil; running himself exhausted looking for a way down and never thinking things through, and eventually going to sleep for good. As for Merry - well, as much as it pains me to say it about the original Kalimac, while he was far more set and intent to the purpose, I can't see him ever leaving the Cracks of Doom without the Ring. Once his mind was fixed on having it, he probably would have jumped in after Gollum before letting it go (this is of course assuming that M & P would befriend Gollum the same way instead of simply stabbing him the first chance they got).

All that said though (whew...I do go on sometimes...) Saruman's "prophecy" was probably a sort of bitter thought in the back of his mind; a little stab of poison that helped alter his perspective on Sam's marriage et al a little bit - removing some of the sweet and leaving the bitter. Of course he would know Saruman for the old fraud he was by that time, but that never really helps. How many of you have been told something which was cruel and low and completely vicious and still been unable to get it out of your head for the longest time? And former boyfriends and junior high classmates don't have Saruman's voice, after all.

OK, apologies for the lecture. I do hope it made sense.

[Airedae]

Rosa,

Thanx so much for that article. That sort answered alot of my questions and if it did not it healed alittle of the distress i felt over it when i was younger. I understand his departure alot better. i had asked a question in another topic about frodo leaving. i dont know if this topic was made due to my questions but if it was thanx..if not, than its still something i appreciate reading. thanx so much! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Jessica Jade]

I cannot thank you enough for posting that incredible article.It answered many questions i had. The ending to LOTR could not have been better. It was, for me, a heart-wrenchingly sad ending, because of the sacrifice and how things just couln't be the way they used to be anymore, all because of the evil of the Ring. The affects of evil were chilling, yet incredibly sad...but if Frodo did become normal again after his ordeal, the ending WouLD, indeed have seemed cheesy and false and too "happily ever after." Reading the last chapter made me want to weep for innocense and "paradise" lost.

[ March 20, 2002: Message edited by: Jessica Jade ]

[Rosa Underhill]

Wow, this is incredible! I never had thought about any of these things before now and I must say, I agree with you all. It's simply amazing what can happen when you're just doing research for a paper... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

I'm glad this article has helped so many of you and I'm loving all the ideas and intellectual discussion it's brining out. Keep talking, everyone!

[Amarinth]

hi rosa!

i'll join in the chorus of thank yous for that superb article! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] that was truly an amazing vivisection of frodo's last days, and i'm glad to see it poignantly laid down that way for all to see and appreciate. frodo's sacrifice has always been underrated in my opinion (i'm fascinated by sacrifices in lotr, i've a separate thread on it), if you do check out what aspects of lotr are the most talked about. the perspective from modern warfare and its psychology makes me think again about tolkien's innermost feelings about the dimensions of sacrifice and loss that perhaps his experience with war gave him. his astute but subtle portrayal of frodo as a suffering trauma victim, as this article has shown, has always made me think that tolkien himself suffered a great deal internally from the war.

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every man's life is a path to the truth -- hesse